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  1. #21
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    Talking

    [QUOTE=captT52;904750]

    If Chicago wants to use FAST or make up a word like "TERD" to mean Tactical Emergency Rescue Detail, that does not bother me. They can ask for a "Terd in sector D" all the want.



    AWESOME!!!! I laughed until I cried...There are some many ways to go with this....Someone calls MAYDAY and Command is going to activate the TERD...I love it. Beautiful...Thx Cap!


  2. #22
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    Default RIC v. FAST

    Thanks, I'm glad you liked it.

    But my point is this. I am not advocating one term over another. I can offer some questions or hypothetical problems with one over the other but the people here can provide answers why those questions or problems don't really matter. I tend to agree that a department who uses FAST will probably never have a problem with a misunderstanding, just because someone MIGHT say the word "fast" in a sentence.

    My real question is; Shouldn't we, the fire service, decide upon a universal term for this important rescue element?

    In my area, of 4000+ FFs, I don't think that any department uses FAST. In my department of 300+, I suspect that their aren't 10 people who have ever heard the term. Since this term is so important shouldn't it be the same everywhere? I really don't care what the term is. But it seems that certain authorities have determined that it should be "RIC". I can only guess why this was chosen over FAST. For example, the universal connector for SCBA is called the "URIC" connection. I am guessing that they did not want to call it the FAST connection.

    It would not bother me at all (I promise) if the fire service decided to call it FAST and we had to adjust our communications. (Although I am sure that some people would gripe.)

    Years ago I would have never dreamed that we would be sending people hundreds of miles away for mutual aid. My department has now done this several times. We probably should stop operating as though we are an island.

  3. #23

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    Default Fast

    FAST makes more sense even though may be confusing my dept everything is just always known that you do it asap so having to say do something fast or rapid is not needed. for every structure fire a FAST crew is automatically dispatched upon the call coming in for a working structure fire. our FAST crews are mutual aid all the time. too many possible emotions having to rescue one of your own dept members. and our FAST crew is always said as FAST team or FAST crew and not just FAST.

    RIT doesn't necessarily mean that that team is there on scene only for a firefighter down call. our FAST crews are there only for firefighter down rescues till the most severe danger present to crews is non-existent. my area of orange/sullivan counties in NY have always used FAST and there has not once been a problem over the radio of anysort with using the term FAST.






    as far as truck numbering there are many methods. i believe that my area in sullivan county NY has a very good system. each truck as a set of 2 numbers. my station is 62 so the first 2 numbers are the station number. the second 2 numbers are based on what type of truck it is. chiefs are the single digits. such as 1, 2, 3,. so my chief calls our "62-1" all our neighboring dept kno that it's from station 62 and that is our chief. engines start at 11. so our first due engine is 62-11. depts know that it's a first due engine from station 62. and they kno exactly what they are getting and from where. the number done start on the whole 10's such as 20 cause the radio may cut off the 2 in 22 and somebody may think it's 62-20 and not 62-22. but ladders are 21 and up and tankers are 31, utilities vehicles are 51, rescues are 61. there may be more up then that but i have not heard any over the radio but it seems to be a fairly easy system to use. it is very easy to kno what kind of truck is coming and where it is coming from and it is a very quick call. neighboring orange county numbers there trucks by each dept having a block of numbers for their trucks. such as 100-115. so a neighboring company could call out 105 but if your not familiar with exactly which company has which block of numers it is easy to get confused as to where it is coming from and if your not familiar with what that dept has numbered each piece of apparatus a mutual aid dept trying to contact your chief the chief may not kno exactly where the unit calling is from or what type of unit it is. a neighboring station when they call 39-61 i kno that it's coming from station 39 and i kno it's a rescue truck. a very easy system to follow.

