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Thread: Fdny List 6019

  1. #11161
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    Hmmmmmm. Either way, I imagine if it gets as far as a committee hearing that people will be allowed to testify at least.


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    Quote Originally Posted by FairHiringFDNY View Post
    My reading is it will require all those things plus anything else. Read the testimony and the council wants it to be a HS credit
    I read it slightly differently. I emailed this off to a couple friends, who agree with my interpretation of the wording. Also as a disclaimer, things change all the time with the city, so really-who the f knows.

    IMO the most recent way this was written changes two things. It allows a city HS grad to get "the points" regardless of where he lives; thus rewarding someone for (theroeticaly) living in the city for 18 years.

    And it moves the residency period for all of us non-native new yorkers from after the test to before the test.

    I don't THINK you will HAVE to have the diploma to get the points-it just provides another mechanism to get them.
    I should have cleaned up the chili.....why didn't I clean up the chili!!!!!!

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    According to the sponsors of the bill the "the current criteria for claiming such points is flawed." Everything they mention along with the hs credits has already been in use and according to them is flawed. Granted the only diffrence is that it would have to be 12 months before the announcement of the test this time, but that can be faked as well.

    The bill has been worded by politicians, "Finally, the resolution would state that additional criteria that should be used for determining eligibility for a residency requirement COULD include, but are not limited to." Its so vague it basically means let us choose whatever we want but here are some examples of what we might use.

    The way I read it is they're just asking the state to allow them to change the rules and let them pick whatever they believe is a valid means of proving residency. AKA HS credits.
    Last edited by GIMMEFIRE600; 06-03-2011 at 12:56 PM.

  4. #11164
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    Faking residency would still be possible, I actually said that to myself as well. It would be more difficult though. Especially if they stop giving the test every 4 years, and do it more often/at different times. That was very briefly mentioned as a possible remedy The Vulcan's were in favor of during the trial. You may be right, they may be asking for the jurisdiction to pick what ever they please from the list, but when I saw the line about a mortgage I figured they couldn't literally mean everything on the list was a requirement. SleepyHollow's interpretation also makes sense too. I guess now we have to be amateur lawyers to figure this crap out.

  5. #11165
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleepyHollow View Post
    as far as I understand it, this is the bill as was sent to albany......


    Staff: Matthew C. Carlin, Counsel
    Faith C. Corbett, Policy Analyst








    THE COUNCIL

    COMMITTEE REPORT OF THE HUMAN SERVICES DIVISION
    Robert Newman, Legislative Director

    COMMITTEE ON CIVIL SERVICE AND LABOR
    Hon. James Sanders, Jr., Chair



    May 25, 2011



    PROPOSED RES. NO. 647-A: By Council Members Comrie, Greenfield, Arroyo, Brewer, Cabrera, Chin, Gonzalez, James, Koppell, Koslowitz, Lander, Mealy, Mendez, Rose, Seabrook, Vann, Williams and Jackson


    TITLE: Resolution calling upon the New York State Legislature to pass legislation to authorize New York City to enact a local law to grant point credits for New York City resident applicants who pass the firefighter civil service exam and to establish eligibility criteria for such credits.






    INTRODUCTION:
    On Wednesday, May 25, 2011, the Committee on Civil Service and Labor chaired by Council Member James Sanders, Jr., will hold a hearing on Proposed Res. No. 647-A, a resolution calling upon the New York State Legislature to pass legislation to authorize New York City to enact a local law to grant point credits for New York city resident applicants who pass the firefighter civil service exam and to establish eligibility criteria for such credits.

    Proposed Res. No. 647-A:

    This resolution would note that the New York City Fire Department (“FDNY”) responds to more than 276,000 fire and non-fire related emergencies and more than 1.2 million medical emergencies each year; and
    The resolution would also note that the FDNY has approximately 11,200 uniformed fire personnel representing the Department; and
    This resolution would further state that the FDNY is the least racially diverse fire department in any major city in the United States and the least diverse agency in the City; and
    The resolution would also note that although more than half of New York City’s 8.2 million residents belong to a racial or ethnic minority, the FDNY’s representation of Black and Hispanic personnel constitutes only nine percent; and
    The resolution would also state that in other major U.S. cities, such as Los Angeles and Philadelphia, the representation of Black and Hispanic firefighters are 44% and 29%, respectively; and
    This resolution would further state that despite minority recruitment drives dating back to 1994, the FDNY is still approximately 87% White; and

