Fdny List 6019

[bxfdnycandidate11]

from what i remember you need to have at minimum 20/40 uncorrected combined vision.

yea its minimum 20/40 uncorrected with both eyes together, but they also check each individual eye as well. each eye must be a minmum of 20/50 uncorrected. this is to avoid having candidates depend on just one strong eye to make up for a highly deficient other eye.

[CaptainIV]

Its hard to stay motivated with all thats been going on with the exam and fdny but I still have some hope on 6019! The city didn’t need the hire cause they took of the fifth members off the engine and now lets wait to see what happens with the 20 firehouses? If they close then I could be time to hang up 6019 gloves

[myles8683]

ive been doing some research online to find out what exactly makes someone a nyc resident. as we all know people fake residency all the time, there is no definite answer but a few things it does say is where if you have a car the insurance goes to/your adress with the post office is a very common answer and also the adress on your state liscence. since most people in nyc dont have cars. it never mentions anything about a high school diploma.

i dont get how people can twist things like that to fit there own needs. as a city resident and a vet iam absolutely appaled that someone who did nothing but graduate from high school even be in contention for such points.

[Minerva]

The situation with 6019 has broken down many hopes for all of us. But do not give us. This job is still within our reach. It may seem hopeless at times, but this situation is not. Nothing is impossible. Keep pushing forward. Take control of everything that you can. Study. Workout. Learn. Live. Stay out of trouble. And keep in mind that if we receive a fair exam, which I still feel that we will, then NO ONE can stop you from scoring well. NO ONE can stop you from running the CPAT in 6 minutes flat. They can't take away a clean back ground, good health, they can't stop you from passing the medical and that step mill, on the first try. And they cannot stop you from passing the run that gets you to the rock. And once you get to the rock, they can't stop you from studying, getting high marks, from working hard and excelling.

[JerkAlert]

Its hard to stay motivated with all thats been going on with the exam and fdny but I still have some hope on 6019! The city didn’t need the hire cause they took of the fifth members off the engine and now lets wait to see what happens with the 20 firehouses? If they close then I could be time to hang up 6019 gloves

Don't let the closing of the 20 houses get you down bro. I stated before my thoughts on this. When they close the houses the members don't get laid off, they get detailed to other companies a to fill a vacancy. Bloomberg thinks this is going to put a stop the to the OT which it very well may. But, when this happens all the guys making tons of money in OT might be going to retire...a lot of them. Otherwise they are losing money plain and simple. This brings the city back to where they were in manpower before the closing of the 20 houses. They need to hire regardless, they just can't because of our unfortunate situation with the Vulcans. Keep your heads up boys somethings needs to happen.

[BTown]

Just read on the Rant that 3000 members did not bother to vote in the UFA

local elections. With all the BS going on with the FDNY you think that more

members would be at least willing to cast a vote, maybe there's too much

apathy out there. Bloomy must be licking his chops telling his pals that the

membership is real happy about the union - city relationship. Think about

Tier 3 retirement and how that was signed into law with little opposition. And

how about the cuts in survivor benefits for your family when and if you guys

ever get on the Job. Support rank order hiring off #6019

[hopefully09]

Firefighter Test Judge Wants Special Master To Decide on Remedies

By FLORA FAIR | Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 5:00 pm

News that a special master may be appointed to consider individual plaintiff claims in the Firefighter exam case signals the possible end of a long-running lawsuit that’s left the Fire Department short-staffed and FDNY candidates caught in a years-long hiring freeze.

U.S. District Judge Nicholas Garaufis issued a memorandum recommending the appointment of a special master for the individual claims process. For the Vulcan Society, a fraternal organization of black Firefighters that initiated the case, this would be a positive step.

‘Makes It Fair, Transparent’

“The plaintiffs-interveners support the idea,” said Darius Charney, an attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights, which is representing the Vulcans. “At the end of the day, we want the process to be as fair and transparent as possible, and the best way to ensure that is to have a neutral decision-maker, rather than one of the parties to the lawsuit, making individual eligibility determinations.”

The lawsuit goes back to 2002, when the Vulcans filed a discrimination claim against the Fire Department based on its two most recent Firefighter exams with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. The Justice Department investigated FDNY exams from 1999 and 2002, and filed a lawsuit which the Vulcans joined in 2007.

