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    We spoke months ago about possibly a rally with some of the council members that support us getting involved. The media has all but forgotten about us and when they do speak about the FDNY they make them sound more like the clan. Those of us on 6019, especially in that class of 312 know the truth. We are the true victims here, THE ONLY VICTIMS!!! I think hundreds of us standing up for what we believe in all in one place would be pretty powerful and force the media to listen to us.

    What do you guys think?

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    I think you should get as many of you together as you can and hold a silent rally in the park across the street from the Brooklyn Federal Courthouse while this hearing is still going on. And that means ASAP!
    Give this guy a good look at who his perceived "disparate impact" has impacted.

    Silent or give speeches. But this should speak volumes.

    I went to almost two days of these hearings. Each person who went up on that stand and made claims of racism in some form or another, was each asked if they liked their jobs. With each one that I heard, there was a resounding, "Yes."

    How in the hell can you sit up there and claim racism is running rampant in this department and then conclude your own testimony with the statement that you love your job???

    Get a rally organized NOW and I'll be there.

    *Fairhiring - Thank you!

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    God bless the members lost on Black Sunday, January 23, 2005:
    Lt Curtis Meyran
    FF John Bellew
    FF Richard Sclafani

    Never forget.

    But apparently you were all forgotten by Paul Washington. If I hadn't heard it with my own ears; up on the stand, under oath, he claimed he was not familiar with the term.

    Unbelievable.

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    Thay have no shame.

    It's a civil service test, for cryin' out loud, not quantum physics. They keep crying that it's too hard, that it's discriminatory, when all they are doing is announcing their stupidity. Maybe if you studied for the test and passed it like everyone else, people wouldn't look at you like ignorant creatures that are dumber than a box of rocks. But if those tests are too hard for you to pass? Congratulations, you have reached the end of your evolutionary journey. You will soon be replaced by the Oriental, Hispanic, and other minorities that realize studying and work are the way to get ahead in this world. See ya!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffbam24 View Post
    I think you should get as many of you together as you can and hold a silent rally in the park across the street from the Brooklyn Federal Courthouse while this hearing is still going on. And that means ASAP!
    Give this guy a good look at who his perceived "disparate impact" has impacted.

    Silent or give speeches. But this should speak volumes.

    I went to almost two days of these hearings. Each person who went up on that stand and made claims of racism in some form or another, was each asked if they liked their jobs. With each one that I heard, there was a resounding, "Yes."

    How in the hell can you sit up there and claim racism is running rampant in this department and then conclude your own testimony with the statement that you love your job???

    Get a rally organized NOW and I'll be there.

    *Fairhiring - Thank you!
    obviously they love their job if they faced racism and stuck with the job. and also they are already on the job so what do they stand to gain from lying? Anyone here who thinks racism no longer exists is either deaf and blind or a liar. Obviously, strong people persevere through it.

    on another note i went in person to apply for the exam to see if DCAS could answer some questions that FDNY couldnt. Their reply was because this test is a legal issue we cant answer any questions and handed me the notice of exams. I watched other people ask questions and they told them the same thing. So basically applying in person has no advantage and some people may be applying who arent even eligible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6019eligible View Post
    obviously they love their job if they faced racism and stuck with the job. and also they are already on the job so what do they stand to gain from lying? Anyone here who thinks racism no longer exists is either deaf and blind or a liar. Obviously, strong people persevere through it.
    They could sue the city for money. Money is reason enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6019eligible View Post
    obviously they love their job if they faced racism and stuck with the job. and also they are already on the job so what do they stand to gain from lying? Anyone here who thinks racism no longer exists is either deaf and blind or a liar. Obviously, strong people persevere through it.

    on another note i went in person to apply for the exam to see if DCAS could answer some questions that FDNY couldnt. Their reply was because this test is a legal issue we cant answer any questions and handed me the notice of exams. I watched other people ask questions and they told them the same thing. So basically applying in person has no advantage and some people may be applying who arent even eligible.
    Ignorance is bliss..
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    [QUOTE=6019eligible;1290102]obviously they love their job if they faced racism and stuck with the job. and also they are already on the job so what do they stand to gain from lying? Anyone here who thinks racism no longer exists is either deaf and blind or a liar. Obviously, strong people persevere through it.


