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  1. #10226
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    Havent logged in since the city rejected all of our beloved Judges hiring options and for that I apoligize......This does keep hiring firefighters in demmand but I believe our list expires on January the 11th of this year. Can this be extended? the judge hasnt officially made his final ruling being that he is a spineless ***** with an agenda rather than an officer of the court who took an oath to make fair and reasonable judgments.


    Keep praying for snow! the more snow the more pressure on the city to hire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ready4firehire View Post
    Havent logged in since the city rejected all of our beloved Judges hiring options and for that I apoligize......This does keep hiring firefighters in demmand but I believe our list expires on January the 11th of this year. Can this be extended? the judge hasnt officially made his final ruling being that he is a spineless ***** with an agenda rather than an officer of the court who took an oath to make fair and reasonable judgments.


    Keep praying for snow! the more snow the more pressure on the city to hire.
    whoa, not for nothin, but where have you been the whole time, exp. is June 2012

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    http://meritmattersusa.blogspot.com/...t-meeting.html


    Everyone should make the effort to attend this meeting

  4. #10229
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    true words bro.
    Last edited by Yo; 01-08-2011 at 12:59 AM.

  5. #10230
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    JANUARY 10, 2011, 4:42 P.M. ET.After diversity lawsuit, FDNY hiring sits in limbo . Associated Press

    NEW YORK — Paul Washington is a New York City firefighter, like his dad and his uncle before him. His brother is also on the job. Some of his cousins are firefighters, too.

    Family legacies aren't unusual in the Fire Department of New York, but the Washingtons are — because they are black. And the nation's largest fire department remains an overwhelmingly white force.

    But a federal lawsuit, a court order and a revamped application system are offering a glimmer of a future in which the FDNY could become as diverse as the population it serves — a goal other big-city departments have already achieved.

    In a city of 8 million where more than half the population belongs to a racial or ethnic minority, only 9 percent of the 11,200 uniformed firefighters are black or Hispanic.

    "This is New York City," said Washington, the catalyst for a federal hiring-discrimination lawsuit against the city. "We're the most diverse, interesting place in the world, and our other city agencies reflect that, so why shouldn't the Fire Department?"

    No new firefighters are being hired for the FDNY until a test deemed discriminatory by a federal judge can be redone. In the meantime, the department is paying overtime to bridge a gap of about 300 firefighters. Potential candidates wait, taking other jobs in the meantime.

    Jamel Nicholson, 35, who is black, took the exam in 2002, scoring nearly perfect on the physical exam and getting a 74 percent on the written exam. He waited in vain, though, and instead ended up a subway conductor.

    "I still want to do it. My views haven't changed after all this time," said Nicholson, who has taken some community college courses. "It's affected me a great deal. I really wanted to help people — especially after 9/11."

    But Washington — a firefighter for more than 20 years who was president of the Vulcan Society, an FDNY fraternal organization, when he pushed for the lawsuit — wants more than just a new test. In court papers last month, lawyers for the society asked that the exam, now given every four years, be offered more frequently.

    They also requested that a professional minority consultant help craft a recruitment program; urged the use of innovative recruiting tools like Facebook; and suggested bringing back a cadet program to encourage more minority involvement.

    Washington also wants city high school graduates to get bonus points. Right now, firefighters get points for residency, but Washington says it's easy to fake. The city is weighing the proposal.

    In Los Angeles, 14 percent of the 3,500 or so firefighters are black, and about 30 percent are Hispanic. In Philadelphia, 26 percent are black and 3 percent Hispanic among 2,400 firefighters. Those demographics reflect overall city populations or, in the case of Los Angeles, are more diverse than the city.

    Not so in New York. Washington's family legacy was something he wished for other black city residents, and after failed attempts to change the racial makeup from within the department, he filed his complaint about 12 years ago with the U.S. Equal Opportunity Employment Commission.

    The complaint charged that the exam given to FDNY applicants was littered with SAT-like questions that didn't adequately test for firefighting skills. The exam is the weightiest factor in determining where a candidate gets on a hiring list; a physical test and a few other components also play a role.