The suit claimed a pattern of discriminatory hiring practices against black and Hispanic Firefighter candidates, explicit in the FDNY exam results. A significant percentage of minority applicants scored lower than whites, and the plaintiffs argued that the test essentially set them up to fail.

Judge Garaufis found in 2009 that the two exams had a “disparate impact” minority candidates. The 2007 FDNY test, Exam 6019, was created to address these allegations even before the suit had been filed. But the new exam was criticized as having vague and hypothetical questions that could confuse test-takers, and the judge decided that it was also discriminatory.

Big Gains Not Good Enough

The eligibility list for Exam 6019 had about 12.3 percent black candidates ranked in the top 4,000, which is usually the cut-off point for FDNY hiring. Hispanics made up about 20 percent of the top 4,000, with white test-takers sharing a much larger percentage. Mr. Charney said these percentages weren’t proportional to the ethnicities of the test-takers.

The city and fire unions have denied any racial discrimination by the department, noting that a record percentage of minority candidates scored well enough to be hired, though it remains one of the least-diverse firefighting forces of any major city, with about 88 percent white members.

In 2010, Judge Garaufis gave the city a choice of five different hiring options for the FDNY, which included priority hiring for black and Hispanic candidates. The Bloomberg administration rejected the hiring guidelines, saying they amounted to racial quotas. In response, Judge Garaufis ordered an immediate hiring freeze at the department last August, which had not done any hiring since 2008 due to budget problems.

Since then, the FDNY has spent about $2 million a month trying to plug the staffing hole left by the freeze, while firefighters deal with the removal of the fifth Firefighter from all engine companies and the possibility of losing 20 fire companies next month. For the unions, this is not just a political issue, but one of public safety.

‘Hire the Best Candidates’

“Our concern is simply the staff,” said Alexander Hagan, president of the Uniformed Fire Officers Association. “We would like an exam that would withstand legal challenges and would allow the department to hire the very best candidates possible.” Mr. Hagan said that a high reading comprehension level and top physical conditioning are both vital to the job.

Decisions remaining in the case involve about $15 million in damages for black and Hispanic candidates who took the 1999 and 2002 exams, as well as $50-$75 million in back pay. If appointed, the special master would determine compensation and other issues like seniority rights for those hired.

Just how this money would be split, and among how many people, remains to be decided. Mr. Charney said it depends on how many FDNY candidates from the exams decide to seek compensation. “There were over 7,000 black and Hispanic applicants who took the two discriminatory examinations, but we will not be able to locate all of them, and not all of the folks we do locate will return claim forms,” he said. “There will probably be a lot of class members whose claims are not disputed by the city or the DOJ, and those claims will not have to go to the special master.”

Exam 6019 candidates scored a victory when Mayor Bloomberg signed into law a temporary increase in the maximum age for applying to take the Firefighter exam from 29 to 35 for all those who took the exam in the last five years or who were on a special military list from an earlier exam. Test experts representing the city and the Vulcans are designing a new exam that should be finished before the year’s end.

“I just want good people who can compete successfully on the Civil Service test and that the merit system is maintained,” Mr. Hagan said.

[vekdoggs75]

Firefighter Test Judge Wants Special Master To Decide on Remedies

By FLORA FAIR | Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 5:00 pm

News that a special master may be appointed to consider individual plaintiff claims in the Firefighter exam case signals the possible end of a long-running lawsuit that’s left the Fire Department short-staffed and FDNY candidates caught in a years-long hiring freeze.

U.S. District Judge Nicholas Garaufis issued a memorandum recommending the appointment of a special master for the individual claims process. For the Vulcan Society, a fraternal organization of black Firefighters that initiated the case, this would be a positive step.

‘Makes It Fair, Transparent’

“The plaintiffs-interveners support the idea,” said Darius Charney, an attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights, which is representing the Vulcans. “At the end of the day, we want the process to be as fair and transparent as possible, and the best way to ensure that is to have a neutral decision-maker, rather than one of the parties to the lawsuit, making individual eligibility determinations.”

The lawsuit goes back to 2002, when the Vulcans filed a discrimination claim against the Fire Department based on its two most recent Firefighter exams with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. The Justice Department investigated FDNY exams from 1999 and 2002, and filed a lawsuit which the Vulcans joined in 2007.

The suit claimed a pattern of discriminatory hiring practices against black and Hispanic Firefighter candidates, explicit in the FDNY exam results. A significant percentage of minority applicants scored lower than whites, and the plaintiffs argued that the test essentially set them up to fail.

