1. #26
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    Sorry to bring back an old thread, but stuff like this gets to me sometimes.

    Common terminology only matters if you are working with somebody. We use RIT here in Philly but we dont call New York to our firegrounds. I can see the need in Bumfook when you have multiple different departments operating on the same fireground to use common terminology, but that need doesnt apply here. I see no need for somebody listening on the internet from Oklahoma to completely understand every radio transmission on our fireground. And likewise, I see no need for me to understand theirs. If the FDNY uses FAST, as long as all the members of the FDNY know what FAST means, how is it a problem. If Chicago uses TERD, well, it fits!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFDTruck18 View Post
    Sorry to bring back an old thread, but stuff like this gets to me sometimes.

    Common terminology only matters if you are working with somebody. We use RIT here in Philly but we dont call New York to our firegrounds. I can see the need in Bumfook when you have multiple different departments operating on the same fireground to use common terminology, but that need doesnt apply here. I see no need for somebody listening on the internet from Oklahoma to completely understand every radio transmission on our fireground. And likewise, I see no need for me to understand theirs. If the FDNY uses FAST, as long as all the members of the FDNY know what FAST means, how is it a problem. If Chicago uses TERD, well, it fits!
    Really who cares what you call it? I am certain we are all smart enough to figure out what RIT, RIC, and FAST all mean.

    We get so wrapped up in NIMS that it is silly. We take the NIMS classes so we can get money. Has NIMS changed our day to day operations? No. We do the same stuff we have always done. However, if we have an exercise for the "BIG" one then yes we use NIMS. If the FDNY (or any departmen) sent units to to our big one I am sure they would be able to switch gears from their norm to a simple plain english (NIMS) type communication.

    Remember NIMS was designed for all kinds of agencies, public and private, that had little or no exposure to the incident command system. There are sanitation engineer supervisors that have taken NIMS in our city, along with the health department, streets and roads, parks and recreation, etc...

    NIMS is meant for the really BIG one. Not your day to day. Use what works for you and your area and not get caught up in the NIMS monster.

    As for vehicle numbering systems, etc...What is so hard about "Lexington Engine 13 to New York Engine 13."

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    RIT doesn't necessarily mean that that team is there on scene only for a firefighter down call.



    What else would it be for. We are the ones in control. If we are dumb enought to activate the RIT for something other than a FF down then mabey we should get a job at the 7-11.

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    We have a dedicated crew , made up of older fireman standing by. They are the Firefighter Assist & Rescue Team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captT52 View Post
    . . . . . Do departments who use the acronym FAST have a rule against using the word "fast" in radio communications? That wouldn't be a bad thing.

    Should we use a commonly spoken word to mean disaster or danger?
    We don't have a rule against it. Yes it would be a bad thing. We don't have confusion about what someone means if they use that word. All you have to do is pay attention to the radio and listen to what is being said.

    There were, or maybe still are, some people trying to get rid of "Mayday" and replace it with 'Emergency Traffic". Say that three times fast. They can kiss my a##. I'll say mayday if need be. If I hear mayday I'll do what is needed and not give a damn about how the call for help is stated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by len1582 View Post
    We don't have a rule against it. Yes it would be a bad thing. We don't have confusion about what someone means if they use that word. All you have to do is pay attention to the radio and listen to what is being said.

    There were, or maybe still are, some people trying to get rid of "Mayday" and replace it with 'Emergency Traffic". Say that three times fast. They can kiss my a##. I'll say mayday if need be. If I hear mayday I'll do what is needed and not give a damn about how the call for help is stated.
    Welcome to New Jersey! lol Their excuse was that Boats, Ship and the Coast Guard use Mayday and somehow even though we are all on different frequency may confuse them and send a false alert! Our county wants a to stop saying "urgent" on the radio and now say "emergency traffic" when trying to say an important message over the air. We're going from simple terms to full paragraphs basically now! As for Rit, Ric and Fast we are calling it a FAST team around here. I dont know why everyone has to try to reinvent the wheel by calling it something else. It should be a national standard to either be calls a FAST, RIT or RIC.
    Stay safe!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrose33 View Post
    I dont know why everyone has to try to reinvent the wheel by calling it something else.
    Because some of these politically appointed non firefighting a**holes feel they have to reinvent the wheel so other people will want to ride on their wagon. If they go with what already works they don't look like a progressive genius. I remember exposure 1-2-3-4 worked very well. Or "I'm on the 4th floor", not division.

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    Our county wants a to stop saying "urgent" on the radio and now say "emergency traffic" when trying to say an important message over the air. We're going from simple terms to full paragraphs basically now!
    When someone needs to interupt radio traffic due to URGENCY, they use "RUSH TRAFFIC".

    Some of our 911 dispatchers (non-fire) will use "BREAK FOR TRAFFIC".
    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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    Quote Originally Posted by captT52 View Post
    I mostly see the term "RIC" in the national training /NIMS stuff and the use of the term "RIC/UAC connection" when talking about SCBA.