    "This test isn't proving who's the best for the job — this test is proving who got a good education," Washington said. "There's an education gap in this country, and everybody knows it. So to pretend, after 12 years of bad schooling, there's a level playing field and telling them to sit down and compete — it's disingenuous."

    The U.S. Department of Justice took up the case and filed a federal lawsuit, and a judge ruled in 2009 in favor of the Vulcan Society and the Justice Department. In a separate decision, the judge said the test was being used to discriminate intentionally and called it a "stain" on an otherwise sterling department.

    While it appeals the decision, the city has made significant strides in recruiting minority candidates — an effort it says was not brought on by the legal fight.

    Applicants no longer need college credits and can apply if they graduated from high school and held a full-time job for six months or served in the military.

    So far this year, 4,445 recruiting events have been held.

    "I know firsthand that being a firefighter is 'the best job in the world,' and I want all young people to have an opportunity to understand the benefits of the job and hopefully choose to apply and take the test," Fire Commissioner Salvatore Cassano said in December.

    And minorities increasingly say they are interested in the job. In 2007, the last time the test was offered, more than 40 percent of the applicants were minorities — more than double the previous time the test had been offered. Among those who passed the test, 18 percent were Hispanic, 12 percent black and 3 percent Asian.

    The new test may take as long as a year to redo, and it's not clear what will happen to candidates who were already on the waiting list.

    The city rejected five court-ordered options that would've allowed it to hire with the old test, saying they imposed race-based quotas. The city's top lawyer, Michael Cardozo, has said a third of the top test-takers waiting to be hired were minorities.

    Diversity doesn't necessarily end race-related problems. In Houston, where the city's 3,800-member fire department is 17 percent black and 19 percent Hispanic, firefighters received sensitivity training after allegations arose that a noose was found in a firefighter's locker.

    Chicago's 4,300-member fire department, the nation's second-largest, is 20 percent black, and 8 percent Hispanic, reflecting the city's general demographic makeup. But the Supreme Court ruled in May that a lawsuit by black members could go forward, challenging the city's decades-old admissions test.

    In New York, Washington said, he wants to see the department reflect the city.

    "You get such respect from the community; it's great," he said. "It creates a whole ripple effect for the future. Shouldn't everyone have the chance for that?"

    —Copyright 2011 Associated Press

    http://online.wsj.com/article/AP0128...828b698cf.html
    Last edited by Queens6019; 01-10-2011 at 06:47 PM.

  6. #10231
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    After diversity lawsuit, FDNY hiring sits in limbo
    by COLLEEN LONG Associated Press 04:35 AM Jan 11, 2011NEW YORK (AP) - The Fire Department of New York is seeing a glimmer of diversity on the horizon after a federal lawsuit forced it to revamp its hiring practices.

    Other big-city departments are already more diverse and reflective of their populations, including Los Angeles and Philadelphia. The lawsuit and its outcomes may change things in New York.

    A new application exam is being created. The department is recruiting heavily and says more minorities are interested in joining.

    Lawyers asked in court papers last month that the exam given to applicants be offered more frequently than every four years.

    They also requested that a professional minority consultant help craft a recruitment program; urged the use of innovative recruiting tools like Facebook; and suggested bringing back a cadet program to encourage more minority involvement.

    - AP
    http://online.wsj.com/article/AP0128...828b698cf.html

  7. #10232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queens6019 View Post
    After diversity lawsuit, FDNY hiring sits in limbo
    by COLLEEN LONG Associated Press 04:35 AM Jan 11, 2011NEW YORK (AP) - The Fire Department of New York is seeing a glimmer of diversity on the horizon after a federal lawsuit forced it to revamp its hiring practices.

    Other big-city departments are already more diverse and reflective of their populations, including Los Angeles and Philadelphia. The lawsuit and its outcomes may change things in New York.

    A new application exam is being created. The department is recruiting heavily and says more minorities are interested in joining.

    Lawyers asked in court papers last month that the exam given to applicants be offered more frequently than every four years.

    They also requested that a professional minority consultant help craft a recruitment program; urged the use of innovative recruiting tools like Facebook; and suggested bringing back a cadet program to encourage more minority involvement.

