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Thread: Fdny List 6019

  1. #11226
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    When can the city appeal the ruling. If this is the final ruling then can't the city start to appeal to the circut courts?

  2. #11227
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    I'm confused, what's happening now that's different then before? I thought we knew all this?
    Last edited by BrooklynBorn; 06-07-2011 at 02:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBorn View Post
    I'm confused, what's happening now that's different then before? I thought we knew all this?
    I believe originally we were waiting for a final ruling but according to that article, the process will be delay put the appeal further on the back burner.

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    How does one man have so much power? There has to be some way that things can be sped up. I just can't believe how one man can be more powerful than the Fire commissioner, the city, and the Mayor. There's gotta be a loophole somewhere because I can't fathom how a lower court can do this. How long did the Connecticut FF case stay in a low court before appeal? How about the NFL? If the NFL ended tomorrow forever there would be no significant impact anywhere because it's just a game yet the FD can just rot from people outside of it. I'll tell ya boy liberals make me sick to my stomach, first they try to mess with the military with social engineering (the one and only effective govt organization) and now this. Something's gotta give sooner or later because people can't take this anymore

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    Judge Says Appointee Should Handle FDNY Claims Process Following Discrimination Suit
    Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 02:39 PM

    By Annmarie Fertoli : Assistant Producer, WNYC/WQXR News


    A federal judge who deemed the FDNY's entrance exam discriminatory has issued new orders to guide a claims process that could provide compensation for thousands of candidates who say they didn't get the job due to an unfair test.

    In a court order and memorandum issued Monday, Brooklyn Judge Nicholas Garaufis recommended appointing a "special master" to oversee the individual claims process, adding in his order that it's "the most appropriate mechanism for the speedy resolution of these individual questions."

    Garaufis will make a final decision on whether to appoint a special master, after discussing the issue with both parties in the case.

    Darius Charney, who represents the Vulcan Society the group that originally filed the discrimination suit called the proposal a fair one, and said it's important to have a neutral, third party involved.

    "Our major concern is that the process be transparent, that it be fair, and that you know every applicant has the same opportunity to prove that in fact they were eligible to be hired, except for the fact that the test was discriminatory," said Charney, who noted the compensation amounts could be in the tens of millions of dollars.

    Meanwhile, the city is working with Charney's group and others to write a new entrance exam that will allow it to hire new firefighters.

    "We are currently developing the next exam and expect to announce the registration period around the beginning of July, with the exam to be administered around December," said Georgia Pestana, chief of the Labor and Employment Division at the city's law department.

    She said the city doesn't "have any information on how a referee might work beyond what's in the decision."

    The city has rejected previous hiring proposals suggested by the judge back in September claiming the proposed methods all rely on "race-based quota" options. Without a new test, the city has been unable to hire additional firefighters.

  6. #11231
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    "Our major concern is that the process be transparent, that it be fair, and that you know every applicant has the same opportunity to prove that in fact they were eligible to be hired, except for the fact that the test was discriminatory," said Charney, who noted the compensation amounts could be in the tens of millions of dollars.

    The same argument could be made for the white applicants who took the test but didnt score well enough to get hired.
    Last edited by BrooklynBorn; 06-07-2011 at 05:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MerritMatters View Post
    I believe originally we were waiting for a final ruling but according to that article, the process will be delay put the appeal further on the back burner.
    yea iam starting to think its a bad thing for 6019. this sucks

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    Darius Charney, who represents the Vulcan Society the group that originally filed the discrimination suit called the proposal a fair one, and said it's important to have a neutral, third party involved.



    Wow, that is friggin hilarious. The idea that ANYONE this judge appoints would be neutral is utterly absurd. There is no chance of fair negotiations as long as this clown is the one assigning "special masters" and "referees".

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    [6019. 6019. 6019. 6019. 6019. 6019. 6019. 6019. 6019.
    Last edited by FairHiringFDNY; 08-08-2011 at 11:25 PM.

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    Just read the court docs. http://youtu.be/Db2A9MM-VNw

    gotta release the steam going for a run .

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    I was curious if any one saw that the vulcans have a documentery. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkUgm...e_gdata_player
    Last edited by BrooklynBorn; 06-07-2011 at 10:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBorn View Post
    I was curious if any one saw that the vulcans have a documentery. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkUgm...e_gdata_player
    "how you say it's racist? you feel it in your gut".