    Nobody made the statement that racism does not exist.

    I will make the statement that The claims of racism by FF Grainger, the Vulcans and Sherita Sears are fugazzi.

    take it from a black/hispanic.
    Last edited by remoray229; 08-19-2011 at 06:34 PM. Reason: added last line

  9. #11909
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    [QUOTE=remoray229;1290124]
    Quote Originally Posted by 6019eligible View Post
    obviously they love their job if they faced racism and stuck with the job. and also they are already on the job so what do they stand to gain from lying? Anyone here who thinks racism no longer exists is either deaf and blind or a liar. Obviously, strong people persevere through it.


    Nobody made the statement that racism does not exist.

    I will make the statement that The claims of racism by FF Grainger, the Vulcans and Sherita Sears are fugazzi.

    take it from a black/hispanic.
    As a minority doesn't it make you wonder why the bloomberg administration who so vehemently defends themselves on most issues, gave ff grainger a settlement on the hush hush.

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    Default just something to think about

    Someone pointed this out to me today, which i hadnt given it much thought prior: FDNY EMS has more minorities than FDNY Fire because you are not required to be a US citizen to be in EMS and Fire you are. This was coming from a Legal immigrant who is interested in doing fire but he is currently 26 years old and needs one more year on his green card til he is eligible to file for citizenship. By the time he is a citizen to take an exam he'll have to wait at least three more years for the next test. At that point he'll be too old to take it.

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    [QUOTE=GIMMEFIRE600;1290157]
    Quote Originally Posted by remoray229 View Post

    As a minority doesn't it make you wonder why the bloomberg administration who so vehemently defends themselves on most issues, gave ff grainger a settlement on the hush hush.
    Ummm no.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post

    Ummm no.
    If you guys insist on being naive and attempting to claim that racism doesn't exist, just google Sherita Sears. On the very first page you will find a website with tons of name calling and derogatory words used toward FF Sears himself and his widow. Being that Black Sunday is in the news again, I googled Lt. Meyran's and FF. Bellew's widows and interestingly enough never found any name calling or bigotry or racism.

    In case you're wondering, they both blamed and sued the city for their husbands untimely deaths, I haven't heard any white guys (or black for that matter) call their lawsuits bullsh*t. Where's the outrage?

    There shouldn't be any outrage on either side. All of these women are left to raise their kids alone, with no father, yet only one has had to take abuse for her actions.
    Last edited by GIMMEFIRE600; 08-20-2011 at 07:38 AM.

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    You are a real piece of work. First of all, drop the strawman. If you want to have an intelligent conversation, that is. Judging by your posts, im not really sure if its possible, but ill give you the benefit of the doubt for now.


    As for you bringing up lt meyran and ff sears and bellew, can i have a link to the comments made by mrs bellew or mrs meyran claiming we let them die because of their race? Heres a hint. You wont find any. While mrs sears certainly faced some unwarranted treatment, she brought most of it on herself.


    As for the lawsuit being settled, do some research. 90% of lawsuits against nyc are filed out of court, and this process neither confirms nor denies the validity of any said lawsuit. It is a time honored practice that sometimes saves the city time and money (and can help later strengthen other cases, say like maybe a vulcan society lawsuit against the city that was to be filed at the conclusion of the noose hanging incident trial). See how that works?

    You seem to forget some of us here are already on this job, know the stories better than you, have done our research, and only want what most of you want, that the best candidates get the job. If you think that us doubting a specific claim = not believing racism still exists, if you believe that those of us on the job dont know the back stories, have dealt with the eeo bullsh*t, have seen false claims of racism.....then you, my naive little buddy, certainly arent qualified to come onto this job.
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 08-20-2011 at 08:10 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    You are a real piece of work. First of all, drop the strawman. If you want to have an intelligent conversation, that is. Judging by your posts, im not really sure if its possible, but ill give you the benefit of the doubt for now.


    As for you bringing up lt meyran and ff sears and bellew, can i have a link to the comments made by mrs bellew or mrs meyran claiming we let them die because of their race? Heres a hint. You wont find any. While mrs sears certainly faced some unwarranted treatment, she brought most of it on herself.