Judge Garaufis found in 2009 that the two exams had a “disparate impact” minority candidates. The 2007 FDNY test, Exam 6019, was created to address these allegations even before the suit had been filed. But the new exam was criticized as having vague and hypothetical questions that could confuse test-takers, and the judge decided that it was also discriminatory.

Big Gains Not Good Enough

The eligibility list for Exam 6019 had about 12.3 percent black candidates ranked in the top 4,000, which is usually the cut-off point for FDNY hiring. Hispanics made up about 20 percent of the top 4,000, with white test-takers sharing a much larger percentage. Mr. Charney said these percentages weren’t proportional to the ethnicities of the test-takers.

The city and fire unions have denied any racial discrimination by the department, noting that a record percentage of minority candidates scored well enough to be hired, though it remains one of the least-diverse firefighting forces of any major city, with about 88 percent white members.

In 2010, Judge Garaufis gave the city a choice of five different hiring options for the FDNY, which included priority hiring for black and Hispanic candidates. The Bloomberg administration rejected the hiring guidelines, saying they amounted to racial quotas. In response, Judge Garaufis ordered an immediate hiring freeze at the department last August, which had not done any hiring since 2008 due to budget problems.

Since then, the FDNY has spent about $2 million a month trying to plug the staffing hole left by the freeze, while firefighters deal with the removal of the fifth Firefighter from all engine companies and the possibility of losing 20 fire companies next month. For the unions, this is not just a political issue, but one of public safety.

‘Hire the Best Candidates’

“Our concern is simply the staff,” said Alexander Hagan, president of the Uniformed Fire Officers Association. “We would like an exam that would withstand legal challenges and would allow the department to hire the very best candidates possible.” Mr. Hagan said that a high reading comprehension level and top physical conditioning are both vital to the job.

Decisions remaining in the case involve about $15 million in damages for black and Hispanic candidates who took the 1999 and 2002 exams, as well as $50-$75 million in back pay. If appointed, the special master would determine compensation and other issues like seniority rights for those hired.

Just how this money would be split, and among how many people, remains to be decided. Mr. Charney said it depends on how many FDNY candidates from the exams decide to seek compensation. “There were over 7,000 black and Hispanic applicants who took the two discriminatory examinations, but we will not be able to locate all of them, and not all of the folks we do locate will return claim forms,” he said. “There will probably be a lot of class members whose claims are not disputed by the city or the DOJ, and those claims will not have to go to the special master.”

Exam 6019 candidates scored a victory when Mayor Bloomberg signed into law a temporary increase in the maximum age for applying to take the Firefighter exam from 29 to 35 for all those who took the exam in the last five years or who were on a special military list from an earlier exam. Test experts representing the city and the Vulcans are designing a new exam that should be finished before the year’s end.

“I just want good people who can compete successfully on the Civil Service test and that the merit system is maintained,” Mr. Hagan said.

Sooooo 6019 - We be ****ed?

[MerritMatters]

Just read on the Rant that 3000 members did not bother to vote in the UFA

local elections. With all the BS going on with the FDNY you think that more

members would be at least willing to cast a vote, maybe there's too much

apathy out there. Bloomy must be licking his chops telling his pals that the

membership is real happy about the union - city relationship. Think about

Tier 3 retirement and how that was signed into law with little opposition. And

how about the cuts in survivor benefits for your family when and if you guys

ever get on the Job. Support rank order hiring off #6019

Just out of curiosity, what were the cuts to survivor benefits? and does it effect guys already on the job or just new hires?

[myles8683]

i would think if the filing period is in july we would have heard something by now rite? as far as them posting it on the website or will we just see that its open one day?

[HopefulFF]

i would think if the filing period is in july we would have heard something by now rite? as far as them posting it on the website or will we just see that its open one day?

As best as I can tell, no. Last time around there wasn't word (at least on any forums, here, or else where) until about 5 days before the filing period opened. Knowing how the city operates I was figuring if there's no word by around July 15th-20th, that the filing period wasn't opening as quickly as it's being made out to now.

[FDNYPD]

I just thought of something (or maybe it was already said and slipped into my subconscious). The list numbers for the last test were in the 2000s, correct? And that was back in 2006 when the job market was still decent and FNDY wasnt paying as well as they are now? Sweet Jesus I'm predicting applications and list numbers in well into the 5th digit. Thats not to say the cream of the crop will be applying but I'd say if you want half of a shot, get the residency credit...