    Well that settles that then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    Explain to me why you, as a NYC resident, deserve more points than someone outside of the city. So far, all youve given me is "other cities do it too".
    Regardless of the reason the residency credit was originally implemented I think NYC residents DO deserve the job more! We live here it's our home and we want to protect it. Relax It's human nature and it's my opinion. It's only natural for people to feel that way. I'm sure people in towns outside the city would feel the same if they had thousands of guys were trying to take away jobs in their little town. Why should someone from out of town come and take jobs away from those that live here? And don't give me the "We want the most qualified candidates no matter where they are from crap." Spoken like a a true out of towner. I have nothing against guys from out of town getting on the job I just think those who live here should have preference and the residency credit, though highly flawed helps. There are more than enough people that would be great firefighters here in the city. Aside from the physical, which you have to pass anyway to be considered, the written is BS and doesn't prove who would be a good firefighter or not. Getting one or 2 questions right doesn't mean s*** on the fire floor. It's a job you learn in the field and that's all I'll say on the subject. We can agree to disagree.
    Last edited by Takethedoor174; 06-07-2011 at 10:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JerkAlert View Post
    "Hey Mav, you still got the number to that truck driving school?"
    Funny yesterday... even more applicable today.

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    Default INfo from Chief of Operations

    On a lighter note. I went for my annual medical this week and the chief of operations, chief Sweeney spoke to us for about an hour. As far as proby's go he said that he expects the filing date for the new test to be nov or dec with the test being administered sometime next spring. Not set in stone just what we heard from a 4 star chief.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Takethedoor174 View Post
    Regardless of the reason the residency credit was originally implemented I think NYC residents DO deserve the job more! We live here it's our home and we want to protect it. Relax It's human nature and it's my opinion. It's only natural for people to feel that way. I'm sure people in towns outside the city would feel the same if they had thousands of guys were trying to take away jobs in their little town. Why should someone from out of town come and take jobs away from those that live here? And don't give me the "We want the most qualified candidates no matter where they are from crap." Spoken like a a true out of towner. There are more than enough people that would be great firefighters here in the city. Aside from the physical, which you have to pass anyway to be considered, the written is BS and doesn't prove who would be a good firefighter or not. Getting one or 2 questions right doesn't mean s*** on the fire floor. It's a job you learn in the field and that's all I'll say on the subject. We can agree to disagree.
    Agreed! Well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Takethedoor174 View Post
    On a lighter note. I went for my annual medical this week and the chief of operations, chief Sweeney spoke to us for about an hour. As far as proby's go he said that he expects the filing date for the new test to be nov or dec with the test being administered sometime next spring. Not set in stone just what we heard from a 4 star chief.
    That sounds more realistic. Wouldn't surprise me if it even went beyond those dates.
    Last edited by GIMMEFIRE600; 06-07-2011 at 10:23 PM.

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    Just a reminder, today the city council began budget negotiations with the mayor. It is imperative that we all send letters to the council denouncing closings on a daily basis until the matter has been resolved. This will play a huge roll in the future of 6019. If the closures fall through there will be immense pressure to hire and our story will be making headlines once again. Hopefully bringing about some sort of resolution. Send those letters and make some phone calls.

  18. #11243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takethedoor174 View Post
    On a lighter note. I went for my annual medical this week and the chief of operations, chief Sweeney spoke to us for about an hour. As far as proby's go he said that he expects the filing date for the new test to be nov or dec with the test being administered sometime next spring. Not set in stone just what we heard from a 4 star chief.
    If it's true, that sucks. I was counting down the days till June. I'm hoping he's wrong.
    Last edited by BrooklynBorn; 06-07-2011 at 11:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBorn View Post
    If it's true, that sucks. I was counting down the days till June. I'm hoping he's wrong.
    If its true thats great. I'm hoping he's right!

    There's no need for a new test.

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    The new court document that came out today still indicated December for testing. But, it could very well be delayed until June or longer.

    Also, after reading the latest court document, it seems that 6019 is going to be stuck in court for quite some time. I'd love to see the city and 6019 come out on top, in say a year, but I just don't see that happening that quickly. Although it's not entirely the same, New Haven's case took five years.

    Overall, I don't think the debate was just about whether City residents should get preference over those who are not. For me, it's been about how to determine who is a city resident. Using the HS diploma as the gold standard is questionable at best. No one here was able to chose where they were born, where they grew up or where they went to high school. Their parents made that decision. Some people who grew up in the City have indicated their parents sent them to private school outside of the City. What about a person who's father was on the job, but chose to move his family out to Long Island or Upstate, went to school there, then moved back here when he or she could make that decision? What about someone like me who grew up in the Adirondack region, where there are few or no paid fire departments? Should those people be punished for that? Should I? That's the issue.

    Now, a lot of places do give preference to their residents. Albany, Rochester, Syracuse, Boston, Worcester are examples (Buffalo, you can't even take the exam, unless you're a resident). That in itself, is reasonable. However, there are other ways, outside of a high school diploma. The resolution that the council passed listed several other forms of proof, that can be used to determine the validity of a person's residency. Those documents are much more difficulty to fake, especially for a 12 month period preceding the exam. The one factor that should also be added: a visit to the claimed residence. Other departments do this. Investigators visit you and even may talk to neighbors. It's pretty effective. These factors are used effectively in other Cities. It would work just as well here to eliminate cheating.
    Last edited by Minerva; 01-11-2013 at 07:26 PM.

