Scott Scba

[kd7fds]

they are still in a waiting mode.

We were talking last night and wondering what kind of backorder issue they may or may not be developing.

Scott Rep came by last night and sweetened the deal, offered us enough extra 2nd stage regulators, at no extra cost, so that each fire fighter would have a mask and a regulator. Made the offer because we asked asked about cross contamination

[JD1234]

Brian--I think our grant close out date is early July 2008. What does this mean? Does this mean we have to have "completed" the grant process by receiving the equipment, or if we have it ordered and it is in the production process by July 2008, will we be fine? If not, at what point do we have to punt on Draeger and go with option 2? And again, we thought the "hard" part of the grant process was over.

Per Presidential Directive #5 grant money can't be spent on non-NFPA certified equipment, and per NFPA until the certificate is issued by the testing agency a pack isn't compliant until that happens. So they can't assemble any packs until the test is passed. You can order but make sure that nothing happens until they are passed. Also check your bid spec to make sure you didn't have a delivery requirement. If they haven't passed yet you have a delay until they can build a pack from that date since they aren't allowed to manufacture anything until the cert is out. So if you have a set delivery date and you're within 30 days I doubt anyone could get something through the assembly line that quickly. If they can, great, no problems. If not, you'd have to do something else, either rebid, or award #2.

[onebugle]

Brian--I think our grant close out date is early July 2008. What does this mean? Does this mean we have to have "completed" the grant process by receiving the equipment, or if we have it ordered and it is in the production process by July 2008, will we be fine? If not, at what point do we have to punt on Draeger and go with option 2? And again, we thought the "hard" part of the grant process was over.

This is the email that you will recieve 1 month before the end of the POP. This explains the process.

Our records indicate that your grant in approaching the end of the performance period. By the end of your performance period you should have completed the entire scope of work contained in your award. You have 90 days from the end of your period of performance to pay any debts encumbered during your period of performance. Once the scope of work is completed, and all debts have been paid (within 90 days of the end of your performance period), you should complete the closeout requirements. These requirements are a final financial status report and a final performance report. These reports should be submitted on-line through the AFG eGrants system, https://portal.fema.gov. You must select the option under the Action column entitled Closeout Grant. Instructions for closeout are provided in the closeout module on-line.

Brian posted this awhile back about SCBA awards.

Here is what I got from DHS on the 2007 compliance issue and waiting for vendors to pass tests.

Not word for word, but the sentiment is that you'll be hard pressed to be approved for an extension because you waiting/are waiting for a specific manufacturer to pass the tests. Brand name means nothing to interoperability because it's a UNIVERSAL connection, so since there are models on the market that have passed compliance and can be purchased/ordered now, you might not get an extension to your award. Meaning if it's not done in 12 months it is someone else's award to then spend in an excess fund award after you lose it.

Check with your local FPS if you have any questions/concerns.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

JD, as Bugle posted if they get it in time to deliver so that you can make the required reports on time then you can stick with them. If it doesn't look like that's going to happen by June I'd be looking elsewhere otherwise you'll forfeit the award.

[JD1234]

Great. We are in a real bind. All the other vendors were over the $5,000.00 limit per pack. What is the latest we should wait until before cancelling our current order and moving on to the next vendor? In other words, if we were to order from SCOTT or MSA, we should have our order placed by when to receive it by July 9, 2008. End of March?

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

I think most of the rest are looking at 4-6 week delivery time if even that long. Some vendors have stock for immediate delivery.

[onebugle]

Great. We are in a real bind. All the other vendors were over the $5,000.00 limit per pack. What is the latest we should wait until before cancelling our current order and moving on to the next vendor? In other words, if we were to order from SCOTT or MSA, we should have our order placed by when to receive it by July 9, 2008. End of March?

JD1234,

You are now 7 months into the grant without any clear picture from Draeger on when their SCBA will be compliant or delivered. Do you believe that will change in the next month? At some point you will have to sever ties with them and move on before it's too late.

If you decide to change companies, the order should be done sooner than later, just in case of delays from the other companies to fill the order.

My suggestion is to contact your FPS for guidance (if you haven't already). Explain the situation to them. It's better to get them on board now, than waiting the 11th hour to do so.

[rfd599]

The information provided by my original post was inaccurate. Drager's new breathing apparatus are undergoing testing currently and are anticipated to ship in May.

[JD1234]

rfd, thanks very much. That give us some degree of comfort and confidence that things will turn out OK. I guess Draeger is experiencing a downside of doing a nearly complete redesign of their SCBA, rather than a minor overhaul to meet the new spec.