    This resolution would additionally note that the current racial minority composition of the FDNY is 3.8% Black, 7.8% Hispanic, 0.9% Asian; and
    The resolution would further note that notwithstanding the FDNY’s efforts to increase minority recruitment, the number of Black firefighters has actually decreased from approximately 6% of the force roughly two decades ago; and
    The resolution would also state that the current racial composition of the FDNY fails to come close to reflecting the diversity of New York City, which as of the last available U.S. Census data had a population that is approximately 27% Black, 27% Hispanic and 10% Asian; and
    This resolution would further note that the New York City Department of Administrative Services (“DCAS”) is charged with administering all civil service exams for New York City agencies by New York State law and the New York City Charter; and
    The resolution would also state that currently DCAS grants bonus points to applicants of the firefighter civil service exam based on residency, however the current criteria for claiming such points is flawed; and
    This resolution would further note that as the indicia for the residency point credit that have been used by DCAS in recent years are subject to potential fraud, eligibility criteria for the credit should be changed to include indicia of residency that will deter attempts at circumventing the residency requirement and subverting the purpose of the bonus; and
    Finally, the resolution would state that additional criteria that should be used for determining eligibility for a residency requirement could include, but are not limited to, having a mortgage in the applicant’s name for the twelve-month period before the announcement of the examination; cable, gas or utility bills in the applicant’s name for the twelve-month period before the announcement of the examination; checking or saving account statements in the applicant’s name for the twelve-month period before the announcement of the examination; credit card statements in the applicant’s name for the twelve-month period before the announcement of the examination; W-2 forms in the applicant’s name for the twelve-month period before the announcement of the examination; high school diploma or transcript from a New York City school from the twelve-month period before the announcement of the examination; and General Educational Development credential from a New York City institution from the twelve-month period before the announcement of the examination; and
    Thus, the resolution would state that the Council of the City of New York calls upon the New York State Legislature to pass legislation to authorize New York City to enact a local law to grant point credits for New York city resident applicants who pass the firefighter civil service exam and to establish eligibility criteria for such credits.
    12 month period before the announcement? How is that fair, now people coming from outside the city dont have a fighting chance when points are being given out to candidates that went to a NYC HS

  6. #11166
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    What I get from it is, if you want the 5 points you either have to show your HS diploma or GED from a city school or bills and statements dating back the past 12 months prior to the test to prove you're a resident of NYC.

  7. #11167
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    6019. 6019. 6019. 6019. 6019. 6019. 6019. 6019. 6019.
    Last edited by FairHiringFDNY; 08-08-2011 at 11:27 PM.

  8. #11168
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    Quote Originally Posted by FairHiringFDNY View Post
    That's how I read it too. Scary.

    I don't mind the 12 months prior to the filing. Especially with the actual date not nailed down. That is a way that more fakes will get rooted out.
    I think it's fair

  9. #11169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takethedoor174 View Post
    I think it's fair
    Maybe it is, but it will exclude candidates who actually lived in the city for the year back then, the ones who actually followed the rules and did the right thing.

  10. #11170
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerritMatters View Post
    Maybe it is, but it will exclude candidates who actually lived in the city for the year back then, the ones who actually followed the rules and did the right thing.
    huh?......
    I should have cleaned up the chili.....why didn't I clean up the chili!!!!!!

  11. #11171
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleepyHollow View Post
    huh?......
    If I'm understanding this correctly, you will only get the residency points if you live in the city 1 year prior to the test announcement, that would exclude guys who would be willing to move into the city for the determined year like in the last test. The last test you had to prove residency from March 07- March 08. Now guys wont have the opportunity to move to the city because you will have already been required to have residency for one year before the exam announcement. This is a move to prevent fraudulent points from being awarded but it will exclude the guys who will move to the city, do the right thing, in order to compete with those who already have been living in the 5 boroughs

  12. #11172
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    The whole reason for rEason for residency pts is to give people who are legit residents credit on the exam. Not give credit to ppl who are willing to become residents for the time frame required as proof on the exam. The whole point of this is to avoid giving points to the people you mention won't be able to get them now. So in that respect you're right, but that's the whole point. The old system was flawed, which is nothing against the ppl who legitimately moved here n got the points. They did what was required, not their fault it was flawed. If you're an honest resident you're not really worried about what criteria they're gonna pick bc youll be able to provide the proof. Just my 0.02.

