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Thread: Scott Scba

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLY4420 View Post
    neiowa,

    I don't know if you're specifically referencing Scott or generalizing, but many times like 5alarmcooker has stated, I have been denied quotes/bids from a dealer outside of our area for certain stuff.
    I got into one of those regional things with Scott on our packs from last year. I'm not a fan of the people that service our region, so I sought out another bid. The guys I talked to were happy to bid after I explained the situation to them (that I wouldn't buy from the guys that service our area).

    After they recieved the bid, I got word the regional Scott rep wasn't happy because he got a complaint from the company in our area. I wrote a quick letter nicely (well, as nicely as I could) stating that we would not deal with the regional distributor and that if wanted, he could give us a full refund and pick the packs up and we'd go with a competitor. I haven't heard anything since in regards to the matter.

    I will note, I'm not the only guy in my area that won't work with that particular company. MSA has made a fortune in our area because of it (which was also explained in my letter). Another department is working on the same thing I did for his grant, but he is calling Scott before he does it. I'll admit, I should have first, but at the time I didn't think to do so. Ever since, if I have an issue I go to company headquarters as a courtesy.


  2. #42
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    I am another department in Catch22's area, that will NOT ever buy Scott until they get a different company to service and supply airpacks here. (SCOTT REP - ARE YOU READING THIS?)

  3. #43
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    Certain sales reps are under the mistaken idea that they are the only game in town. It never hurts to take them down a peg or three in their attitudes when they receive a loud phone call from the factory wanting to know what the he!! is going on with their territory.

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    I would like to hear how this works out for Poliseno. If I recall correctly, we (another department in NJ) were not able to obtain a quote from a SCOTT distributor outside of NJ. It wasn't until we told the SCOTT rep we were going with another manufacturer, they started their Monty Hall impression and started saying, "Let's make a deal!" It was too late, and we went with another manufacturer. If SCOTT does not smarten up, they are going to lose a lot of business.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLY4420 View Post
    neiowa,

    I don't know if you're specifically referencing Scott or generalizing, but many times like 5alarmcooker has stated, I have been denied quotes/bids from a dealer outside of our area for certain stuff.
    Scott. Well known the two major brands will compete head to head with promotional pricing (or free 2nd cylinder). Talk to the vendor you WANT to purchase from FIRST so he can get you the bid/spec you're looking for.

    Don't know who the guys in Mo are talking about, but I'm pretty sure there is at least one state/regional distributor of Scott everywhere in the US. There is also a jumbo size distributor of Scott that operates in at least 40 states (who my FD purchased our Scott NxG2 from). And at least one other distributor that has nationwide GSA bids/contract for Scott.

    You need to think about who is going to do your maintenance and annual function test. Freelance contractor (or train someone to do in house)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JD1234 View Post
    I would like to hear how this works out for Poliseno. If I recall correctly, we (another department in NJ) were not able to obtain a quote from a SCOTT distributor outside of NJ. It wasn't until we told the SCOTT rep we were going with another manufacturer, they started their Monty Hall impression and started saying, "Let's make a deal!" It was too late, and we went with another manufacturer. If SCOTT does not smarten up, they are going to lose a lot of business.

    I will let you know how we make out. Also want SCBA did you go with? How do you like it?

  7. #47
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    Poliseno, we went with Draeger. We have not received the packs yet. As you will find out here, many people have a very strong opinions on brands, particularly negative opinions against anything not SCOTT. See this one, for example:

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=78879

    Our Department did a thorough evaluation of several brands (SCOTT, MSA, Survivair and Draeger) and Draeger was our unanimous choice, and I don't think SCOTT was second.

    One thing you should do when you deal with vendors, and I have a feeling you may deal with the same vendor we did for SCOTT, is tell them that under no circumstances will you purchase the packs (full pack, with integrated pass and spare bottle) if they don't come in at $5,000.00 and under. We thought we made that clear during our process, and we were surprised to hear from several vendors who claimed they didn't know about the $5,000.00 limit. Makes me want to go out and start selling SCBAs to put the clueless out of business.

  8. #48
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    Well if you checked pricing for all manufacturers you'd find you wouldn't be selling them under $5k either. Everyone had recent price increases so won't be finding the $5k limit for 2008 if DHS does a market research.

    I don't take issue with anyone's choice of brand, I've worn a lot of different brands and never had an issue with any of them. But that doesn't mean that low bid is the answer if it isn't put together right. Low bid built the Space Shuttles. Also doesn't mean that the highest $ is the highest quality either. Evaluation is the best way to make the decision, especially on something you're going to have for 15 years.

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    I should add our evaluations were done in the absence of the committee knowing the prices or bid information. It was based on the committee's evaluation of the SCBAs. It turned out the committee's choice was also the best bid.

  10. #50
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    That's the way it should be done. Ideally evaluations are done before bids are done, or at the same time using different people. Even better, do them before you even apply.

    Just out of curiousity, Draeger hasn't passed the test yet for 2007 according to SEI (www.seinet.org). Did they give a timeline for passing? Still only showing ISI, MSA, Sperion (Survivair), and both Scotts as compliant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    That's the way it should be done. Ideally evaluations are done before bids are done, or at the same time using different people. Even better, do them before you even apply.