    - AP
    http://online.wsj.com/article/AP0128...828b698cf.html

    I read the article earlier today and it just made me want to vomit. Man, if there really is GOD he'll undo all this b.s. and have them hire off our list... Fock.
    6019- was sitting at 13xx
    2000- now sitting at 18xx

  8. #10233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queens6019 View Post
    Washington also wants city high school graduates to get bonus points. Right now, firefighters get points for residency, but Washington says it's easy to fake. The city is weighing the proposal.


    Ugh seriously, this again??


    So what if you went to school in the 5 boroughs up until 10th or 11th grade and then had to move out and finish in Mt. Vernon or Roosevelt or Haverstraw?? That's not good enough??

    What if some kid living in Scarsdale commuted to a private school in Manhattan??

    This proposition is such B.S. How can someone get penalized for something they had no control over as a kid?

    Go ahead and really crack down on proving residency, that's fine. But this can't happen. Looks like we might have to hit up our councilmembers again (granted some of us even get to take the test again)

  9. #10234

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    Gotta love this clown Washington and his abject nonsense. Yeah, let's hire some more idiots that can't read and write. Then we can give them another hand out and make them officers. Who cares if the department reflects the population? Do you want some useless affirmitive action lacky coming to your door, or would do you want the best person your tax dollars could buy? If you want this job STUDY. Would IBM hire idiots? Why should the fire service? This is one reason why the fire service has gone to the dogs. Buy the way Firehouse....were do you stand on this issue? A little to the pc side I suspect.

  10. #10235
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    Been awhile since the last post. Whats up with the City lawyers? Seems like

    the Mayor of America is willing to sit back and let a few dozen people destroy

    this job. Just bring back the college credit requirement and that would solve

    a lot of the problems. That recent post about other Cities and their % of

    minorities on the job was a direct result of QUOTAS. The judge stated that

    he was going to give his remedy in the fall I believe. Last time I looked it

    was Jan 11th, 2011.

  11. #10236
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    Anybody have the official report for Judge Garaufis from Mary Jo White of progress made regarding the new test? The last official document was sent out October 1st I believe and in that report, White stated she would update the court every three months on progress. That second report should have been sent to Garaufis on Jan. 1st.

    *EDIT*

    My mistake. That report won't be coming until February.
    Last edited by FDNY5; 01-11-2011 at 10:33 PM.

  12. #10237
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    Forget it...
    Last edited by simpllyhuge; 01-12-2011 at 10:56 AM.

  13. #10238
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopman View Post
    This is one reason why the fire service has gone to the dogs. suspect.
    What makes you say this? Are you a member? Have you recently had a fire in your house or community that wasn't responded to quick enough or put out (snowstorm excluded)? What evidence do you have to make this comment? Are you referring to more minorities coming on the job? Sounds a tad racist to me considering everyone CURRENTLY on the job has gotten there without any quota or forced hiring. Are you referring to the future of the department? As a member I personally take offense to this statement. Why try and join a department that according to you has "gone to the dogs?" Go join another department.

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    I was thinking about how they took away the college credits (not sure when that happened) and suppose they do make the test easier, then how would they formulate a list if a large amount of people get a 100? For example what if 1000 people get a 100 and only 300 can fit in a class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simpllyhuge View Post
    I was thinking about how they took away the college credits (not sure when that happened) and suppose they do make the test easier, then how would they formulate a list if a large amount of people get a 100? For example what if 1000 people get a 100 and only 300 can fit in a class.
    I respect your opinion however, I posted this a while back. Lot of people don't agree with me, many on the job do. I am actually a college graduate with a BA.