    And yet I seem to most often see "RIT" on the forum.
    This thread is the first time in 12 years of on/off service that I have seen RIC. We always use RIT.

    However this tread made me look in the Essentials of firefighting 5th edition and they use the term RIC.


    I think RIT and RIC sound close enough when said that team would know what you mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    As I've pointed out almost everyone outside a few older and larger cities calls their companies by some unit designation system that uses a coded 3 or 4 digit idenification (Engine 3 is Unit 1423...etc.)

    What are your Depts terms or definitions for the following:

    I have thought about that too. For example I always see online, tv, movies, ect stations have numbers based on the truck, ie: ladder 49 engine 33. All of our stations are numbered then the trucks numbers off that.
    ie: we are station 12 our pumper is 1251, tanker is 1262 ect. The last two numbers tell the type of apparatus the first numbers tell the station. This seems to make more sense to me then the other. We know what station and what truck.

    "Ladder 49" tells me nothing. I have no idea what station that is. I know people that work that area would know, but it seems odd to me.

    You can have several stations in a area (like we do) and each one have a number. (Station 49) then the truck number (4963 would be the ladder truck, 49 - station 63 ladder truck).

    Just my opinion.

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    Ladder 49 tells you that you are getting a truck. What station it comes from really doesn't matter. If it was engine 49, you'd know you were getting an engine.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Ladder 49 tells you that you are getting a truck. What station it comes from really doesn't matter. If it was engine 49, you'd know you were getting an engine.
    Wouldn't it matter what station?

    We know when we hear ??51 that we are getting a pumper, but hearing 12, or 18 or 25 tells us what station it is coming from so we know when to expect it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. D. View Post
    Wouldn't it matter what station?

    We know when we hear ??51 that we are getting a pumper, but hearing 12, or 18 or 25 tells us what station it is coming from so we know when to expect it.

    You know it's coming from station 49.

    Our number system is very simple. Our department is station 7, so everything begins with a 7. Engine 71 and 72, Tanker 7, Squad 7, Ambulance 78, 79 etc. No need to try and figure out the type of unit based on the last 2 digits. There is some reasoning to assigning numbers though, Units ending in 1 to 4 are engines, ending in 7, 8, or 9 are ambulances, 5 would be a mini-pumper. Fortunatly, our county is small enough that we all know what our neighboring departments are bringing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. D. View Post
    Wouldn't it matter what station?

    We know when we hear ??51 that we are getting a pumper, but hearing 12, or 18 or 25 tells us what station it is coming from so we know when to expect it.
    Maybe in your case. If there is that much of a difference in response time for an engine from those stations, it might matter.

    Of course, many other factors on their on scene time will come into play as well....traffic, weather, mechanical issues, etc. Just because you hear a close station doesn't mean the quickest response.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eng34FF View Post
    You know it's coming from station 49.

    Our number system is very simple. Our department is station 7, so everything begins with a 7. Engine 71 and 72, Tanker 7, Squad 7, Ambulance 78, 79 etc. No need to try and figure out the type of unit based on the last 2 digits. There is some reasoning to assigning numbers though, Units ending in 1 to 4 are engines, ending in 7, 8, or 9 are ambulances, 5 would be a mini-pumper. Fortunatly, our county is small enough that we all know what our neighboring departments are bringing.
    Ours is the same our station is 12 so everything starts with 12 anything ending in 5? (ie 51, 51, 53 ect) is a pumper, anything with 61-69 is a tanker, and so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Maybe in your case. If there is that much of a difference in response time for an engine from those stations, it might matter.

    Of course, many other factors on their on scene time will come into play as well....traffic, weather, mechanical issues, etc. Just because you hear a close station doesn't mean the quickest response.
    This is true, but if we hear 1851 we know we have a pumper coming from just up the road, vs if we here 1151 that pumper is the next town over and will take 20 mins to arrive.

    Around here, no matter what the call (excluding EMS calls), 3 stations are paged until first arrival and situation report. 9 times out of 10 the first arrival will 10-22 other stations after a size up.
    Last edited by Mr. D.; 08-27-2012 at 10:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. D. View Post
    Ours is the same our station is 12 so everything starts with 12 anything ending in 5? (ie 51, 51, 53 ect) is a pumper, anything with 61-69 is a tanker, and so on.
    We have five departments in my volunteer county, each with one station. Pretty damned easy to figure out that Engine 4 is coming from Company 4, and Tanker 2 is coming from Company 2.

    My station has Engine 2, Tanker 2, Rescue 2, EMS-2, Brush 2 and Car 2. The only station in the county with two engines uses the term "Wagon" for the second out engine (a term that people who aren't from Virginia, DC, and Maryland are rarely familiar with). Very easy for the mutual aid jurisdictions we run with to identify what kind of rig is coming to them. Easier for them to understand that "Tanker 2" is a tanker is versus "261" which could be a ladder truck or brush truck for all they know.