  13. #11173
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerritMatters View Post
    If I'm understanding this correctly, you will only get the residency points if you live in the city 1 year prior to the test announcement, that would exclude guys who would be willing to move into the city for the determined year like in the last test. The last test you had to prove residency from March 07- March 08. Now guys wont have the opportunity to move to the city because you will have already been required to have residency for one year before the exam announcement. This is a move to prevent fraudulent points from being awarded but it will exclude the guys who will move to the city, do the right thing, in order to compete with those who already have been living in the 5 boroughs
    Personally, I don't believe there should be any bonus points except for vet and legacy points. That being said, there will be some sort of points for residency on the next exam. Why should you, or any other carpetbagger, be able to receive the same points as someone whos been a life long resident of the city? If they were not to implement the HS points, making the residency period before the application period is a great idea.

  14. #11174
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    Personally, I don't believe there should be any bonus points except for vet and legacy points. That being said, there will be some sort of points for residency on the next exam. Why should you, or any other carpetbagger, be able to receive the same points as someone whos been a life long resident of the city? If they were not to implement the HS points, making the residency period before the application period is a great idea.
    I'd agree with you, IF so many other departments not only gave residency points but required residency to even test for their department. If FDNY gave no credit to NYCers for their residency you're essentially putting people who live here at a huge disadvantage.

    And the departments that don't "require" it know they're gonna hire what, 20 guys/girls over 4 years, at most? They'll be able to get 20 qualified ppl from their town. So why not open it up to outsiders and get a huge infusion of cash for the city/state?
    Last edited by HopefulFF; 06-04-2011 at 01:49 PM.

  15. #11175
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    Some footage of this morning's Prospect Heights inferno. No audio, but still pretty goddamn humbling...


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MspecnCUT0I

  16. #11176
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    Personally, I don't believe there should be any bonus points except for vet and legacy points. That being said, there will be some sort of points for residency on the next exam. Why should you, or any other carpetbagger, be able to receive the same points as someone whos been a life long resident of the city? If they were not to implement the HS points, making the residency period before the application period is a great idea.
    Just because I live outside the city doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to compete with guys that live inside the city. Guys are willing to go the extra mile in order to get the job they want. If guys are BS'ing the paperwork, make the investigation harder

    Judging by your usual attitude on here, you wouldn't want these guys around because as hard as you try to cut everyone down, these same guys would make you look pathetic when it comes to hard work and character

  17. #11177
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    6019. 6019. 6019. 6019. 6019. 6019.
    Last edited by FairHiringFDNY; 08-08-2011 at 11:27 PM.

  18. #11178
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    Quote Originally Posted by FairHiringFDNY View Post
    HS points aren't the answer because I didn't have the option to attend a city public school because my parents didn't want to live here. If I had the choice I would of.

    I have been an actual resident for 6 years. Making the residency period before the exam and possibly even longer then 12 months is the closest thing they can do to ensure residents are actually getting the points. At 18 you have the choice to move here.

    Like I said earlier (and I hope it doesn't come to this), but we may have to testify about this logic before the committee at some point (pretty sure it's a law that we would be allowed to).
    Last edited by roadrunner09; 06-04-2011 at 02:03 PM.

  19. #11179
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerritMatters View Post
    Just because I live outside the city doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to compete with guys that live inside the city. Guys are willing to go the extra mile in order to get the job they want. If guys are BS'ing the paperwork, make the investigation harder

    Judging by your usual attitude on here, you wouldn't want these guys around because as hard as you try to cut everyone down, these same guys would make you look pathetic when it comes to hard work and character
    I'm not posting on the forum to argue nonsense with you about your hard work and character vs mine. You still didn't back up your argument as to why you deserve the same points as a life long resident.

    If I was you and was "willing to go the extra mile" and knew the city gives a new exam every four years (btw its been over four years since the last exam), I would've moved to the city a long time ago and not have waited for the announcement.

    I can tell you this much, I've had multiple opportunities to move out of nyc and haven't for one reason and one reason only.

  20. #11180
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    Quote Originally Posted by FairHiringFDNY View Post
    HS points aren't the answer because I didn't have the option to attend a city public school because my parents didn't want to live here. If I had the choice I would of.

    I have been an actual resident for 6 years. Making the residency period before the exam and possibly even longer then 12 months is the closest thing they can do to ensure residents are actually getting the points. At 18 you have the choice to move here.
    Good Point.

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