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  1. #1
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    Default Brush Truck Idea 2008 Grant

    Looking to replace a 1974 5-ton military brush truck. The truck we are specing is a 4 wheel drive International, 1000 gal. stainless steel tank, 20 ton hydraulic winch. Also included a rear electric dump valve. We speced it to include removing the Cafs system and bumper mounted turret from our current 5-Ton and installing them on the new truck. Price about $166,000.The Cafs and bumper turret were awarded on Fire Act Grants.
    What is everyone's idea on the chances of getting funded. Has anyone has a similar truck funded.


  2. #2
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    For those with the need for wildland urban interface trucks it's a better option than plain pickup chassis type brush units. Lots of those went out this year, worked a few of that type myself. Makes sense in the right situation.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranburne View Post
    Looking to replace a 1974 5-ton military brush truck. The truck we are specing is a 4 wheel drive International, 1000 gal. stainless steel tank, 20 ton hydraulic winch. Also included a rear electric dump valve. We speced it to include removing the Cafs system and bumper mounted turret from our current 5-Ton and installing them on the new truck. Price about $166,000.The Cafs and bumper turret were awarded on Fire Act Grants.
    What is everyone's idea on the chances of getting funded. Has anyone has a similar truck funded.
    What size pump are you looking at?

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    The pump is a CET 35 CAFS system we are currently using. We looked at a larger system, but that was going to cost about $35,000 more. The system we now use was bought with Grant funds, so we are going to transfer it. I have only got one quote, just trying to get an idea if it is something we want to try for. Our other trucks are too new or in to good of shape to try to get a grant on.
    2000 Engine, 1991 Engine, 1979 reserve engine, 1989 Tanker, 1989 Air Truck. Both engines and tanker are low mileage. Air truck is in the worst condition, but I know no chance of getting it funded.
    Last edited by Ranburne; 12-20-2007 at 03:50 PM.

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    We applied for a similar truck but a bit more money and was denied this year. Looking for a GMC5500 with roughly 750 pump and 300 water. Foam isn't a must but would be nice. Simple rescue type body on the rear and a front bumper turret. What has been some award amounts for similar trucks like this?

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    $125-$160k depending on 2/4 door, foam, etc. Closer to the high end of that with 750gpm pump, especially if you're looking for pump and roll. The one we did for ENG121 (Mark) was 4 door Int'l, 500gpm, 300gal, and CAFS for $165k and that should be announced soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SMNFirefighter View Post
    We applied for a similar truck but a bit more money and was denied this year. Looking for a GMC5500 with roughly 750 pump and 300 water. Foam isn't a must but would be nice. Simple rescue type body on the rear and a front bumper turret. What has been some award amounts for similar trucks like this?
    At what point were you DJed; the computer or after Peer Review?

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    I still have a brush truck app in the mix. I know how much of an uphill battle getting a vehicle is but I was wondering what the chances are at this point. I know much of the money has been allocated and there aren't that many vehicles granted but to be in it at this point with no word is kind of interesting. Do they keep the vehicle grants seperate from the op's grants or are they all in one pile. I know they ususally keep enough grants to fund 200% but does that apply to vehicles also. I honestly don't think my chances are that good if I have yet to hear anything.

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    The 200% applies to all categories since each has their own pot of money. After computer DJs everyone in limbo is at the 50-50 mark.

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    Well we received our DJ in our email on 8/16/07 if that helps you out. I know this might be pushing the limits a little much but I'm trying to propose this as a initial attack/brush truck. This will replace our current brush truck but yet give us a bit more capability with a greater pump size. This would roll on all fire reports and serve as also a smaller second rescue. What is everyones thoughts on this? I think we requested $197,500. This was what we were quoted for estimates from two companies.

  11. #11
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    Didn't make it past the computer then, but doesn't mean it wasn't worthy and obviously no statement on the narrative since it wasn't read.

    Since the stat side wasn't competitive hard to tell with no other numbers showing here other than price. Which seems high for that spec, especially on a 5500. I have a few folks that were well under that on larger chassis. Most on that type of chassis (5500/F550) were below $140k even with the rescue body on the back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SMNFirefighter View Post
    We applied for a similar truck but a bit more money and was denied this year. Looking for a GMC5500 with roughly 750 pump and 300 water. Foam isn't a must but would be nice. Simple rescue type body on the rear and a front bumper turret. What has been some award amounts for similar trucks like this?
    Here is a stupid question, but hey I am known for them. With a 750gpm pump and a 300 gal tank, what is this considered? Is it a pumper or classified as a pumper according to the PG, or is it an initial attack?

