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  1. #4076
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    i like that button man
    I should have cleaned up the chili.....why didn't I clean up the chili!!!!!!

  2. #4077
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    Default Jan 2010 class

    I think a good sign to the possibility of a Jan 2010 class will be if people start getting notified in July/August to retake their expired medicals.

    My list # is 186X and my medical will expire in October
    Last edited by QCFRANKC; 06-02-2009 at 02:49 PM. Reason: needed to add

  3. #4078
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    I don't know how that class is looking, but I'll bet that a lot will rest upon whether the mayor closes as many houses as he says.

    Our numbers right now are about even. There are no longer any 100+ tours and we've been sniffing a little O/T. I think the city was short manpower about 5 times last week. Not bad outta 14 tours in a week.

    This is about the time a new class would be graduating and no one is coming out. Even after July 1st, with the guys from the 4 closed co's, we won't be even. It's only about 20 extra a tour and that's IF those companies have full rosters.

    We will most certainly be depleted over the summer while plenty of guys who have full vacations take them, as with all of the union delegates.

    I would think that our numbers will shrink a fair amount and that the closings indicated by the city will only take the place of a Summer ' 09 class and that an additional class will be needed.

    Keep your fingers crossed, but I'll BET that there will be a class inside the next 10 months. Remember, nothing says that it HAS to start in Jan.

  4. #4079
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    Default Fdny

    thanks for the information FDsouthbx

    Do a lot of guys stay past 20 years? what is the average amount of years guys put in?

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    Quote Originally Posted by QCFRANKC View Post
    thanks for the information FDsouthbx

    Do a lot of guys stay past 20 years? what is the average amount of years guys put in?
    There are only 200 guys over the age of 50 and there are only about 4 or 500 guys with 20+ years in the FF rank. I'd say most guys do retire in the vicinity of 20 years, but not all, not by a long shot. The job did hire a fair amount in '89, '90 and '91, but the numbers there are a bit skewed. I'd say it's a safe bet that a greater number of members from those years have been promoted than normal, due in large part to the tragedy of 9/11. That means that while some may retire, many have already been pulled out of the manpower due to being promoted.

    Keep this in mind: Those who are nearing retirement eligibility are graduates of a 7 or 8 week program, so smaller numbers reach the 20 year mark in more frequent batches annually as opposed to these 300 member 6 month classes, or even the 13 week classes prior. Every few months, more and more members are eligible for retirement and some are putting their papers in and calling it a career.

    I would say that the largest and slowest hiring years were in the mid-90's. There are a few 20 some-odd-year guys and then there are very few in the 15-18 year catagory, then it picks up with guys hired in 97-99 and having 11 and 12 years.

    There are some large classes that will be eligible for retirement during the lifetime of your list. Try to relax, as best you can. Especially those of you who were a sure thing for the most recently canceled class. You will most definitely get hired, just not as quickly as you might have liked.

    Study, run (don't worry about lifting.....at all), DON'T GET JAMMED UP WITH DWI or anything else and most of all, keep you eyes on the ball.

  6. #4081
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    Talking thanks

    thanks FDsouthbx for the info ...

  7. #4082
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    Default Gov. Patterson vetoes pension bill,

    June 3, 2009, 4:13 PM
    Paterson Vetoes Pension Bill, Drawing Union’s Fire
    By DANNY HAKIM

    ALBANY — Gov. David A. Paterson said Wednesday that he vetoed legislation that would have allowed new police officers and firefighters across the state to enroll for a category of pension benefits that was phased out for other public employees in the 1970s.

    His veto drew immediate praise from Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and was slammed by a top firefighters union.

    The legislation, which would have allowed newly hired police officers and firefighters to enroll for so-called “Tier II” pension benefits, has been routinely reauthorized since 1981. Mr. Paterson, however, has been trying to lower pension costs by persuading lawmakers and public employee unions to accept a new fifth pension tier with lesser benefits.

    Under his “Tier V” bill, police officers and firefighters would have to be at least 50 to retire and have put in at least 25 years of work, instead of the current 20. Civilian employees would not be able to retire until the age of 62, instead of the current 55. They would also have to start making their own contributions into the pension system after 10 years of service.

    “Nothing says ‘business as usual’ like a temporary fix that lasts 28 years,” the governor said in a statement. “Instead of a rubber stamp on a temporary fix, we need to move forward with real reform to the pension system.”

    Mr. Bloomberg called the veto “a gutsy decision” that “demonstrated his commitment to fiscal responsibility.”

    But Charles J. Morello, president of the New York State Professional Firefighters Association, said “no previous governor has treated labor so badly.”

    “We are shocked by this veto, which was accomplished without discussion or other communications with those affected,” he added.