  21. #11246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takethedoor174 View Post
    Regardless of the reason the residency credit was originally implemented I think NYC residents DO deserve the job more! We live here it's our home and we want to protect it. Relax It's human nature and it's my opinion. It's only natural for people to feel that way. I'm sure people in towns outside the city would feel the same if they had thousands of guys were trying to take away jobs in their little town. Why should someone from out of town come and take jobs away from those that live here? And don't give me the "We want the most qualified candidates no matter where they are from crap." Spoken like a a true out of towner. I have nothing against guys from out of town getting on the job I just think those who live here should have preference and the residency credit, though highly flawed helps. There are more than enough people that would be great firefighters here in the city. Aside from the physical, which you have to pass anyway to be considered, the written is BS and doesn't prove who would be a good firefighter or not. Getting one or 2 questions right doesn't mean s*** on the fire floor. It's a job you learn in the field and that's all I'll say on the subject. We can agree to disagree.
    Your logic is flawed and I pray the residents of New York City want the most intelligent people on the job. No, not every test is the greatest measurement of an applicant's ability to perform well in a specific job but most do measure intelligence and the underlying ability to learn. So you're saying,you'd give a job to someone while considerding georgraphical preference over intelligence?

    The residency credit gives 5 points to residents. So hypothetically, even if you, a non-resident, score a 95 and I, a resident, score a 93, I get the higher list number even though you're smarter.

    In this country, a degree from an acredited university is the highest form of recognized intelligence. Most students attend university in their state as in-state residents. http://www.insidecollege.com/reno/Pe...es/360/list.do Massachessets' Harvard was ranked the top university in the country. http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandre...l-universities New York doesnt produce a ranking university above top twenty. So, barring any conspiracy theories about the rankings, Harvard is better than the universities in New York. Now remembering that the universities rarely possess out-of-state residents and a university level degree is the greatest measurement of intelligence, you are advocating not hiring the most intelligent people for the job by saying there should be a New York residency credit. Living somewhere makes you no more apt for the job than not-living somewhere so why give preference to either one.

    Taking jobs from locals is nothing new. It's done in my town and I wont be the homeless person to break the cycle; to let everyone have a job but me. There are no jobs in my town so I will take my diploma and come compete with you for yours. Encouraging otherwise is speaking like someone with a job.

    Besides, many like me are planning to move to the city to take advantage of the credit anyway. So, if I move to town a day before the test, how does that make me any more apt for the job than a 28-year resident?

  22. #11247
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    This recidency stuff shouldn't even be a debate. The city WILL award residency points somehow and non-residents should be happy you even stand a chance of getting hired. Many non-residents with no bonus points still have been hired.

    Any non-resident of Boston thats taken the Boston FD exam knows what I'm talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Takethedoor174 View Post
    Regardless of the reason the residency credit was originally implemented I think NYC residents DO deserve the job more! We live here it's our home and we want to protect it. Relax It's human nature and it's my opinion. It's only natural for people to feel that way. I'm sure people in towns outside the city would feel the same if they had thousands of guys were trying to take away jobs in their little town. Why should someone from out of town come and take jobs away from those that live here? And don't give me the "We want the most qualified candidates no matter where they are from crap." Spoken like a a true out of towner. I have nothing against guys from out of town getting on the job I just think those who live here should have preference and the residency credit, though highly flawed helps. There are more than enough people that would be great firefighters here in the city. Aside from the physical, which you have to pass anyway to be considered, the written is BS and doesn't prove who would be a good firefighter or not. Getting one or 2 questions right doesn't mean s*** on the fire floor. It's a job you learn in the field and that's all I'll say on the subject. We can agree to disagree.
    LOL. ok. youre right. what do I know.
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 06-08-2011 at 09:28 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    This recidency stuff shouldn't even be a debate. The city WILL award residency points somehow and non-residents should be happy you even stand a chance of getting hired. Many non-residents with no bonus points still have been hired.

    Any non-resident of Boston thats taken the Boston FD exam knows what I'm talking about.
    Good thinking. You white people hoping to get on should just be happy you even have a chance after the hiring of all the minorities too, right?
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Takethedoor174 View Post
    On a lighter note. I went for my annual medical this week and the chief of operations, chief Sweeney spoke to us for about an hour. As far as proby's go he said that he expects the filing date for the new test to be nov or dec with the test being administered sometime next spring. Not set in stone just what we heard from a 4 star chief.
    There was also a rumor floating around that chiefs from fire told the chiefs at the EMS acad. to prepare two large classes this summer because they are gonna be taking a large number of EMS guys come September.....all these rumors make my head spin. I really had high hopes for this year and they are slowly fading. I wanted this to be my last summer sweating my balls off in the projects.

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