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Thread: Fdny List 6019

  1. #11441
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    Thumbs up Stop the Dept of Social Justice. NOBAMA

    Quote Originally Posted by bravest2009 View Post
    How could we request a waiver or the fee?
    All the candidates on List #6019 who passed the test should contact the legal

    eagles who were working with them at the start of all this BS, and ask

    just like the vulcans have. Remember if a reduction in fees is granted to the

    disadvantaged then the candidates from #6019 should receive one as well.

    In today's world only the white man is being discriminated against.

    Stay safe.


  2. #11442
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBorn View Post
    They are only down 250 in total headcount of the dept? I thought it was more a while ago?
    That was just that particular tour. Total headcount is down a little over 800. If we still rode with 5 in the engines, itd be significantly higher.
    To Persist is to Conquer.

  3. #11443
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkylinePCG View Post
    That was just that particular tour. Total headcount is down a little over 800. If we still rode with 5 in the engines, itd be significantly higher.
    Thanks, I figured thats where I was confused.

  4. #11444
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkylinePCG View Post
    That was just that particular tour. Total headcount is down a little over 800. If we still rode with 5 in the engines, itd be significantly higher.
    add 300 to that list w/ the 5th man. But there is something called Roster tours that most of you don't know about that make up for that theoretical loss. So the 5th man is irrelevant to you guys and your circumstances.
    Last edited by FFFRED; 07-10-2011 at 07:48 AM.

  5. #11445
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    Hey guys anyone know of a gym in the northern bronx with a stair climber, I haven't been able to find one...thanks.

  6. #11446
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    Hey guys, isn't the application for the next test coming out this week or did they push the date back to apply. Sorry, I've been away and just getting back.
    List 14XX

  7. #11447
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    as last we heard i belive the 13th was the date it was pushed back to. having said that i will be absolutely shocked if it takes place

  8. #11448
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    does any one know if they are actually in need of corrections officers, or are they just perpetually giving tests. I tried to look it up via other forums, I didn't find any good info

  9. #11449
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    article in the post says filing could start as soon as tomorrow...and that the cost was lowered back to 30 dollars

  10. #11450
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    FDNY To Reportedly Offer Entrance Exam Next Year

    By: NY1 News

    The New York City Fire Department will reportedly offer next year its first entrance exam in more than four years.

    The New York Post says the test will be held early next year, but the sign-up process could begin as early as tomorrow.

    Applicants would be able to apply through mid-September.

    A federal judge reportedly signed off on the process, but there are still some legal issues to work out.

    The same judge has agreed with a federal lawsuit claiming the city's previous firefighter exam discriminated against blacks and Hispanics.

  11. #11451
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    FDNY gets 'hire' power

    By MITCHEL MADDUX

    Last Updated: 5:16 AM, July 12, 2011

    Posted: 2:16 AM, July 12, 2011

    New York City is about to reopen the books for aspiring firefighters -- offering its first FDNY entrance test in more than four years early next year.

    City attorneys say the sign-up process -- expected to draw as many as 40,000 applicants -- could begin as early as tomorrow and run until mid-September, with hopeful candidates signaling their interest online.

    Brooklyn federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis signed off on the process. But many issues remain unresolved, since the judge agreed with a federal lawsuit claiming the city's previous firefighter entrance test unfairly discriminated against black and Hispanic applicants.

    Garaufis has been overseeing the issue while a special master works with various groups, such as the city, unions and organizations representing minority applicants.

    Yesterday, he heard arguments on the cost of taking the exam.

    After city representatives argued for a $54 charge, the judge sided with representatives for minorities who wanted a $30 fee, the same as for the city's previous exam in 2006.

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/f...#ixzz1Rtq2vWs7

  12. #11452
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    but there are still some legal issues to work out.

    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    But many issues remain unresolved


    Let us just hope that they are not referring to the highschool credit nonsense as one of the issues...

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    Does anyone know if they offer a rescheduled exam date for military personnel that will be in Afghanistan during the actual test? Thanks.

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    Default Village Voice Lots of info here.

    Judge Orders City Not To Increase Fee for New FDNY Entrance Exam
    By Steven Thrasher Tue., Jul. 12 2011 at 12:08 PM



    Nothing is ever easy with the federal government's four decade long attempt to force the city to comply with the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and make the Fire Department more diverse. As we wrote about in our cover story last December, U.S. District Judge Nicholas Garaufis recently ordered that the latest FDNY exam the city gave, test "6019," created "disparate impact" on minorities and could not be used, even though far more minorities took and passed it than ever had before.

    Since December, all parties have accepted the ruling and, seemingly, have been working together under a court appointed Special Master to devise a new test (test "2000.") But they were back in court yesterday when the city wanted to charge $54 for the new test, a whopping 80% increase over the last time the exam was given just four years ago.

    The judge said no, and also found a way to help the "limbo class" who took the last exam but who'd be too old to take the new one have another shot at becoming firefighters.

    Not surprisingly, the Vulcan Society, the organization of black firefighters that's intervening in the federal government's lawsuit against the city, was not happy about the increased fee.

    "At a time when we are doing everything we can" to increase minority applications, FDNY Captain Paul Washington of the Vulcans said, "and people are really struggling, this isn't going to help" more black and Hispanic people take the exam. The fee would create yet another barrier to doing something about the fact that white people make up about 35% of the city's population but over 90% of the FDNY's ranks.

