Fdny List 6019

[BrooklynBorn]

How recent is that article?

[nnfra200302]

depends how bad you want the job... Sounds to me you probably shouldnt bother.

Believe me, I want the job just as much as everybody else does, whether it's back east or out west. Correct me if am wrong, but from reading other threads it sounds like if your not a resident and veteran you don't stand a chance. For example, a resident who is also a veteran scores a 90 on the written including residency and veteran points is put ahead of a non resident/veteran who scores a 95 on the written. By the way, am not sure how FDNY's list establishment works. Again correct me if am wrong.

Thank you,

Robert

[matty21]

i know its not possible in fdny cause the size of th dept but in LA investigators show up on your doorstep to ask you questions... thats how it should be

NYPD does is so its not that crazy that FD could do it

[GIMMEFIRE600]

How recent is that article?

Was posted on yournabe.com site earlier today

[BrooklynBorn]

Has any one used the barrons book to study from?

[GIMMEFIRE600]

Has any one used the barrons book to study from?

If the city doesn't even know what the next test is going to look like, I doubt barrons will. Nobody but the company they hired to formulate the exam and a handful of people involved in the process even remotely knows what the exam is going to look like. I've heard everything from it being given on computers to a third of it being mini essays. Nobody knows yet, sit tight and we'll find out. Actually, hopefully we won't and the 6019 ruling will be overturned.

Your topic is a perfect topic for a new thread though, this one has an exam number on it already.

[BrooklynBorn]

Just trying to be productive during the wait, I wasn't expecting old barrons tests to be spot on.
This thread has been about much more than 6019 for a long time now, from the age ext to the special master reports.
Thanks for the info on the new test, I'll take what ever little info I can get.

[Minerva]

First, if you're against the city changing over to the extra five points for being a high school graduate, you need to write the city council members and the members of the state assembly and senate.

http://www.nysenate.gov/senators
http://assembly.state.ny.us/mem/

I did not grow up or go to high school in this City. I grew up in the Adirondacks. However, at 21, I moved here. And yes, it was specifically for the points, because I understood how important they were for me to get hired and obtain my dream. I came very close and in fact, was supposed to be in the second class that never was. I have now lived, worked and enjoyed this city for six years. Now, myself and others in the same boat are going to be punished for something that they nor I had any control over. Children do not chose where they are born, where they grow up or where they go to high school. This proposal is nothing more than an attempt to slant the playing field more towards one or two particular groups. It just happens that it may benefit people other than those it's intended to benefit. To give someone a benefit for something they had very little, if any control over, is absurd. I've heard the claim that it's the only true way to fairly give the benefit. I've also heard that someone who grew up in the city knows it better than someone like myself. Both claims are hogwash, at best. First, I argue that after being here for six years, I know several parts of this city very well, possibly as well as someone who grew up here. Second, Many cities have strict residency requirements that prevent people from faking it. It may be having to live in a city a year before the exam. It may be having investigators visit your home or job. It may be requiring much more than one source of proof. I can go on and on. They are many ways to prevent cheating. Boston, Worcester, Albany, Rochester, Buffalo and Portland(ME) have strict standards that weed anyone trying to fake it. IT CAN be done.


As for the exam, I have not read in any of the court documents, anything about short answers. I've taken 8-10 exams for other departments and have not run into such thing. I have now, after some research, seen the video portion, which seems to be more prevalent out west.

http://corporate.psionline.com/asses...e=PublicSafety

The company that is aiding the city with this exam is PSI. Their exams are supposed to have held up to lawsuits similar to one we are affected by and in consent decree municipalities.

http://www.fire.lacounty.gov/helpwan...dy%20Guide.pdf

Above is a study guide, prepared by PSI, for the Los Angeles County Fire Department for an exam in 2007. Obviously, like anyone else, I cannot say what will be on the exam, but I personally would not be surprised to see something similar with the additional video portion.

http://www.fireteamtest.com/ (part of ergo metrics fire)

The above is a link to a type of video portion that other municipalities use. If you click on FAQ, you can get a good idea of what it may involve. There is a sample you can watch. You can also take a practice exam, that is 17 questions, but you have to pay a fee.