    "I never suggested dumbing down the physical or academy, if anything I think the physical should be tougher and the academy too. This is where the weeding out of candidates should take place, not those who couldn't afford to go to college. College does not equal common sense. I work with plenty of college graduates who have none. There are always going to be **** bags that get on the job and many of the **** bags I know on this job have college degrees too. The thing that I see on the job and especially with younger guys many of whom have college degrees is that lots of them have never used a tool or done a physical job in their life. THIS JOB REQUIRES THE USE OF TOOLS! Traditionally it is made up of guys who come from trade jobs where they are used to using tools. I'm not saying that this can't be learned and I'm not trying to put college degrees down, but this is what I see in the field and I know alot of guys on the job will agree with me. I feel that a college degree is not necessary for the rank of FF and many of us agree with practice of eliminating the college credit requirement. I think it was a good move to remove the college credit."
    Last edited by FDNY78; 01-12-2011 at 01:40 PM.

  16. #10241
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    Well I wasn't aware of you're previous post on the subject and I wasn't really stating an opinion about the college credits, I meant it more as an actual question on how they would create a list. Hypothetically, lets say half the people get a 100, how would they organize the classes? Im just curious since Im trying to anticipate what will happen.

    I don't really feel one way or another about the college credits. I think that maybe it could be a good thing if they kept the requirement because the people who really want the job could then go and get the credits to prove themselves over the ones who don't want it as badly and aren't willing to do so. I am not in the FD so I really don't know and don't have an opinion on it. I do have a bachelors but don't think it would make me a better fire fighter, I am curious how they are gonna decide who gets the job.
    Last edited by simpllyhuge; 01-12-2011 at 03:08 PM.

  17. #10242
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpllyhuge View Post
    I was thinking about how they took away the college credits (not sure when that happened) and suppose they do make the test easier, then how would they formulate a list if a large amount of people get a 100? For example what if 1000 people get a 100 and only 300 can fit in a class.
    It goes by your SS#. xxx-xx-1234 gets hired before xxx-xx-1235

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    Quote Originally Posted by simpllyhuge View Post
    Well I wasn't aware of you're previous post on the subject and I wasn't really stating an opinion about the college credits, I meant it more as an actual question on how they would create a list. Hypothetically, lets say half the people get a 100, how would they organize the classes? Im just curious since Im trying to anticipate what will happen.
    Obviously there would be a new written test, which is in the works. I saw no problem with the old one, but that's besides the point. I was referring to the college requirement, I never suggested doing away with a written test.

    Quote Originally Posted by simpllyhuge View Post
    I don't really feel one way or another about the college credits. I think that maybe it could be a good thing if they kept the requirement because the people who really want the job could then go and get the credits to prove themselves over the ones who don't want it as badly and aren't willing to do so. I am not in the FD so I really don't know and don't have an opinion on it. I do have a bachelors
    College credits would work, if it was proven that a college degree makes one a better firefighter. I know of no such proof. Why should someone have to go out and get college credits for something that doesn't have a significant impact on how they perform the job of firefighter? So the FDNY can categorize them better on some list? That doesn't seem fair. Really wanting the job has nothing to do with going out and getting college credits. It has everything to do with who has the money and resources to do so, which to me would be a form of discrimination against those who don't.
    Last edited by FDNY78; 01-12-2011 at 02:54 PM.

  19. #10244
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDNY78 View Post
    Obviously there would be a new written test, which is in the works. I saw no problem with the old one, but that's besides the point. I was referring to the college requirement, I never suggested doing away with a written test.


    College credits would work, if it was proven that a college degree makes one a better firefighter. I know of no such proof. Why should someone have to go out and get college credits for something that doesn't have a significant impact on how they perform the job of firefighter? So the FDNY can categorize them better on some list? That doesn't seem fair. Really wanting the job has nothing to do with going out and getting college credits. It has everything to do with who has the money and resources to do so, which to me would be a form of discrimination against those who don't.
    I never thought you suggested doing away with the test, I think you are under the impression I am disagreeing with you when I had no stance at all and was just asking a question. My only question was answered by Sean South who explained that in the case of identical scores they go by social security numbers.
    like I said I don't really feel one way or the other about the college credits.
    Last edited by simpllyhuge; 01-12-2011 at 03:11 PM.