  8. #4083
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    I would not be surprised if hiring starts again now that bloomberg got his
    I should have cleaned up the chili.....why didn't I clean up the chili!!!!!!

  9. #4084
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    if they change the whole pension system for PD FD the unions should seriously think about striking and see how the city stays for one whole day>>...the politicians dont understand because they work about 3 hours a week get paid nice money get alotta perks and kick backs maybe they dont know what the cost of living is in NYC...alot of retirees will leave the new york area a pension with out over time means you better apply for food stamps when you hit 50 years old who can live on 30g a year? one bed room in nice neighborhood to rent is about 1200 a month...politicians should trade jobs and pay for a year and see if they still wanna change the system...

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    I guess we'll have to first see if he doesn't shut down half the g****mn department...

  11. #4086
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadrunner09 View Post
    I guess we'll have to first see if he doesn't shut down half the g****mn department...
    then send this to your councilman and tell him your wishes, and that you wont vote for him if he allows it:

    Dear Councilman,


    Please consider this correspondence as one of the strongest opinions of opposition your office has ever received. I strongly oppose any budget put forth by the mayor, which includes the proposed cuts to either 16 individual companies, or to the elimination of the 5th man within 65 engine companies in the FDNY.


    The Fire Department of New York City is a vital city agency that can and must be likened to that of the Police Department and Department of Education. The cuts that the commissioner has proposed will absolutely have a negative impact on the communities that they serve. The commissioners’ proposal to eliminate the 5th man from 65 engine companies will also have a significantly negative impact in those communities. Those 65 engine companies are not chosen at random to have extra manning; they are placed at companies where the workload for the firefighters is highest. Studies by the FDNY have shown that there is a SIGNIFICANT reduction in the amount of time it takes to get water on a fire when the 5th man is added into the equation.


    I challenge you sir, to vote no for any budget that includes these cuts. In a city budget of over 50 billion dollars, please provide the 25 million the FDNY needs to keep operating in the current safe and efficient manner. These cuts jeopardize life and limb of citizens and firefighters alike.


    Councilman, should you support the FDNY in this matter, I can promise you that you will have the support of my family, friends, neighbors and myself. Thank you for your time.




    Respectfully yours,




    Your Name

    Constituent of Your District

    Your address

    Your Address
    I should have cleaned up the chili.....why didn't I clean up the chili!!!!!!

  12. #4087
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    Default Fdny

    So does this officially mean that all future hires for NYPD and FDNY beginning July 1, 2009 will have to do 25 years service and be minimum 50yrs old to retire?
    Last edited by QCFRANKC; 06-04-2009 at 06:48 PM. Reason: needed to add

  13. #4088
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    Quote Originally Posted by QCFRANKC View Post
    So does this officially mean that all future hires for NYPD and FDNY beginning July 1, 2009 will have to do 25 years service and be minimum 50yrs old to retire?
    No the legislature can override his veto. Many people think they will. The bill Paterson vetoed passed in the assembly 136-6 and in the senate 58-0, and as we all know Paterson isn't the most popular politician out there so I wouldn't think many lawmakers would want to be seen supporting him. At least I hope they won't.

  14. #4089
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    No the legislature can override his veto. Many people think they will. The bill Paterson vetoed passed in the assembly 136-6 and in the senate 58-0, and as we all know Paterson isn't the most popular politician out there so I wouldn't think many lawmakers would want to be seen supporting him. At least I hope they won't.
    I read somewhere that the assembly and senate can overule a pardon with a 2/3's vote, i hear something about summer recess coming up soon so i'll imagine this will stay in the limelight.
    I should have cleaned up the chili.....why didn't I clean up the chili!!!!!!

  15. #4090
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    Default whats up

    i3akdraf were u at the rock for the 1.5

  16. #4091
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    Default Or maybe they won't override the veto.

    ALBANY -- Lawmakers said yesterday they were in no hurry to override Gov. Paterson's surprise veto of a perennial pension-sweetener for cops and firefighters, suggesting the Legislature would let unions fight for the issue in contract talks.

    Paterson's veto of the "temporary" measure, which for 28 years had allowed first responders to retire with more generous pensions, came as the governor warned of the possible layoffs of 8,700 state workers unless unions forgo raises and agree to scale back retirement benefits.

    "I don't think, upon reflection, that the Legislature will override my veto, because it was the right decision and I think they will see that," Paterson said.

    "The Legislature knows that, too, but everyone is afraid to tell the truth," he added.

    Lawmakers at the Capitol were stunned by the veto, which leaves cops and firefighters hired after July 1 in pension limbo.

    The bill had passed both houses with only a handful of "no" votes. But several lawmakers said they were content to let layoff negotiations play out before any attempts to muster a rare two-thirds override vote.

