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  1. #1
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    Default Tactics for 2.5 Woods and Triple Deckers

    Looking for some of the tactics being employed elsewhere on 2.5 Story Woods and Triple Decker Multi Fam Dwelling. Stuff like hose diameters, hose loads, # of FF'ers on a team, etc etc etc.


  2. #2
    Forum Member NDeMarse's Avatar
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    We put on a class called "Fires in Balloon-Frame Buildings". We have done it in Gilford, NH and in areas of MA.

    We discuss getting a lot of help there early, especially if the fire is or has the potential to run the voids (almost always). Call for help early, and turn them around if you don't need them.

    Engine Operations:
    Hose line selection has to be weighed with compatibility fire conditions, tactics to be employed and maneuverability. If the fire involves a few rooms and an interior attack is going to be attempted, it is well within the parameters of operating with an 1 3/4" hose line. If there is already a line in operation and additional lines are being stretched to cover extension, then 1 3/4" will almost always do the trick.

    If fire involves a fully involved floor and an interior attack is to be attempted, perhaps a 2 1/2" attack line is called for. After the main body of fire has been darkened down, the 2 1/2" line can be reduced to an 1 3/4" for overhaul and chasing pockets of fire in the voids. A line will be needed on all floors that extension is found. A proactive incident commander will probably order a line stretched to the floor above the fire right away in anticipation of extension.

    Anytime that an exterior (surround and drown) or exposure protection operation is started, a 2 1/2" line should be mandated for this operation.

    Ladder Operations:
    As you know, several functions need to be carried out at or about the same time to extinguish the fire or slow it down. To name a few: Search, ventilation and checking numerous areas on several floors for extension.

    One of the tactics that we expand upon in the classes to slow down the fire extension to "buy time" to extinguish the fire before we get pulled out of the building. One of the ways to slow fire progression in the vertical voids is to punch small holes in each exterior wall bay, skipping bays with windows present (natural fire stops) and operate the hose line into each hole to slow down extension. After the fire extension has been slowed, THEN completely open those same bays top to bottom to COMPLETELY extinguish the fire.

    Some members will open up one bay top to bottom, then the next top to bottom. Meanwhile the fire has passed them in the adjoining voids that they did not have time to open.

    Vertical ventilation is another concern. Will you send a team to the roof to open it up or will utilize those same firefighters to open up walls and ceilings to get ahead of the fire? These questions can only be answered by your department and the way it operates. Most of the time, it hinges upon manpower and the type of roof.

    Anytime that there is a flat roof, at least one (preferably two) members should be sent there to vent the natural openings (skylights, scuttles, shaft enclosures and/or cut the roof) due to the ease of operation. Initial operations vary for peaked roof buildings. Some departments vent them initially, some do not.
    Good Luck, Stay Low & Stay Safe

    Nate DeMarse
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  3. #3
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    Awesome stuff, thanks. Also anyone running any type of 2 1/2 or 3 inch to gated wye setup? Somewhat of an "Apartment Load" or something. Such as a bed of 150 ft of 2.5 with a gated wye, while another FF grabs a bundle of 1 3/4. Anything like this would be helpful.

  4. #4
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    Default Hose bed set-up for Big Box or low rise

    We have been using this same set-up on preconnects since 1974.
    All 4 of our engines are set up to do attack work since they are on a rotational schedule for first due. All have 2 or 3 Mattydales with 200 ft. of 1 3/4 with automatic nozzles. There is a 10 ft leader attached to each so that it is easy to disconnect and attach to another line. Off the rear we have a main bed of 5" (1200 ft min) with additional hose dividers for two - 1 3/4" - 200 ft PC on the left attached to a 2 1/2 X 2 - 1 1/2 gated wye. On the right is a static bed of 600' of 3" with 2 1/2" couplings, and a second set of dividers with 2 - 2 1/2" preconnects (200 ft with Akron Turbojets) attached to a 2 1/2 X 2 1/2 gated wye.

    This allows a 4 man crew to shoulder the stacks of 1 3/4 & remove the wye (2 firefighters) and 2 firefighters advance the 2 1/2 attack line - remove the nozzle, and reattach the 2 1/2 X 2 - 1 1/2 " wye and presto two 1 3/4 " attack lines 400' into the building. This arrangement drops the volume from 180 gpm per line to about 150 gpm per line when both lines are flowing.

    The static 3" can then be attached to the rear discharge where the wye was removed, select the amount of additional line needed and attach the other shoulder load of 2 1/2 to provide the back-up line when the second engine crew has reached the scene.

    This hose bed arrangement will fully utilize the capacity of a 1250 gpm attack engine at 180 psi with 30 psi relay pressure incoming. Additional lines are possible if extra nozzles (2 1/2") or master stream appliances are carried on the attack engine. That is 4 or 5 - 1 3/4" and 2 - 2 1/2" lines (1220 or 1400 gpm) Yes you will need a whole bunch of FF's to handle this.

    Kuh Shise Just and old German B.S. er

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    Just need the basics.
    2 efficient Engine Companies that can get the correct lines in service quickly,
    A coordinated effort between the Ladder Co and Rescue Co (or second ladder) on Forced entry, ventilation and search & rescue, and a good Battalion Chief to run the show!

  6. #6
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    For a room and contents fire, the 1.75" should do the trick.. anything more, consider pulling the big line before the fire gets ahead of you. Advance it dry, charge it when needed and you can wail the snot out of the fire. It's GPMs vs. BTUs, not brain surgery or rocket science!
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 01-02-2008 at 08:13 AM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    I've also been preaching the advantages of smoothbores, but as always something "different" falls on deaf ears. Even tho its not different at all. Anyone employ something as far as advancing a bundle and dropping off a deck, and securing with a strap or something, I've heard alot of chatter about that.

  8. #8
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    Make sure you have a line that can reach the attic from the front door of that triple decker if necessary. Providence RI carries a 250' preconnect off the rear for exactly that. I think if the fire is above the second floor on arrival, the 250' is either the first or second line pulled.

    They also vertically ventilate- early and often! But they also have enough manpower to send a roof team and still have truckies inside ripping bays.
    Last edited by emt161; 01-04-2008 at 12:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisXL64 View Post
    Awesome stuff, thanks. Also anyone running any type of 2 1/2 or 3 inch to gated wye setup? Somewhat of an "Apartment Load" or something. Such as a bed of 150 ft of 2.5 with a gated wye, while another FF grabs a bundle of 1 3/4. Anything like this would be helpful.
    Our standard leadout is 2 1/2 with an 1 1/4 shutoff pipe to a gated wye to 100" of 1 3/4. With this setup you can use either line to fight the fire - break it at the 2 1/2 and use that or just use the small line.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisXL64 View Post
    Anyone employ something as far as advancing a bundle and dropping off a deck, and securing with a strap or something, I've heard alot of chatter about that.
    This is pretty standard for our "short" highrises. They are 7 story projects that were designed to be 79 ft tall - one foot short of what would require standpipes. Our highrise packs are 200' of 2 1/2. We go in with those and drop them out an appropriate widow and thats that.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

  11. #11
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    A tactic that came out of Boston a while back for outside porch fires on triple deckers. When there is a outside fire on the open wood porch of a 3 decker you are faced with well ventilated fast moving fire spread upwards. A 2.5 line to the rear hitting the fire from the rear yard (side c) didnt have the desired effect, as it broke windows and helped the fire enter the building. If the line is placed at the B/C or C/D corner and the stream crossed the rear of the building you can hit each porch, porch roof/floor without pushing the fire toward the building and possibly breaking windows. Any fire /air / water movement attributed to the line was not into the building.

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