  4. #24
    Forum Member st42stephenAFT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sta62ff
    as far as truck numbering there are many methods. i believe that my area in sullivan county NY has a very good system. each truck as a set of 2 numbers. my station is 62 so the first 2 numbers are the station number. the second 2 numbers are based on what type of truck it is. chiefs are the single digits. such as 1, 2, 3,. so my chief calls our "62-1" all our neighboring dept kno that it's from station 62 and that is our chief. engines start at 11. so our first due engine is 62-11. depts know that it's a first due engine from station 62. and they kno exactly what they are getting and from where. the number done start on the whole 10's such as 20 cause the radio may cut off the 2 in 22 and somebody may think it's 62-20 and not 62-22. but ladders are 21 and up and tankers are 31, utilities vehicles are 51, rescues are 61. there may be more up then that but i have not heard any over the radio but it seems to be a fairly easy system to use. it is very easy to kno what kind of truck is coming and where it is coming from and it is a very quick call. neighboring orange county numbers there trucks by each dept having a block of numbers for their trucks. such as 100-115. so a neighboring company could call out 105 but if your not familiar with exactly which company has which block of numers it is easy to get confused as to where it is coming from and if your not familiar with what that dept has numbered each piece of apparatus a mutual aid dept trying to contact your chief the chief may not kno exactly where the unit calling is from or what type of unit it is. a neighboring station when they call 39-61 i kno that it's coming from station 39 and i kno it's a rescue truck. a very easy system to follow.

    We do things similarly here in Ocean County, NJ. All trucks are 4 digits long. The frist two digits are the station number. My station number is 42, so all my trucks/officers start with 42--. If it's a line officer (safety, lt, capt, or chief), the 4th digit it a 0. And the 3rd digit is what position they are.


    EX:
    4200 = Chief of company
    4210 = Asst. Chief
    4220 = Captain
    4230 = 1st Lieu
    4240 = 2nd Lieu
    4250 = Safety Officer

    Trucks are also labeled in the same way. I'm not sure of all of them, but here are the ones I know. For apparatus, it's the 4th digit that specifies what that type of apparatus is. The third digit can be whatever. I don't believe there is any reason to the 3rd digit. My town has all 0's as third digits, but our previous engine was 4211. The town next to us has 80's for their apparatus.

    Ending digit is...
    1 = Engine
    2 =
    3 = Utility
    4 = Transpot
    5 = Ladder
    6 =
    7 =
    8 =
    9 = Brush/Wildland




    As for FAST/RIT/RIC, we're FAST team here (AFT to be exact ). Never heard of a problem with calling for a FAST team and having any radio confusion. Although in the paper the last time we had a fire they confused FAST with FART and said that the Fatal Accident Response Team came to the fire??? Does that count?

  5. #25
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Default

    I don't believe there is any reason to the 3rd digit.
    3rd digit was to be which "due" piece from that station. 4201 meant 1st due. 4211 meant 2nd due. 4221 meant 3rd due.

    That was the plan. That part of it never came to fruition.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  6. #26
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    Default

    Sorry to bring back an old thread, but stuff like this gets to me sometimes.

    Common terminology only matters if you are working with somebody. We use RIT here in Philly but we dont call New York to our firegrounds. I can see the need in Bumfook when you have multiple different departments operating on the same fireground to use common terminology, but that need doesnt apply here. I see no need for somebody listening on the internet from Oklahoma to completely understand every radio transmission on our fireground. And likewise, I see no need for me to understand theirs. If the FDNY uses FAST, as long as all the members of the FDNY know what FAST means, how is it a problem. If Chicago uses TERD, well, it fits!
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFDTruck18 View Post
    Sorry to bring back an old thread, but stuff like this gets to me sometimes.

    Common terminology only matters if you are working with somebody. We use RIT here in Philly but we dont call New York to our firegrounds. I can see the need in Bumfook when you have multiple different departments operating on the same fireground to use common terminology, but that need doesnt apply here. I see no need for somebody listening on the internet from Oklahoma to completely understand every radio transmission on our fireground. And likewise, I see no need for me to understand theirs. If the FDNY uses FAST, as long as all the members of the FDNY know what FAST means, how is it a problem. If Chicago uses TERD, well, it fits!
    Really who cares what you call it? I am certain we are all smart enough to figure out what RIT, RIC, and FAST all mean.