    "If they can work something out between them, there might not be a need for an override," said Assembly Governmental Employees Committee Chairman Peter Abbate (D-Brooklyn), who, with state Sen. Diane Savino (D-SI), sponsored the bill.

    Senate Majority Leader Malcolm Smith, who voted for the measure, nonetheless said he supports the veto and had not discussed an override with Senate Democrats.

    "I say, 'Good for the governor,' " said Smith (D-Queens). "I called him this morning. I said, 'You did a good job.' "

    Paterson and the state's top two labor unions are close to a deal that could include a buyout package and some pension concessions, sources said.

    Paterson's veto was seen by some as a way to force police and firefighter unions to the table, since he only recently included uniformed workers from upstate and Long Island in his pension plans.

    "It's a dangerous bargaining position," said Sen. Andrew Lanza (R-SI). "If we're simply going to veto that bill without a solution for folks, then I think it's a mistake and I think it ought to be overridden."

    Uniformed Firefighters Association Vice President Jim Slevin called Paterson's strategy "misguided" and said the union believes that any new city firefighters would be left out of a pension plan altogether without further action.

    "He hasn't been making any wise decisions," Slevin said.

    The governor hopes to save $48 billion over the next 30 years by, among other things, raising the minimum retirement age and banning overtime "spiking," where workers run up OT in their final years to boost pension payouts.

    Veto overrides are extremely rare in Albany. The last time the Legislature overrode a veto of a nonbudget bill was 1996.

  17. #4092
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    20-year pensions and possibility to be FULLY retired at 40-years old are one of the reasons this city is going bankrupt - the pension payroll is almost as big as the active employees payroll at this moment, and is expected to exceed it in the next couple of years. in this case, the 50-year old limit is going to be a good law. also, don't forget that people's life expectancy climbs higher by the year. ask a 65-year old what he/she thinks about a "kid" in his early 40s retiring. you might not like what i have to say, but if you ask me, this whole idea of "20 and out" is f...in ridiculous and is milking nyc dry.

  18. #4093
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongQuest View Post
    i3akdraf were u at the rock for the 1.5
    Nah my list number is 1092 guess they didn't make it that far but I did everything else. I was one of those candidates they prepared for the July class at the last second, was told I was lock for Jan and currently sitting in career purgatory.
    Last edited by I3akdraf; 06-05-2009 at 06:12 PM.

  19. #4094
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    Quote Originally Posted by fdnyfreak View Post
    20-year pensions and possibility to be FULLY retired at 40-years old are one of the reasons this city is going bankrupt - the pension payroll is almost as big as the active employees payroll at this moment, and is expected to exceed it in the next couple of years. in this case, the 50-year old limit is going to be a good law. also, don't forget that people's life expectancy climbs higher by the year. ask a 65-year old what he/she thinks about a "kid" in his early 40s retiring. you might not like what i have to say, but if you ask me, this whole idea of "20 and out" is f...in ridiculous and is milking nyc dry.
    Wow! Do you work for the nypost? Sounds like you've been easily influenced by the bs you've been fed by bloomturd and company. Do you know there are municipalities where firefighters can retire after 15 years with 50% of your last years salary and after 20 years 80% and each year it goes up. NYC and bloomberg have plenty of money, please don't have sympathy for either.

    Ask a 65 year old in the private sector how often they've put they're life on the line and how many years they've been breathing in extremely high amounts of toxins. You being a candidate for firefighter need to get yourself more involved in the job you've been hoping to make your career. Not only are they trying to raise the amount of years we must work, we will have to contribute much more to our pensions, wait longer to be vested, and there will be a limit to how much overtime will be factored into your last years salary. This is a disgrace and so are you.

  20. #4095
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    Quote Originally Posted by fdnyfreak View Post
    20-year pensions and possibility to be FULLY retired at 40-years old are one of the reasons this city is going bankrupt - the pension payroll is almost as big as the active employees payroll at this moment, and is expected to exceed it in the next couple of years. in this case, the 50-year old limit is going to be a good law. also, don't forget that people's life expectancy climbs higher by the year. ask a 65-year old what he/she thinks about a "kid" in his early 40s retiring. you might not like what i have to say, but if you ask me, this whole idea of "20 and out" is f...in ridiculous and is milking nyc dry.
    Are you even on earth??

    Police and fire pensions arent "bankrupting" anything. If you feel like investigating where metric sh1tloads of money is being wasted, start with welfare, section 8 housing, and medicaid going to multiple generations of perfectly able-bodied members of the same families.

    Then when your blood starts to boil, take a break and look into what similarly educated/trained individuals in private sector jobs take home, compared to members of the FDNY. The pension is just an equilizer for wages not collected during the life of the working career.