    Just out of curiousity, Draeger hasn't passed the test yet for 2007 according to SEI (www.seinet.org). Did they give a timeline for passing? Still only showing ISI, MSA, Sperion (Survivair), and both Scotts as compliant.
    We recently went through the same evaluation process. We brought in the same 4 brands of packs and our evaluators preferred the Draeger pack. Draeger thought they would have their 2007 cert nailed down by the end of January. Now it is a day to day thing. My Chief had a conference call scheduled today to talk to them about the status. I felt that one of the things that may have affected the evaluation is that we have been using Draeger for 20 years. The guys threw the pack on and every thing felt familiar, but better. The other packs they had to go through orientation on the controls for each of the packs and never felt really comfortable.

    Scott was our number 2. If Draeger doesn't come through with the letter in the next couple months, we will be switching to Scott.

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    Just remember an estimate or a promise of when they will pass testing and become certified can get you into trouble. An APR manufacturer I know of promised my employer they were positively reviewed and would be getting their cert "before the end of the year" Now, almost two full years later, they are STILL not certified and their product has been pulled from further testing. We had to go out and spend a boat load more money to replace these non-compliant items and now are trying to get rid of them. The manufacturer won't take them back because they have been issued out, opened and inventoried (two full years ago) and we're out the money.

    SO: the moral of the story is - if it is not in writing, it didn't happen. If they don't have the cert when you place the order, assume they won't get it. What happens if, by chance, you order and receive the packs and then they don't get the cert? AFG funds spent on non-compliant equipment - they might require you to pay them back: you'd be left holding the bag...

    My suggestion - if you want those packs and can wait to order them until they actually have the hot little paper in hand, wait. If you need to place the order now - buy one that has the cert: why risk loosing the funds?

  13. #53
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    Per Presidential Directive #5 grant money can't be spent on non-NFPA certified equipment, and per NFPA until the certificate is issued by the testing agency a pack isn't compliant until that happens. So they can't assemble any packs until the test is passed. You can order but make sure that nothing happens until they are passed. Also check your bid spec to make sure you didn't have a delivery requirement. If they haven't passed yet you have a delay until they can build a pack from that date since they aren't allowed to manufacture anything until the cert is out. So if you have a set delivery date and you're within 30 days I doubt anyone could get something through the assembly line that quickly. If they can, great, no problems. If not, you'd have to do something else, either rebid, or award #2.

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    We were awarded the grant in January.

    We haven't spent any money or awarded any bid yet.

    We figure we can afford to give them a couple months to see what happens.

    The plan is order packs May 1st. If Draeger has the NFPA certificate in hand, we will order Draeger. If they don't have it yet, we will order Scott.

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    Yes, you have plenty of time to wait it out. Those awarded back in July/August are running out of time though. No extensions will be granted on pack because of waiting on a vendor to pass the test, already heard that come down. Since something exists that meets the standard we don't have an argument according to wait on a brand name. Hopefully they get it done soon, same with the ALF bankruptcy. Too much other stuff to worry about than having to handle more admin issues.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by kd7fds View Post
    We were awarded the grant in January.

    We haven't spent any money or awarded any bid yet.

    We figure we can afford to give them a couple months to see what happens.

    The plan is order packs May 1st. If Draeger has the NFPA certificate in hand, we will order Draeger. If they don't have it yet, we will order Scott.

    Just curious on the bid.

    1) Was this a formal bid process for the SCBA?

    2) If so, how is it that Draeger's bid was not disqualified for not being NFPA compliant?

    3) You stated the bid has not been awarded. Typically, a bid has an expiration date if not accepted. Do you believe Scott will honor their bid 5 months from now?

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    1. Yes
    2. Bid Spec was written that upon delivery the pack had to be NFPA compliant.
    3. We have talked to the Scott Rep and they are willing to honor the bid.

    Heck, the department is a Draeger department and wanted Draeger to be able to compete, so they wrote the spec to give Draeger a chance to show us their pack. The bid was also written as a performance specification. The actual hands on evaluation had a higher weight in the scoring than price. 3 packs (Draeger, Scott, MSA) were within $200 per unit of each other. The Survivair Pack was almost $6500

    I did feel the evaluation of the packs was very fair. We had 15 people evaluate the different packs. No one knew the prices of the packs except the Chief. Each person was given a set of criteria to judge that was identical for each pack, comfort, weight, controls, donning procedures, changing an air tank, basic cleaning, how understandable they were over the radio. We also set up an obstacle course where they had to crawl, climb a ladder, drag a hose, go through entanglements.

    Each person completed all the different tests using each of the 4 packs. The order each person wore the packs was randomized. Each vendor had the oppurunity in the two weeks leading up to the test to hold a 3 hour training session on their pack with the evaluators. The local Survivair Rep did not bother to hold a training session.

    We had a lot of faith that we were going to finally get these packs this year. We spent 4 months developing our plan

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    Cool Big Brother is Listening

    After posting the other day of our bid opening price, and then mentioning the awarded distributer, I was talking to the distributer the next day and he had been contacted by the corporate office, good or bad I'm not sure, but they are obviously watvhing theis forum. So HELLO!! and welcome to the party!

  19. #59
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    Well that's just upper mgmt. The real Big Brother monitors these forums also.

  20. #60
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    kd7fds, any word on what Draeger said on this? We placed our order on the promise Draeger would be meeting the standard. Thanks.

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