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Thread: Fdny List 6019

  1. #11601
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    I'm not familiar with their process but that's where I'd put my money

  2. #11602
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronxguy718 View Post
    you guys think it will take over a year for them to hire after the test is given??
    January 07 was 6019 and the 1st class was hired July/August of 08

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDNYPD View Post
    I'm not familiar with their process but that's where I'd put my money
    I think baring any thing from this judge. They will hire around july of nextyear. They can start background investigations by end of febuary with medicals, psycs, and physicals to follow shouldtake 6 months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jameson_12 View Post
    January 07 was 6019 and the 1st class was hired July/August of 08
    True but I have to think this process will go way faster than in 07. It took FOREVER for them to finalize that answer key because of all those insane subjective questions about cleaning chili. Also they didnt need to hire nearly as bad as they do now. I think they were still way over headcount back then.

    Im also a bit of an optimist here, but if this thing is title 7 compliant like they say it will be then theres no reason for it to be held up at all. Not even the judge can stop it at that point even if he doesnt like the ratios.

    Also digital vs old paper process start to finish cant hurt the speed either right?

  5. #11605
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    Quote Originally Posted by matty21 View Post
    I think baring any thing from this judge. They will hire around july of nextyear. They can start background investigations by end of febuary with medicals, psycs, and physicals to follow shouldtake 6 months.
    From a jackass who has been on the last 2 FDNY lists, there is no way a class will be hired within 6-8 months of the exam. I'd say with the heavy volume of applicants plus the legal mumbo jumbo from Garadoofus, 2nd quarter of 2013 is the best bet.

  6. #11606
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    the news was reporting yesterday that they are only 300 down right now?
    Last edited by BrooklynBorn; 07-19-2011 at 05:44 PM.

  7. #11607
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    I dunno where the papers got that info but the department will be down almost 900 firefighters by the end of next month. Not to mention the union will be having hearings with a certain commision to attempt to get the fifth man back which would add around 300 ff's to that number. They need to hire in the worst way.

  8. #11608
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    The Fire Department yesterday invited New Yorkers to take what will surely be the most analyzed, revised and scrutinized firefighters' hiring exam in the city's history.

    The FDNY test that measures the exact qualities necessary to be a topflight member of the Bravest. The FDNY test that gives all comers, including black applicants, a fair shot.

    It had better do both.

    Call it the Garaufis Test after Brooklyn Federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis, who ruled that the last three FDNY tests violated anti-discrimination law because (a) as a group blacks did not score as well as whites, and (b) in the judge's view the tests did not ask questions relevant to determining suitability for the job.

    Now, though, a special master appointed by Garaufis, former Manhattan U.S. Attorney Mary Jo White, is supervising test development with experts hired by the city, the Justice Department and the black firefighters organization, the Vulcans. For good measure, White has her own expert.

    According to the latest report she filed with the court, the experts have expertly studied the skills, tasks and abilities required of rookie firefighters and are developing test questions designed to ferret out who makes the grade.

    Before job applicants take the exam, it will be administered to working firefighters in order to determine whether scores match job performance. In theory, high scores should match high workplace reviews.

    Additionally, the test will be administered for the first time via computer screen and will for the first time include video and audio questions, a step apparently designed to equalize between applicants who read well enough to do the job and applicants who have reading skills far beyond those that are necessary

    On paper, this all makes sense - with the possible exception of that bit about reading ability. Judgment is reserved on whether the exam is being watered down to the department's detriment.

    Fire Commissioner Sal Cassano said the department will spend more than $1 million advertising the test, to be given in January. The goal is to increase minority participation.

    But test-takers of every background will be ill-served if Garaufis determines that, despite all the effort, this new exam is as discriminatory as he felt past ones were.

    White must get all the parties, including the Vulcans, to agree that the test is well-developed and to accept without challenge that the results will be valid regardless of how well the members of any particular group score. And Garaufis will need to accept those facts as well.
    Last edited by BrooklynBorn; 07-19-2011 at 06:38 PM.

  9. #11609
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    Quote Originally Posted by River6019 View Post
    True but I have to think this process will go way faster than in 07. It took FOREVER for them to finalize that answer key because of all those insane subjective questions about cleaning chili. Also they didnt need to hire nearly as bad as they do now. I think they were still way over headcount back then.

    Im also a bit of an optimist here, but if this thing is title 7 compliant like they say it will be then theres no reason for it to be held up at all. Not even the judge can stop it at that point even if he doesnt like the ratios.

    Also digital vs old paper process start to finish cant hurt the speed either right?
    I without a doubt agree this time around things will move faster, I was just throwing out the time frame from the last test... Don't forget how many chances they gave to pass every part too, all with a minimum of 30 days in between tries. I'm going to guess it'll be around September-October though.

  10. #11610
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    when is the judge expected to "approve" this test?
    Last edited by BrooklynBorn; 07-19-2011 at 06:37 PM.

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    The 2002 test was also found discriminating and the last class from that test was January 2008 right before the first class of 6019? I keep on reading new articles stating that the hire freeze was 2007 sounds better then saying the truth which was 2010 after the judge ordered the freeze which he mentioned would be up lifted after a new test was created??