[rfd599]

Drager's new breathing apparatus is anticipated to ship in May.

[Limeforever]

The NFPA deal with PD #5 is intersting. CEDAP gave away AMKUS tools, but amkus only has a couple of tools that have met the NFPA rating. Things that make you say HMMM. Brian, Bugle whats the opinion on this? My tool rep brought that point out a few weeks ago. The feds won't allow us to buy tools that have not met approval, yet they can distribute them.

[onebugle]

The NFPA deal with PD #5 is intersting. CEDAP gave away AMKUS tools, but amkus only has a couple of tools that have met the NFPA rating. Things that make you say HMMM. Brian, Bugle whats the opinion on this? My tool rep brought that point out a few weeks ago. The feds won't allow us to buy tools that have not met approval, yet they can distribute them.

If you look at it, the 2 grant programs are designed for 2 entirely different groups. The AFG for firefighters, requiring purchases to meet the standards. CEDAP is primarily for LE with some fire departments recieving an award, but with no set standard to meet (as far as I know).

The PG addresses the directive, but in the context of being NIMS compliant.

Interesting situation though. The fire service has standards to live by, but LE doesn't? But again they carry guns and we don't.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Bugle hit about the same argument I've heard on it. Besides the other one that possibly no one realized that Amkus didn't meet NFPA at the time they were chosen, but not sure if it was in the RFPs or not. If it wasn't in the RFP then they couldn't exclude the bid without redoing the whole thing (ie time delay). Could have been snowed by a rep too, a few departments have had that happen with people telling them they are NFPA compliant and really aren't.

When I get a free moment I might peruse the RFP for tools for the 2008 and see if it's in there.

[Poliseno]

We are getting awarded Friday for SCBA's. I specified SCOTT SCBA's in my grant request, do I need to get bids from other brands or just bids from 3 SCOTT vendors in my area since SCOTT was specified?

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

It's up to you, DHS can't get involved in bidding requirements as to what they say in them. You are not held to name brands in the grant apps, just what meets the NFPA standard.

But as long as your local bidding rules allow it you can specify brand name, part #'s, service metrics, etc, in your bid. At that point maybe only 1 or 2 can bid, and such is the nature of business, not everyone can meet the bid. Or you can just pull state contract bid too, depends on which one is better. Sometimes that saves time but not money, sometimes both.

[neiowa]

We are getting awarded Friday for SCBA's. I specified SCOTT SCBA's in my grant request, do I need to get bids from other brands or just bids from 3 SCOTT vendors in my area since SCOTT was specified?

You won't get much competition in pricing if only one brand under eval. Invite in the vendor you want to work with FIRST. Hang on to your spec/info until then. If Scott is concerned you're going to change to another brand (MSA of all other) they will get interested in providing special pricing to ONE vendor. None of the mfg are interested in their distributors cutting each others throats with a price war. Distributor needs to make a profit or they won't stay in business.

[JD1234]

Poliseno, our experience in NJ was that there was little difference among different SCOTT vendors in NJ. If I recall correctly, the lowest they got on the AP50 with 30 minute bottles and spares was around $5800/pack. Unless your department or town is going to chip in $800/pack, I would suggest looking at other brands. The other brands, particularly Draeger, are hungry to make inroads in NJ. If you leave an e-mail address, I can get in touch with you offline to discuss details.

Did you find a vendor outside NJ who would bid for you?

[islandfire03]

I find it interesting that folks in other states have gotten quotes as much as a thousand dollars lower for those same packs from scott. Seems to me that the scott dealers in NJ are price fixing in collusion with each other. Time to place a call to the local MSA Rep and get their price.

Yes I know you only want scotts and so do the dealers: Hence the outrageous prices!!! Something to think about.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

I don't think any of mine in NJ were over $5100 for Scott AP75s. Can't remember for sure, I don't get involved in bids since I don't run there. None of my beeswax as far as I'm concerned, besides I'm just here to get the money.

[neiowa]

QUOTE=islandfire03;922973]I find it interesting that folks in other states have gotten quotes as much as a thousand dollars lower for those same packs from scott. Seems to me that the scott dealers in NJ are price fixing in collusion with each other. Time to place a call to the local MSA Rep and get their price.

Yes I know you only want scotts and so do the dealers: Hence the outrageous prices!!! Something to think about.[/QUOTE]

No. If you aren't only looking at one brand you're not going to get an extra discount (thru their dealer). If you're looking at multiple brands you can get some price competition between the brands for your business. The mfg and distributor both want your business, but give away $ when not neccessary? Hardly likely?