[Boxman]

Coming from someone who has taken the PSI test, be glad that FDNY might be going in that direction. It's a solid test, that in my opinion does level the playing field. It's held up well for LACoFD. On the other hand, I seriously hope they don't go with fireteam. I've taken that test as well and it's a hot mess. Totally subjective and from what I've heard it's up to the department to determine what answers are correct and what answers are not. Think of it this way, there are no wrong answers, only strong and weak answers. The writing is on the wall with a test like that.....some luck out and do great.....others fail miserably and it has the potential to pass over some really great candidates.

Anyway...those are my 2cents. Hope it helps.

[I3akdraf]

Has any one used the barrons book to study from?

My advice, study any and everything you can, one question can make the difference and that question may be in the Barron's book. A previous poster was correct in saying no one knows what the test is going to be like so prepare for EVERYTHING.

[I3akdraf]

Believe me, I want the job just as much as everybody else does, whether it's back east or out west. Correct me if am wrong, but from reading other threads it sounds like if your not a resident and veteran you don't stand a chance. For example, a resident who is also a veteran scores a 90 on the written including residency and veteran points is put ahead of a non resident/veteran who scores a 95 on the written. By the way, am not sure how FDNY's list establishment works. Again correct me if am wrong.

Thank you,

Robert

If you want the job then come and get it. No point in posting concerns over your odds. If you have to get a perfect score to stand a chance and you want the job then go and get a perfect score!!!!!

[Minerva]

The city is definitely using PSI. I recall seeing it in a couple of the court documents. That prep packet for LACoFD , I hope that's what we see. Did you take a PSI exam with a video portion?

I put up fireteam as just an example of what a video portion could be. I paid for the practice for fire team. After taking it, I kind of got the feeling that it was exactly what you said...

[Boxman]

The city is definitely using PSI. I recall seeing it in a couple of the court documents. That prep packet for LACoFD , I hope that's what we see. Did you take a PSI exam with a video portion?

I put up fireteam as just an example of what a video portion could be. I paid for the practice for fire team. After taking it, I kind of got the feeling that it was exactly what you said...

The PSI exam didn't have a video portion and I'm glad you noticed that. Fingers crossed that they decide to skip the video portion all together. I haven't seen a video or audio portion of a test yet that I thought was solid. But then again, last time I checked, test makers don't come knocking on my door for an opinion...haha.

[6019eligible]

if the argument for the 2007 exam was that the test was rushed and the prep courses didnt prepare you for the exam because they didnt know exactly what would be on the test. what will be the difference this time around if filing starts in july for a december exam that hasnt been completed. wont the prep courses be guessing once again and they can make the same argument for this test?

[HopefulFF]

if the argument for the 2007 exam was that the test was rushed and the prep courses didnt prepare you for the exam because they didnt know exactly what would be on the test. what will be the difference this time around if filing starts in july for a december exam that hasnt been completed. wont the prep courses be guessing once again and they can make the same argument for this test?

the next exam would be anything but rushed. They've been working on it for over a year.


The WPIX morning news had a segment on the firehouse closing rallies that are going to be taking place. I was shocked to see this get some coverage, it never has in the past. Also, apparently the actor Steve Buschemi was a firefighter before an actor and he's going to be at one of these rallies? That's great news. A big name brings in more attention.

[SleepyHollow]

as far as I understand it, this is the bill as was sent to albany......


Staff: Matthew C. Carlin, Counsel
Faith C. Corbett, Policy Analyst








THE COUNCIL

COMMITTEE REPORT OF THE HUMAN SERVICES DIVISION
Robert Newman, Legislative Director

COMMITTEE ON CIVIL SERVICE AND LABOR
Hon. James Sanders, Jr., Chair



May 25, 2011



PROPOSED RES. NO. 647-A: By Council Members Comrie, Greenfield, Arroyo, Brewer, Cabrera, Chin, Gonzalez, James, Koppell, Koslowitz, Lander, Mealy, Mendez, Rose, Seabrook, Vann, Williams and Jackson


TITLE: Resolution calling upon the New York State Legislature to pass legislation to authorize New York City to enact a local law to grant point credits for New York City resident applicants who pass the firefighter civil service exam and to establish eligibility criteria for such credits.