    We get so wrapped up in NIMS that it is silly. We take the NIMS classes so we can get money. Has NIMS changed our day to day operations? No. We do the same stuff we have always done. However, if we have an exercise for the "BIG" one then yes we use NIMS. If the FDNY (or any departmen) sent units to to our big one I am sure they would be able to switch gears from their norm to a simple plain english (NIMS) type communication.

    Remember NIMS was designed for all kinds of agencies, public and private, that had little or no exposure to the incident command system. There are sanitation engineer supervisors that have taken NIMS in our city, along with the health department, streets and roads, parks and recreation, etc...

    NIMS is meant for the really BIG one. Not your day to day. Use what works for you and your area and not get caught up in the NIMS monster.

    As for vehicle numbering systems, etc...What is so hard about "Lexington Engine 13 to New York Engine 13."

  8. #28
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    Default

    RIT doesn't necessarily mean that that team is there on scene only for a firefighter down call.



    What else would it be for. We are the ones in control. If we are dumb enought to activate the RIT for something other than a FF down then mabey we should get a job at the 7-11.

  9. #29
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    We have a dedicated crew , made up of older fireman standing by. They are the Firefighter Assist & Rescue Team.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by captT52 View Post
    . . . . . Do departments who use the acronym FAST have a rule against using the word "fast" in radio communications? That wouldn't be a bad thing.

    Should we use a commonly spoken word to mean disaster or danger?
    We don't have a rule against it. Yes it would be a bad thing. We don't have confusion about what someone means if they use that word. All you have to do is pay attention to the radio and listen to what is being said.

    There were, or maybe still are, some people trying to get rid of "Mayday" and replace it with 'Emergency Traffic". Say that three times fast. They can kiss my a##. I'll say mayday if need be. If I hear mayday I'll do what is needed and not give a damn about how the call for help is stated.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by len1582 View Post
    We don't have a rule against it. Yes it would be a bad thing. We don't have confusion about what someone means if they use that word. All you have to do is pay attention to the radio and listen to what is being said.

    There were, or maybe still are, some people trying to get rid of "Mayday" and replace it with 'Emergency Traffic". Say that three times fast. They can kiss my a##. I'll say mayday if need be. If I hear mayday I'll do what is needed and not give a damn about how the call for help is stated.
    Welcome to New Jersey! lol Their excuse was that Boats, Ship and the Coast Guard use Mayday and somehow even though we are all on different frequency may confuse them and send a false alert! Our county wants a to stop saying "urgent" on the radio and now say "emergency traffic" when trying to say an important message over the air. We're going from simple terms to full paragraphs basically now! As for Rit, Ric and Fast we are calling it a FAST team around here. I dont know why everyone has to try to reinvent the wheel by calling it something else. It should be a national standard to either be calls a FAST, RIT or RIC.
    Stay safe!

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrose33 View Post
    I dont know why everyone has to try to reinvent the wheel by calling it something else.
    Because some of these politically appointed non firefighting a**holes feel they have to reinvent the wheel so other people will want to ride on their wagon. If they go with what already works they don't look like a progressive genius. I remember exposure 1-2-3-4 worked very well. Or "I'm on the 4th floor", not division.

  13. #33
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    Our county wants a to stop saying "urgent" on the radio and now say "emergency traffic" when trying to say an important message over the air. We're going from simple terms to full paragraphs basically now!
    When someone needs to interupt radio traffic due to URGENCY, they use "RUSH TRAFFIC".

    Some of our 911 dispatchers (non-fire) will use "BREAK FOR TRAFFIC".
    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by captT52 View Post
    I mostly see the term "RIC" in the national training /NIMS stuff and the use of the term "RIC/UAC connection" when talking about SCBA.

    And yet I seem to most often see "RIT" on the forum.
    This thread is the first time in 12 years of on/off service that I have seen RIC. We always use RIT.