    As for the lawsuit being settled, do some research. 90% of lawsuits against nyc are filed out of court, and this process neither confirms nor denies the validity of any said lawsuit. It is a time honored practice that sometimes saves the city time and money (and can help later strengthen other cases, say like maybe a vulcan society lawsuit against the city that was to be filed at the conclusion of the noose hanging incident trial). See how that works?

    You seem to forget sone of us here are already on this job, know the storiea better than you, have done our research, and only want what most of you want, that the best candidates get the job. If you think that us doubting a specific claim = not believing racism still exists, if you believe that those of us on the job dont know the back stories, have dealt with the eeo bullsh*t, have seen false claims of racism.....then you, my naive little buddy, certainly arent qualified to come onto this job.
    Its mighty ironic how you reference an intelligent conversation yet your post is full of hyperbole and no facts. How about you show me a quote where Sherita Sears blames the department for her husbands death based on race. You won't find it because there are none. It was her lawyer(who will say anything to win because thats his job) and John Coombs who made such claims.

    How about the FACT that there is testimony from probies in his class with him that they were told by instructors to stay away from him after he had collapsed and to wait for a bus. FACT is many of these probies were former emt's with field experience.

    Please explain to me how the city settling with grainger strengthened their Vulcan case. Nonsense. They did an investigation and didn't want any further details to be exposed knowing that the DOJ (not vulcan) lawsuit was on their heels.

    Enough with the name calling and subliminal phrases aimed at me in an attempt to undermine me. Fight me with FACTS not verbal diarrhea that makes no sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    Its mighty ironic how you reference an intelligent conversation yet your post is full of hyperbole and no facts. How about you show me a quote where Sherita Sears blames the department for her husbands death based on race. You won't find it because there are none. It was her lawyer(who will say anything to win because thats his job) and John Coombs who made such claims.

    How about the FACT that there is testimony from probies in his class with him that they were told by instructors to stay away from him after he had collapsed and to wait for a bus. FACT is many of these probies were former emt's with field experience.

    Please explain to me how the city settling with grainger strengthened their Vulcan case. Nonsense. They did an investigation and didn't want any further details to be exposed knowing that the DOJ (not vulcan) lawsuit was on their heels.

    Enough with the name calling and subliminal phrases aimed at me in an attempt to undermine me. Fight me with FACTS not verbal diarrhea that makes no sense.
    Lol. Good luck getting on the job.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    Lol. Good luck getting on the job.
    Nothing? No facts?

    Oh, and yes you are a better person and more intelligent than I am because you're on the job already. Although I have a letter thats 3 years old offering me employment you're more a man than I'll ever be.

    For some of you out there, the last paragraph was saturated in sarcasm before I posted it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    Nothing? No facts?

    Oh, and yes you are a better person and more intelligent than I am because you're on the job already. Although I have a letter thats 3 years old offering me employment you're more a man than I'll ever be.

    For some of you out there, the last paragraph was saturated in sarcasm before I posted it.
    Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. I expected nothing else.

    I only talk facts with people able to handle to conversation. Introducing strawmen proves you unworthy, sorry.

    For some of you out there, yes, im saying he isnt smart.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. I expected nothing else.

    I only talk facts with people able to handle to conversation. Introducing strawmen proves you unworthy, sorry.

    For some of you out there, yes, im saying he isnt smart.
    No, you can't talk facts and keep attempting to deflect my questions because you have none.

    How smart is it of you to try and even attempt to claim that it behooved the city to settle graingers claims out of court? Don't you think it would have been in the city's best interest to discount his claims and prove he planted the noose as all of you guys allege. Don't you think that proving the vulcan society is made up of liars would have strengthened their DOJ lawsuit? FACT is they couldn't and neither can you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    No, you can't talk facts and keep attempting to deflect my questions because you have none.

    How smart is it of you to try and even attempt to claim that it behooved the city to settle graingers claims out of court? Don't you think it would have been in the city's best interest to discount his claims and prove he planted the noose as all of you guys allege. Don't you think that proving the vulcan society is made up of liars would have strengthened their DOJ lawsuit? FACT is they couldn't and neither can you.
    Lol. Youre fun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    Lol. Youre fun.
    Wow. Way to refute the FACTS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    Wow. Way to refute the FACTS.

    Lol. Do you know what a strawman is?
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    Lol. Do you know what a strawman is?
    Oh please, do I strike you as an illiterate? I'll entertain your questions when you discredit just one, just one of my FACTUAL statements.