INTRODUCTION:
On Wednesday, May 25, 2011, the Committee on Civil Service and Labor chaired by Council Member James Sanders, Jr., will hold a hearing on Proposed Res. No. 647-A, a resolution calling upon the New York State Legislature to pass legislation to authorize New York City to enact a local law to grant point credits for New York city resident applicants who pass the firefighter civil service exam and to establish eligibility criteria for such credits.

Proposed Res. No. 647-A:

This resolution would note that the New York City Fire Department (“FDNY”) responds to more than 276,000 fire and non-fire related emergencies and more than 1.2 million medical emergencies each year; and
The resolution would also note that the FDNY has approximately 11,200 uniformed fire personnel representing the Department; and
This resolution would further state that the FDNY is the least racially diverse fire department in any major city in the United States and the least diverse agency in the City; and
The resolution would also note that although more than half of New York City’s 8.2 million residents belong to a racial or ethnic minority, the FDNY’s representation of Black and Hispanic personnel constitutes only nine percent; and
The resolution would also state that in other major U.S. cities, such as Los Angeles and Philadelphia, the representation of Black and Hispanic firefighters are 44% and 29%, respectively; and
This resolution would further state that despite minority recruitment drives dating back to 1994, the FDNY is still approximately 87% White; and

This resolution would additionally note that the current racial minority composition of the FDNY is 3.8% Black, 7.8% Hispanic, 0.9% Asian; and
The resolution would further note that notwithstanding the FDNY’s efforts to increase minority recruitment, the number of Black firefighters has actually decreased from approximately 6% of the force roughly two decades ago; and
The resolution would also state that the current racial composition of the FDNY fails to come close to reflecting the diversity of New York City, which as of the last available U.S. Census data had a population that is approximately 27% Black, 27% Hispanic and 10% Asian; and
This resolution would further note that the New York City Department of Administrative Services (“DCAS”) is charged with administering all civil service exams for New York City agencies by New York State law and the New York City Charter; and
The resolution would also state that currently DCAS grants bonus points to applicants of the firefighter civil service exam based on residency, however the current criteria for claiming such points is flawed; and
This resolution would further note that as the indicia for the residency point credit that have been used by DCAS in recent years are subject to potential fraud, eligibility criteria for the credit should be changed to include indicia of residency that will deter attempts at circumventing the residency requirement and subverting the purpose of the bonus; and
Finally, the resolution would state that additional criteria that should be used for determining eligibility for a residency requirement could include, but are not limited to, having a mortgage in the applicant’s name for the twelve-month period before the announcement of the examination; cable, gas or utility bills in the applicant’s name for the twelve-month period before the announcement of the examination; checking or saving account statements in the applicant’s name for the twelve-month period before the announcement of the examination; credit card statements in the applicant’s name for the twelve-month period before the announcement of the examination; W-2 forms in the applicant’s name for the twelve-month period before the announcement of the examination; high school diploma or transcript from a New York City school from the twelve-month period before the announcement of the examination; and General Educational Development credential from a New York City institution from the twelve-month period before the announcement of the examination; and
Thus, the resolution would state that the Council of the City of New York calls upon the New York State Legislature to pass legislation to authorize New York City to enact a local law to grant point credits for New York city resident applicants who pass the firefighter civil service exam and to establish eligibility criteria for such credits.

[HopefulFF]

So if I'm reading this right, the Council is giving the NYS Legislature a laundry list of criteria for which the council feels is acceptable proof for residency, and the Legislature is to pick from that list any, or all ?

[roadrunner09]

So if I'm reading this right, the Council is giving the NYS Legislature a laundry list of criteria for which the council feels is acceptable proof for residency, and the Legislature is to pick from that list any, or all ?

You posted pretty much the exact same thing I was going to word for word...

[HopefulFF]

You posted pretty much the exact same thing I was going to word for word...

OK, good. So we're on the same page then. That would mean it's not HS credit or bust on the tightening of the residency credits. That's good news.

[FairHiringFDNY]

6019.6019.6019.6019.6019.