    However this tread made me look in the Essentials of firefighting 5th edition and they use the term RIC.


    I think RIT and RIC sound close enough when said that team would know what you mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    As I've pointed out almost everyone outside a few older and larger cities calls their companies by some unit designation system that uses a coded 3 or 4 digit idenification (Engine 3 is Unit 1423...etc.)

    What are your Depts terms or definitions for the following:

    I have thought about that too. For example I always see online, tv, movies, ect stations have numbers based on the truck, ie: ladder 49 engine 33. All of our stations are numbered then the trucks numbers off that.
    ie: we are station 12 our pumper is 1251, tanker is 1262 ect. The last two numbers tell the type of apparatus the first numbers tell the station. This seems to make more sense to me then the other. We know what station and what truck.

    "Ladder 49" tells me nothing. I have no idea what station that is. I know people that work that area would know, but it seems odd to me.

    You can have several stations in a area (like we do) and each one have a number. (Station 49) then the truck number (4963 would be the ladder truck, 49 - station 63 ladder truck).

    Just my opinion.

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    Ladder 49 tells you that you are getting a truck. What station it comes from really doesn't matter. If it was engine 49, you'd know you were getting an engine.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Ladder 49 tells you that you are getting a truck. What station it comes from really doesn't matter. If it was engine 49, you'd know you were getting an engine.
    Wouldn't it matter what station?

    We know when we hear ??51 that we are getting a pumper, but hearing 12, or 18 or 25 tells us what station it is coming from so we know when to expect it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. D. View Post
    Wouldn't it matter what station?

    We know when we hear ??51 that we are getting a pumper, but hearing 12, or 18 or 25 tells us what station it is coming from so we know when to expect it.

    You know it's coming from station 49.

    Our number system is very simple. Our department is station 7, so everything begins with a 7. Engine 71 and 72, Tanker 7, Squad 7, Ambulance 78, 79 etc. No need to try and figure out the type of unit based on the last 2 digits. There is some reasoning to assigning numbers though, Units ending in 1 to 4 are engines, ending in 7, 8, or 9 are ambulances, 5 would be a mini-pumper. Fortunatly, our county is small enough that we all know what our neighboring departments are bringing.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. D. View Post
    Wouldn't it matter what station?

    We know when we hear ??51 that we are getting a pumper, but hearing 12, or 18 or 25 tells us what station it is coming from so we know when to expect it.
    Maybe in your case. If there is that much of a difference in response time for an engine from those stations, it might matter.

    Of course, many other factors on their on scene time will come into play as well....traffic, weather, mechanical issues, etc. Just because you hear a close station doesn't mean the quickest response.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eng34FF View Post
    You know it's coming from station 49.

    Our number system is very simple. Our department is station 7, so everything begins with a 7. Engine 71 and 72, Tanker 7, Squad 7, Ambulance 78, 79 etc. No need to try and figure out the type of unit based on the last 2 digits. There is some reasoning to assigning numbers though, Units ending in 1 to 4 are engines, ending in 7, 8, or 9 are ambulances, 5 would be a mini-pumper. Fortunatly, our county is small enough that we all know what our neighboring departments are bringing.
    Ours is the same our station is 12 so everything starts with 12 anything ending in 5? (ie 51, 51, 53 ect) is a pumper, anything with 61-69 is a tanker, and so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Maybe in your case. If there is that much of a difference in response time for an engine from those stations, it might matter.

    Of course, many other factors on their on scene time will come into play as well....traffic, weather, mechanical issues, etc. Just because you hear a close station doesn't mean the quickest response.
    This is true, but if we hear 1851 we know we have a pumper coming from just up the road, vs if we here 1151 that pumper is the next town over and will take 20 mins to arrive.

    Around here, no matter what the call (excluding EMS calls), 3 stations are paged until first arrival and situation report. 9 times out of 10 the first arrival will 10-22 other stations after a size up.
    Last edited by Mr. D.; 08-27-2012 at 09:16 PM.

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