    Make no mistake, the city gets a real sweet deal on 20+ year interest-free loans from ever single one of us.

    Then again, the private sector workers, regardless of job description. probably dont worry about getting burned, choked out by smoke, falling off buildings, down shafts, crushed and burried in a collapse, or showing up on the front page of a newspaper for having a beer off duty.

    On top of that, think about the end result of that plan, the 55 year old fireman, lugging 100+ pounds of gear up an unsteady aerial to pull someone you care about out of harms way, or waiting for him to vent the bulkhead of hell-unleashed on your own head on the fire floor.

    How many 50+ year olds do you know up for that task every single day? Save the exception, consider the rule.

    Or rewind, to the start of that same guys career:

    "Hello, pool of applicants. The pay of this job isnt great, but its okay. And the benefits just took a major dump. Youll have to work longer, reach a minimum age before you can retire, lay out a bunch of your own money for healthcare- which you will be using more and more of the later you work past your physical prime- and your coworkers wont be the blue-chips we once recruited... Being that their talents were more fairly compensated and appreciated elsewhere, youll be working with some somewhat skelly people. Dont worry though! We have ensured that they had 6 months of work experience... doing something... somewhere... Point is, youre in good hands! Now lets get to that mile and a half run. Remember, if you dont finish in time, youre fired! Unless you dont finish in time, in that case, you can run again. Lets get to it!"

    This is a young persons job. Theres a reason the officers hand out assignments at jobs, instead of doing all the leg work themselves. Owls and Bulls! They earned the right to use their head at work by paying attention when they were being paid for their neck-down efforts early on.

    Before that 65 year old gets crotchety over someone else's hard-earned- and well deserved- retirement, let him take a crack at FST.

    And have a bus on stand-by.

    20 and Out is one of a few stout and scarce pillars ensuring the public's safety, as well as our own. Undermining them would be no different than lighting a short fuse on a huge time bomb.

    Its a really bad idea.

  21. #4096
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    Quote Originally Posted by I3akdraf View Post
    ..... sitting in career purgatory.

    i hear you, i was in the exact same boat, my list number is right around yours
    I should have cleaned up the chili.....why didn't I clean up the chili!!!!!!

  22. #4097
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    Quote Originally Posted by fdnyfreak View Post
    20-year pensions and possibility to be FULLY retired at 40-years old are one of the reasons this city is going bankrupt - the pension payroll is almost as big as the active employees payroll at this moment, and is expected to exceed it in the next couple of years. in this case, the 50-year old limit is going to be a good law. also, don't forget that people's life expectancy climbs higher by the year. ask a 65-year old what he/she thinks about a "kid" in his early 40s retiring. you might not like what i have to say, but if you ask me, this whole idea of "20 and out" is f...in ridiculous and is milking nyc dry.
    if you want to be a fireman, chances are you are going to be on the side of labor, not management for most of if not your whole career. Get it in your head that anything that is good for the men is the right and only way things should be.
    I should have cleaned up the chili.....why didn't I clean up the chili!!!!!!

  23. #4098
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    Quote Originally Posted by fdnyfreak View Post
    and here's what i got in response to one of my e-mails:


    Thank you for your email in opposition to the proposed budget cuts faced by the New York City Fire Department.

    I agree with you on this issue. The Fire Department offers vital services to our city that cannot be underestimated. Public safety should not and cannot be sacrificed. Such a strategy will cost the city more in the long run. Budget cuts will have to be made elsewhere.

    Please be assured that I will do everything I can to prevent these devastating cuts, and I will urge my colleagues in the City Council to do the same.

    Again, thank you for your email. Please feel free to contact my office should you have additional questions or concerns.

    Sincerely,
    Jessica Lappin
    --
    Office of Council Member Jessica Lappin
    330 East 63rd Street, Suite 1K
    New York, NY 10065
    Phone: 212-980-1808
    Fax: 212-980-1828


    our voices are being heard, gentlemen =)
    Umm, whose side are you on, claiming you sent out emails opposing the mayor one day and the next supporting his stance against the job you want. Remember men in the position you want to be in fought hard to get the benefits FF have today.

  24. #4099
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    Don't want to do this job for an extra 5 years? Don't take it at all then.

    I can retire at 20 and as far as I'm concerned they're gonna have to drag me outta here kicking and screaming. I have no use for they guy who hasn't even gotten on and is worrying about "serving" his time and being able to duck on out.


    Being a firefighter isn't what you do, it's who you are. If you're not on board with that, go work in some small town cush dept where you can get paid to sit around all day. You can do 20 years without ever going into a fire, or for that matter, making a difference to anyone ever.

  25. #4100
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    Im with you 100% on that; what important to recognize is that theres way more to tier 5 than just "having" to work another 5 years.

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