    BTW, the correct usage of the term is as two words: straw man, not one.
    Last edited by GIMMEFIRE600; 08-20-2011 at 09:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    Oh please, do I strike you as an illiterate? I'll entertain your questions when you discredit just one, just one of my FACTUAL statements.

    BTW, the correct usage of the term is as two words: straw man, not one.
    I didnt ask you if you could read what i wrote, i asked if you knew what it meant.

    I will gladly have a legitimate discussion with you, discussing your supposed facts, when you drop the act, stop accusing us of falsely believing we think there is no more racism, and stop playing gotcha games. Until then, i will continue to treat your posts as morning amusement, not worthy of intelligent discussion. I flat out refuse to argue facts with someone who introduces straw men and false dichotomies during an exchange, sorry.
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 08-20-2011 at 09:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    How about the FACT that there is testimony from probies in his class with him that they were told by instructors to stay away from him after he had collapsed and to wait for a bus.

    You got any kind of a link for this, not coming from a laywer's mouth?

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    Merit Matters -- Press Release


    August 18, 2011

    While testifying under oath on August 16, 2011 retired FDNY Firefighter Lanaird Granger repeated a claim about finding a noose on his gear that he had originally made in 2005. I had a letter published in the Chief-Leader newspaper on April 7, 2006 which pointed out a number of contradictory statements made by FF Granger which cast doubt on the truthfulness of that claim. To date, no person or entity has responded to my refutation of his claim which lends credibility that the refutation is truthful.

    In his recent testimony- again, given under oath- Granger appeared to make another contradictory claim; a claim that is easily proven false beyond the shadow of a doubt and one that apparently attempts to take advantage of the deaths of three FDNY members and the serious injury of four others. Consider this timeline:

    January 19, 2005- Granger claims to have found the noose.

    January 20, 2005 (the next day) - Granger testified he showed the noose to Vulcan President Captain Paul Washington and Lieutenant Michael Marshall. Granger stated they made the decision to delay filing a formal complaint because of the Line of Duty Deaths, referring to the Black Sunday tragedy.

    January 23, 2005- the Black Sunday tragedy occurred, three days after Granger claimed it as the reason for the delay in filing a formal complaint.

    February 10, 2005- Granger files a formal complaint. Note: there were no other FDNY Line of Duty deaths between January 19, 2005 and February 10, 2005.

    February 18, 2005- a story appearing in the Chief-Leader reported that Granger “waited for three weeks to report it (discovery of the noose) because he couldn’t decide what to do”.


    August 15, 2011- On the day before Granger’s testimony and casting further doubt on Granger’s claim as to the reason for the delay, Captain Paul Washington testified under oath that he could not recall what happened on Black Sunday. When pressed, and given some of the details of that day, he stated that he did remember some of the Bronx tragedy details but nothing about the death later that same day in Brooklyn. If Granger’s explanation for the delay is truthful it is very unlikely that Captain Washington would not be able to remember the facts of that tragic day.

    Much is made of the fact that Granger’s noose claim has been substantiated but this determination is highly suspect. It was made by the FDNY EEO Unit, led at the time by Paulette Lundy, a civilian who once adamantly argued while advocating for more female firefighters that physical strength is not necessary for firefighting. In her ruling on this case she also noted that no one was identified as being directly involved in placing the noose but the motive was to retaliate against Granger for his association with the Vulcan Society. I questioned (in my April 7, 2006 letter) how she could discover a motive for an action when no one was found to have committed the action and I think for this reason, and the demonstrably false claim made by Granger recently, the investigation into this incident must be re-opened.

    I also demand that an investigation be made into Granger’s possible perjury. Utilizing a potent, racially explosive symbol of terrorism in a false, misleading manner, exploiting the deaths of fellow firefighters for personal gain and lying under oath cannot go unpunished and if this is what Granger has done it must be investigated and, as Judge Garaufis has recently remarked, “let the chips fall where they may”.

    Paul Mannix
    President
    Merit Matters
    516-848-9847 cell
    1324 Forest Avenue
    Suite 102
    Staten Island, NY 10302
    meritmatters@gmail.com
    HYPERLINK "http://meritmattersusa.blogspot.com"
    http://meritmattersusa.blogspot.com

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