  12. #11612
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    "As a rookie firefighter, you are responsible for cleaning the kitchen. At the beginning of your shift, you find the kitchen area is a mess. And there is a bowl of chili spilled on the floor from the firefighters from the previous shift. The reason the kitchen was left in such a mess is due to the previous crew having gone out on a call to a fire during their dinner, and they are still actively fighting the fire.

    "Do you:

    "1) Clean the mess up.

    "2) Clean the mess up, but complain to anyone who will listen.

    "3) Refuse to clean the mess up.

    "4) Clean everything except the spilled chili.

    "5) Wait for everyone from the previous shift to return, yell at them that they should have cleaned up the mess."


    Would like to take a few moments to be thankful that I am white. If I were any other race or color I don't know how I would ever be able to answer that question.

    Why don't they just give us crayons and a coloring book and who ever stays in the lines the most gets the job..... The judge can personally pick the pictures we have to color in so there's no discrimination.

  13. #11613
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    Does the judge have to approve the test before its given and if he does have to approve it before we take it is he able to throw the exam out if they dont get the numbers they want?? I would think they would give the test, if they get the numbers they want. APPROVED...if not than its thrown out.

  14. #11614
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBorn View Post
    questions include video and audio questions, a step apparently designed to equalize between applicants who read well enough to do the job and applicants who have reading skills far beyond those that are necessary

    On paper, this all makes sense - with the possible exception of that bit about reading ability. Judgment is reserved on whether the exam is being watered down to the department's detriment.[/B]

    I wonder if the "The Derek Zoolander School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too" had a part of making this test
    List # 13**

  15. #11615
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnchorC View Post
    I wonder if the "The Derek Zoolander School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too" had a part of making this test
    best post in months!

  16. #11616
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    Quote Originally Posted by vekdoggs75 View Post
    From a jackass who has been on the last 2 FDNY lists, there is no way a class will be hired within 6-8 months of the exam. I'd say with the heavy volume of applicants plus the legal mumbo jumbo from Garadoofus, 2nd quarter of 2013 is the best bet.
    In the past the city gave the test about two years before they planned to hire. The last test was Jan 07 no one did anything untill jan or feb 08 people who started thprocess were hired that summer. Itis just a matter of how fast they can start putting people through any I know from whenthe PD was in need of people they were putting ppl through before the exam was certified.

  17. #11617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon2beFDNY View Post
    "As a rookie firefighter, you are responsible for cleaning the kitchen. At the beginning of your shift, you find the kitchen area is a mess. And there is a bowl of chili spilled on the floor from the firefighters from the previous shift. The reason the kitchen was left in such a mess is due to the previous crew having gone out on a call to a fire during their dinner, and they are still actively fighting the fire.

    "Do you:

    "1) Clean the mess up.

    "2) Clean the mess up, but complain to anyone who will listen.

    "3) Refuse to clean the mess up.

    "4) Clean everything except the spilled chili.

    "5) Wait for everyone from the previous shift to return, yell at them that they should have cleaned up the mess."


    Would like to take a few moments to be thankful that I am white. If I were any other race or color I don't know how I would ever be able to answer that question.

    Why don't they just give us crayons and a coloring book and who ever stays in the lines the most gets the job..... The judge can personally pick the pictures we have to color in so there's no discrimination.
    I think the answer to this one is the fifth option

  18. #11618
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    Number 2 is the Funniest.

  19. #11619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon2beFDNY View Post
    "As a rookie firefighter, you are responsible for cleaning the kitchen. At the beginning of your shift, you find the kitchen area is a mess. And there is a bowl of chili spilled on the floor from the firefighters from the previous shift. The reason the kitchen was left in such a mess is due to the previous crew having gone out on a call to a fire during their dinner, and they are still actively fighting the fire.

    "Do you:

    "1) Clean the mess up.

    "2) Clean the mess up, but complain to anyone who will listen.

    "3) Refuse to clean the mess up.

    "4) Clean everything except the spilled chili.

    "5) Wait for everyone from the previous shift to return, yell at them that they should have cleaned up the mess."


    Would like to take a few moments to be thankful that I am white. If I were any other race or color I don't know how I would ever be able to answer that question.

    Why don't they just give us crayons and a coloring book and who ever stays in the lines the most gets the job..... The judge can personally pick the pictures we have to color in so there's no discrimination.
    Do people forget that 80% of the questions on this exam had multiple correct answers. You could have closed your eyes, filled in the bubbles, and scored well enough on this exam. Imagine how much worse the passing rate for minorities would have been if, like all other multiple choice exams, there was only one possible correct answer. Dig up your answer key from 6019, if you held onto it, and you can have yourself a good laugh.