    This style of unit numbering (apparatus type + station number) is the norm for virtually every city and county in this area.

    As for the original topic, our department (work) uses RIC and RIT interchangeably. Only a few FDNY groupies amongst the 525 people on the department would even know what FAST is. RIT is what we use at the VFD.
    Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 08-27-2012 at 11:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    We have five departments in my volunteer county, each with one station. Pretty damned easy to figure out that Engine 4 is coming from Company 4, and Tanker 2 is coming from Company 2.
    I agree. I believe it is the same type system we use. We have 14 FD's, 2 rescue squads, and the forestry service. So, as I said above, each department has a station number (ie 12) and each truck as a number. Some departments have more then one of a type of truck. So if station 18 has 2 tankers, they would be 1861 and 1862. All departments in this area know that 51-59 are pumpers and 61-69 are tankers so there is no confusion when they here ??61, they know it's a pumper on the way, or ?? 62 they know it's a tanker.

    Sorry, not trying to argue, just trying to make sure I understand your post correctly.
    Last edited by Mr. D.; 08-28-2012 at 12:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    ...Only a few FDNY groupies amongst the 525 people on the department would even know what FAST is. RIT is what we use at the VFD.
    In my area, RIT/RIC is rarely used. FAST is the norm here.
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    I could care less if a dept. calls it a RIT, RIC, FAST or whatever. I'm more concerned that they know what to do than if they know what the acronym is stands for.

    As for numbering systems, around here, the biggest dept. has station numbers 1-49, the next dept. has 50-59, then the next has 60-69 and so on. It goes out to the surrounding counties. Whether it's engine 1, or engine 301, we know the dept, station, and type of equipment is coming.

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    [QUOTE=ETHREETWO;921926]
    Quote Originally Posted by captT52 View Post

    If Chicago wants to use FAST or make up a word like "TERD" to mean Tactical Emergency Rescue Detail, that does not bother me. They can ask for a "Terd in sector D" all the want.



    AWESOME!!!! I laughed until I cried...There are some many ways to go with this....Someone calls MAYDAY and Command is going to activate the TERD...I love it. Beautiful...Thx Cap!
    A friend of mine 's FD began adding another company to alarms as per their rapid intervention protocols once they went through their training. The Deputy who was tasked with setting up and implementing it decided to name it the Firefighter Assistance Rescue Team....

    Their first fire after the protocol went into effect, my friend's Ladder company was tasked with the RIT assignment... Fire alarm took the first letter of Firefighter Assistance Rescue Team and used that for the acronym.

    "Fire Alarm to Ladder 2, respond to the fire scene, you are the designated FART!"

    It got changed to FAST right after that!
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    Police in my area formed a FART group. Fatal Accident Response Team. They are specially trained in accident investigation/reconstruction/etc. They are requested to all fatal accidents and near fatal ones. They still use FART. We get a chuckle out of it the first couple times. Then we got past that phase.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Police in my area formed a FART group. Fatal Accident Response Team. They are specially trained in accident investigation/reconstruction/etc. They are requested to all fatal accidents and near fatal ones. They still use FART. We get a chuckle out of it the first couple times. Then we got past that phase.

    You sure about that last part? Last time I heard a FART get requested, I think everyone still chuckled.

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    Now it's an old fart.

    Should see the new gear we got....harness built into the pants instead of the Gemtor. No more big biner that we used to clip onto guys SCBA's to drag them out, no more using the big biner to hook onto ladders....gonna have to figure other ways to do this..or buy new biners to add on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Now it's an old fart.

    Should see the new gear we got....harness built into the pants instead of the Gemtor. No more big biner that we used to clip onto guys SCBA's to drag them out, no more using the big biner to hook onto ladders....gonna have to figure other ways to do this..or buy new biners to add on.
    I've heard mixed review on that kinda bunker pants. Down here we don't have any harness on our pants, so I've adjusted and gotten used to not having it.

    I'll be home this weekend, so I'll have to stop by and check it out. I hope I still have my old gear in my stall!

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    Terds... Farts..... Only in FD can we take an important duty/task and turn it into bathroom humor. Love it!


    Now I kinda sped read through this as I multi-tasking so I apologize if this was already covered.. but Wasnt there a big push to actually move away from using RIT all together? I could have sworn I read an article in firehouse Mag. that said they were trying to move past the use of RIT/RIC "team" and rather train all firefighters on a given department the duties of RIT/RIC and how to get themselves out of a jam. Don't get me wrong I personally still want that RIT team availible, but lets face it, there are some areas that just dont have that kind of manpower, then half the time the people showing up dont actually have any formal RIT/RIC training/certification.

    Thoughts?

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