  20. #10245
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpllyhuge View Post
    I never thought you suggested doing away with the test, I think you are under the impression I am disagreeing with you when I had no stance at all and was just asking a question. My only question was answered by Sean South who explained that in the case of identical scores they go by social security numbers.
    like I said I don't really feel one way or the other about the college credits.
    I really don't care if you agree with me or not. You were suggesting that you thought...
    Quote Originally Posted by simpllyhuge View Post
    ...it could be a good thing if they kept the college requirement because the people who really want the job could then go and get the credits to prove themselves over the ones who don't want it as badly and aren't willing to do so.
    I was explaining how keeping college credits would be a bad idea in my opinion. This is a forum we are exchanging information. If you throw out a suggestion it may be disputed, whether or not you care one way or the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDNY78 View Post
    I really don't care if you agree with me or not. You were suggesting that you thought...

    I was explaining how keeping college credits would be a bad idea in my opinion. This is a forum we are exchanging information. If you throw out a suggestion it may be disputed, whether or not you care one way or the other.
    Thats fine, I understand the point of a forum. I was referring to the first part where you said something like " I never suggested doing away with a written test" I never said you did.
    I really don't know what you are saying at this point, whats the difference,I was trying to be polite and it seems you're trying to make that difficult. The other poster clearly understood what I was asking and answered it in one sentence, and I already pointed out that my question was answered so unless your looking to argue with me then thats it. I'm not looking to argue. Thanks to the both of you.
    Last edited by simpllyhuge; 01-12-2011 at 04:02 PM.

  22. #10247
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpllyhuge View Post
    Thats fine, I understand the point of a forum. I was referring to the first part where you said something like " I never suggested doing away with a written test" I never said you did.
    I really don't know what you are saying at this point, whats the difference,I was trying to be polite and it seems you're trying to make that difficult. The other poster clearly understood what I was asking and answered it in one sentence, and I already pointed out that my question was answered so unless your looking to argue with me then thats it. I'm not looking to argue. Thanks to the both of you.
    ok I see where the confusion was. I misunderstood your question and misread your post. I thought you were wondering how the lists were ranked if everyone got 100 on the physical and there was no written test due to the fact that it was deemed bias and therefore thrown out (which I somehow concocted in my mind). Don't ask me how I got that from your post!! lol. I'm a retarded FF. It says nothing of the sort. I was wondering why seansouth was talking about ss#'s. Now it makes sense. Anyway sorry for the confusion. I'll go back to viewing as I'm not one who does alot of posting. I guess that's why I'm a fireman and not an editor.

  23. #10248
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    I think keeping college credits is a no brainer. The department already gets a huge number of candidates who apply. Without the credits that number would sky rocket. By having a requirement of college credits it weeds out the people who don't care enough about the job to go to school and get them. Its just one more way to make sure the people who are getting hired actually want this job 110%. I went as far as joining the military for the veterans points. This job takes a level of dedication and while having college credits won't make someone a better firefighter it will show the dedication one has to getting the job. Anyone who gets handed this job doesn't deserve it.
    FDNY Exam 6019 List# 14XX.
    Lawsuit Victim: Completed process, cancelled academy.

    FDNY Exam 2000 List# 6XX.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDNY78 View Post
    ok I see where the confusion was. I misunderstood your question and misread your post. I thought you were wondering how the lists were ranked if everyone got 100 on the physical and there was no written test due to the fact that it was deemed bias and therefore thrown out (which I somehow concocted in my mind). Don't ask me how I got that from your post!! lol. I'm a retarded FF. It says nothing of the sort. I was wondering why seansouth was talking about ss#'s. Now it makes sense. Anyway sorry for the confusion. I'll go back to viewing as I'm not one who does alot of posting. I guess that's why I'm a fireman and not an editor.
    its cool I appreciate you took the time to answer my questions in the first place.

    Any way so what I have gathered today in my hours of rereading the same posts over and over again is.... They might offer another test as soon as in the next year, which I might make the cutoff for since I just turned 28 in november. They might extend the age to 35 but its not definite. Even if they do extend the age and I get a chance to sit for the test, I would have to score a 95 being a resident to have a good chance of getting called behind the people who do well and have the veteran points. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by nightowl75 View Post
    Without the credits that number would sky rocket.

    You realize you can already use 6 months of work experience in lieu of them right??

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