[MerritMatters]

I just thought of something (or maybe it was already said and slipped into my subconscious). The list numbers for the last test were in the 2000s, correct? And that was back in 2006 when the job market was still decent and FNDY wasnt paying as well as they are now? Sweet Jesus I'm predicting applications and list numbers in well into the 5th digit. Thats not to say the cream of the crop will be applying but I'd say if you want half of a shot, get the residency credit...

I remember someone saying that they hired into the 5000 range, and about 20000 took the test, something like that

[DRid]

Just got a call from FD asking to confirm my contact info. The woman said the filing period will be in July, and the test will be in December. When asked if I would have to pay the application fees and all the other test/investigation fees that I've paid the first time I took the test (totaling to about $120 or so) I was told yes. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that any of what the Goofus did is right, I think that the test was perfectly legit but I don't think that guys who took 6019 should have to pay for it again. Hasn't the 4-5 year wait been enough payment? Unfortunately for me I'll be on another deployment by December, I'll have to take the test when I get back and probably end up waiting out another economic/race issue by that time.

Is it possible I could get in trouble for checking the "Black" box in the racial data section of the exam even if I'm not black? Who's to say I'm white anyway, perhaps I identify as black. It's not like they'd chase my genetic history back hundreds of years to find out. Has this ever been brought up as a means of protest against affirmative action within the 6019 community? Maybe in 2011 90% of test takers will be "black", think that'd make Garaufis and the Vulcans happy?

[BigGriffC12]

I took the Allentown Pa test..I was top 50..by the time I got to the PAT I moved up 9 slots just by no shows, or failures..so if you figure with the attrition rate..retirees, promotions, people who quit, people who washout of the acadamy, people who don't make it through probation, people who can't afford to fly or drive for the CPAT, people who just took the test so they can say they tried to look for a job so they can continue to collect unemployment, people who fail the CPAT, who fail along the way and other reasons..it's easy to see how if you were top 5000 you stood a decent chance of being hired..

[Desire4theJob]

Good point about paying for this exam. You charged me $100+ for a test that is basically disqualified if you start a new list, and you want me to pay again? Some balls...

[vekdoggs75]

Good point about paying for this exam. You charged me $100+ for a test that is basically disqualified if you start a new list, and you want me to pay again? Some balls...

If 6019 listees have to pay again, they should have buses transporting us to the exam like they had in the minority neighborhoods last time.

[MerritMatters]

Just got a call from FD asking to confirm my contact info. The woman said the filing period will be in July, and the test will be in December. When asked if I would have to pay the application fees and all the other test/investigation fees that I've paid the first time I took the test (totaling to about $120 or so) I was told yes. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that any of what the Goofus did is right, I think that the test was perfectly legit but I don't think that guys who took 6019 should have to pay for it again. Hasn't the 4-5 year wait been enough payment? Unfortunately for me I'll be on another deployment by December, I'll have to take the test when I get back and probably end up waiting out another economic/race issue by that time.

Is it possible I could get in trouble for checking the "Black" box in the racial data section of the exam even if I'm not black? Who's to say I'm white anyway, perhaps I identify as black. It's not like they'd chase my genetic history back hundreds of years to find out. Has this ever been brought up as a means of protest against affirmative action within the 6019 community? Maybe in 2011 90% of test takers will be "black", think that'd make Garaufis and the Vulcans happy?

hey maybe u just misread the box and put the wrong one, whos gunna say S*** to ya?

[BK204NYC]

If 6019 listees have to pay again, they should have buses transporting us to the exam like they had in the minority neighborhoods last time.

Don't hold your breath. While we're on the topic of handouts, if things don't work out on the next exam and some of us age out, we can see if the city will reimburse us for the Lasik surgery many had to get the first go around in order to pass the medical that ended up being a waste of time. Anything is worth a shot, right?

[vekdoggs75]

Don't hold your breath. While we're on the topic of handouts, if things don't work out on the next exam and some of us age out, we can see if the city will reimburse us for the Lasik surgery many had to get the first go around in order to pass the medical that ended up being a waste of time. Anything is worth a shot, right?

or the Cardiologist I had to go see on a wasted Stress test. My Doc's response to the exam "Son you just wasted your money"