    That being said, every time I see the video of S.C. preaching to the choir about how great of a job this is, with those two shakedown artists behind him, Coombs with his foolish bow tie and P.W. with the ****-eating grin on his face, it makes me ****ing sick to see them making a mockery of the FDNY. I love how the ads on the side of the rigs say FDNY is an equal opportunity employer, yet on those very same ads all of the faces are black. They should practice what they preach, EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, there's an idea. When do you think S.C. will show up at your church, temple, synangogue , etc, urging more Italians, Irish, Asians, Jews, etc to take the exam for the greatest job on earth? I'll let you in on a little secret - don't hold your breath.
    Last edited by BK204NYC; 07-20-2011 at 02:13 AM.

  20. #11620
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    I find Coombs bowtie especially irritating. I seriously think he sees this a spring board for some type of al sharpton type career, either that or he just is a racist looking to be remembered.
    Last edited by BrooklynBorn; 07-20-2011 at 02:56 AM.

  21. #11621
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    I found that very difficult to watch.
    They talk like we're still in the segregated South and blame lack of recruitment and the academics of the test.
    I actually couldn't watch the whole thing. Too much victim talk.
    18 of 27 minutes, and I didn't see any bowtie.

    They talk like "the man" is still holding them down. Yet the host of the show is a doctorate, his guest made it to where he is without much help and hello??? It's the 21st century and the POTUS is black. Where is their logic and common sense? Disparate Impact my arse.
    Last edited by ffbam24; 07-20-2011 at 03:20 AM.

  22. #11622
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    I just posted that other video because it starred coombs, I don't know how recent it is. I deleted it before you commented because I didn't want to confuse people and gave them think it was the video with the bowtie. But I found it by googling his name.
    A much more annoying video to watch is the one from the Vulcan lawyers, it's filled with lies and misrepresentation. They make filing sound like an application with a resume and don't mention a test.

  23. #11623
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon2beFDNY View Post
    "As a rookie firefighter, you are responsible for cleaning the kitchen. At the beginning of your shift, you find the kitchen area is a mess. And there is a bowl of chili spilled on the floor from the firefighters from the previous shift. The reason the kitchen was left in such a mess is due to the previous crew having gone out on a call to a fire during their dinner, and they are still actively fighting the fire.

    "Do you:

    "1) Clean the mess up.

    "2) Clean the mess up, but complain to anyone who will listen.

    "3) Refuse to clean the mess up.

    "4) Clean everything except the spilled chili.

    "5) Wait for everyone from the previous shift to return, yell at them that they should have cleaned up the mess."


    Would like to take a few moments to be thankful that I am white. If I were any other race or color I don't know how I would ever be able to answer that question.

    Why don't they just give us crayons and a coloring book and who ever stays in the lines the most gets the job..... The judge can personally pick the pictures we have to color in so there's no discrimination.

    I'd greatly appreciate a "nap time" esp in the morning session. That way my brain is nice and rested for the multiple choice multiple answer questions.

  24. #11624
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    Default Somebody posted this on the rant.

    Woman sues city over firefighter test
    A firefighter candidate says physical test discriminates against women
    Lisa Klein

    WGN News

    3:44 PM CDT, July 19, 2011

    CHICAGO

    Advertisement

    A woman has filed a law suit against the city of Chicago for sex discrimination in the hiring process used by the Chicago Fire Dept.

    According to a statement from her attorneys, Samantha Vasich, 27, said she worked with her personal trainer on the requirements for the test. The physical test given to potential firefighters by the CFD includes arm lifts, arm endurance and leg lifts.

    Vasich says was able to do everything when she took it. However, she received a letter from the city telling her she failed.

    "I thought it must be a mistake," Vasich said in the statement.

    The statement said the letter didn't include anything about the actual test results and Vasich was unable to get any further information from the city. The city would also not give her contact information for the private firm that administered the tests.

    The lawsuit alleges that the test used by the CFD is discriminatory towards women and is not applicable to the actual job.
    Many other major cities, including New York, Los Angeles and Dallas, use the Candidate Physical Abilities Test. This test consists of eight events that simulate actual firefighting. According to the statement, more women pass this test than the one the CFD uses.

    The Chicago Tribune reported in June that a little over 2% of Chicago's firefighters are women. Nationally, women make up 3.6% of the force.

    Chicago's first women firefighters were hired only 25 years ago. Their physical test was developed with a written test in 1996. The written test was shown to be discriminatory in regards to race and has since been thrown out.
    "I just want a fair shot," said Vasich in the statement. "All the women who want to protect our communities as firefighters deserve that chance. That's the outcome I want to see from this suit."

    The Chicago Fire Dept. has not commented on the suit.

    Copyright 2011, WGN-TV


    Seems like if the city wants to avoid more lawsuits it would be in their best interest to keep the CPAT, although thats not what the Vulcans want. The Vulcans have said in the past that the physical should be worth more points than the written.
    I wonder whats the hold up on declaring what the physical will be and how much it will be worth. Giving a physical to all that passed the written and then grading it will be much more time consuming than just giving it to the guys that are in the top 4000 on the written. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

    Hopefully those of us on 6019 won't have to go through all this mess again and the city's appeal will be successful.
    Last edited by GIMMEFIRE600; 07-20-2011 at 01:37 PM.

  25. #11625
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    Since the vulcans and womens ideas of what the test should be differ, I would love to see them argue it out.

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