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    It appears that anything less than a 500gal tank falls under initial/quick attack, but most of it depends on what you pick in the dropdown since that's left up to us to decide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imafireman View Post
    Here is a stupid question, but hey I am known for them. With a 750gpm pump and a 300 gal tank, what is this considered? Is it a pumper or classified as a pumper according to the PG, or is it an initial attack?
    That was the same thought I was having, hence the question on when the DJ arrived.

    Per the PG:

    DHS assesses all vehicles with similar functions when assessing the number of vehicles a department possesses within a particular type. For example, the “pumper” category includes: pumpers, engines, pumper/tankers (apparatus that carries a minimum of 300 gallons of water and has a pump with a capacity to pump a minimum of 750 gallons per minute), rescue-pumpers, quints (with aerials less than 76 feet in length), and urban interface vehicles (Type I).
    My feeling is the request fell into this catergory, now the average age of similar apparatus comes into play. There are other factors that are involved with stats etc., but I'm thinking this had a part in the overall denial also.

  15. #15
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    Default Rather than start a new thread.......

    Our department has an 84 engine, a 94 engine and an 08 to be delivered in October (not bought with AFG funds). We're going for a brush/quick attack to replace our 83 converted military truck with a skid unit. Will the average age of my engines be factored in against my brush truck app?

    Ben

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    Yes, but primary comparison is same type vehicle. "Hurts" to have the new one compared with someone that doesn't but pumper is priority 1 for AFG because it's Priority 1 for everyone so buying one to make sure you're not left hanging is a solid argument on why you did it. Shouldn't hurt in the narrative either.

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    Hi guys, my company is looking to apply for a brush unit. We currently have a 1986 Chevy p/u with a 250gpm skid unit and 400gallon tank that has been issued to us from the PA Dept of Forestry. They are talking about removing it because of it's age but they don't have similar vehicles to give us. We are a suburban/rural area that is part of the forestry's team that is PA 110 certified and responds in 4 counties. We also have a large area of coverage with our first due that is considered protected farmland by the FDA and a large State park and wetlands area. What direction do we take to aquire a replacement. And do we have a chance with AFG. We do have a 2004 pumper and I know that may hurt us if we look for a WUI unit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montco65 View Post
    Hi guys, my company is looking to apply for a brush unit. We currently have a 1986 Chevy p/u with a 250gpm skid unit and 400gallon tank that has been issued to us from the PA Dept of Forestry. They are talking about removing it because of it's age but they don't have similar vehicles to give us. We are a suburban/rural area that is part of the forestry's team that is PA 110 certified and responds in 4 counties. We also have a large area of coverage with our first due that is considered protected farmland by the FDA and a large State park and wetlands area. What direction do we take to aquire a replacement. And do we have a chance with AFG. We do have a 2004 pumper and I know that may hurt us if we look for a WUI unit.
    The first issue is your classification. Have you submitted an AFG grant application in the past? If so, what were you classified as rural or suburban? Rural a brush truck is Priority 1, Suburban is now Priority 2 with no real chance since Priority 1's are the only grants being funded.

    There are a number of factors that are taken into account during computer scoring with ave. age of the fleet being one. The other is the number of like vehicles which in this case you have only 1. Higher priority go towards those departments with few or none of the types requested. If you are rural, the arguments you have listed will be great ammo in the narrative.

  19. #19
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    We are listed in AFG as suburban. I took over for someone last year and submitted 3 grants. Got shot down for SCBA but have the Safer and Fire Prevention grant still in the mix. We technically don't own the field truck, Dept of Forestry does. We just house it and use it.

    How is the classification set up. We have about 35% of our run area considered rural (small density population and no active water supply mostly well water)

  20. #20
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    It's done by a computer score judged by your population and first run district. If they classify you as Suburban, you gotta stick with that -- but like Bugle said, no real chance of a Brush truck being funded to a Suburban department at this time.

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