    Surprisingly, the City's counsel said that Washington's concern that the $54 filing fee would keep certain people from taking the exam was "probably true." But it said it would suppress all people, and not just "black people." The City didn't seem to think this was a bad idea, though. While the Vulcans and the federal government argued that the NYPD's one time use of a free entrance exam had helped it to achieve a far more diverse police department (now "majority minority"), the City argued that that test was an experiment in "failure." More minorities and applicants in general signed up to take the free NYPD exam, the City said, but only 24% of those who signed up actually showed up to take it. To them, it was "a waste of money."

    The plaintiffs didn't argue that the new FDNY exam -- which is being created by testing experts jointly selected by the Vulcans, the Feds and the City, and is being developed with input from all of them -- should be free. Even Washington admitted that some fee separates the serious from the unserious. But they were concerned that, at $54, FDNY exam 2000 would be the most expensive of the city exams, which had nearly doubled in price since 6019 was given in 2007. Considering black people have not fared especially well in the past four years, they didn't understand why the City was choosing to create yet another stumbling roadblock.

    The City argued that their administration code dictates that entrance exams must be tied to the starting salary for the jobs for which they screen. So, since starting firefighters earn more than starting cops, the FDNY exam will always be more than the NYPD's. Also when the FDNY starting salary was much lower four years ago, the filing fee was less.

    But outside of court, Captain Washington said the city doesn't have to charge more. He says the commissioners of the FDNY and DCAS (the Department of City Administrative Services) had indicated to him that they were open to lowering the fee. So he didn't understand why Mayor Bloomberg was digging in his heels.

    Judge Garaufis asked, at one point, why, if a job was important to you and you were willing to pay $30 to take the exam for it, why wouldn't you pay $54? Ornery and mildly cranky, as he's often seemed on the bench in this case, he looked at the fee from all sides. What would be wrong with having no fee at all, he also wondered aloud. He grilled the City on how much the exam would cost to give. When they replied $49 a person, he yelled that at $54, the City will be making "a profit!"

    Garaufis also wanted the City to publicize the exam as much as possible. "The mayor has a radio program. Maybe he should advertise" the test there, he suggested, to laughter in the Court. "I could give him a script. Or he could provide his own."

    Later, though, he told the City that they'd never recoup the money they spent giving the exam, and that wasn't his problem. He is clearly exasperated with having to force the City, repeatedly, to do something about a problem that they seem to find every way to exacerbate. Garaufis wants to see as many people -- of all races -- take the next exam, and if "that's 50,000, I'll consider that a great success." The City may not agree from a financial point of view, he conceded, but "the City found the money for the libraries, the firehouse and the senior centers. They'll find the money for this. I'm sure."

    The City wanted an answer on what they could charge, so they could open the filing period for the new exam 2000 tomorrow, July 13, leave it open until September 13, and then give 2000 in January, 2012. Last evening, Garaufis issued an order saying that, as it was for 6019, the fee for 2000 will be $30.00.

    The fee wasn't the only issue addressed in Court yesterday. Also on the docket:

    -- Garaufis congratulated the two sides for working together with the Special Master to agree on new "residency requirements" for taking FDNY exams. As it is, test takers get five bonus points for being residents of the city. But the Vulcans argued that many fire fighters move out to the island, their kids are raised out there, and then their families find a way to fake City residency when it comes time to taking the exam. Three forms of identification will be needed to prove you live in New York City when sitting for exam 2000.

    -- In our feature, we focused a lot on the "limbo class," especially people who'd aced 6019, who were willing to retake 2000, but who'd be older than the cutoff age (29) and ineligible by the time it was given. Since the last time the case was in Court, the City Council passed a law saying that the cutoff age for people who'd made it onto the list for 6019 would be 35. But the judge wasn't happy that the Council was singling out applicants who'd made it on the list, saying that anyone who took 6019 could retake it. If an "exam is illegal, the results are illegal," he said. The City didn't fight him on this, only asking that he order it from the bench. "If you want an order from the court, it will be provided," Garaufis said

    -- And, finally, Garaufis expressed grave concern about people lying on exam 2000 about their race. He said he'd read blogs encouraging applicants to lie in order to undermine the entire process of attempting to make the FDNY come into compliance with the Civil Rights Act.The City pointed out that it would say on exam 2000 that anyone who lied about anything in their application, including their race, would be ineligible for that job. Garaufis wanted them to point out the test is under the jurisdiction of a federal court, and lying could create appropriately severe consequences.

    After the hearing, a lawyer for the Vulcans identified the blog in question as Merit Matters, which we're familiar with and which is run by a man named Paul Mannix who is usually in court for these hearings (but was absent yesterday). We didn't find the exact call to statistical deception Garaufis had described there, but we did find this cartoon:
    AACartoon.png
    Last edited by GIMMEFIRE600; 07-12-2011 at 12:46 PM.

  15. #11455
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    Judge Orders City Not To Increase Fee for New FDNY Entrance Exam
    By Steven Thrasher Tue., Jul. 12 2011 at 12:08 PM

    -- In our feature, we focused a lot on the "limbo class," especially people who'd aced 6019, who were willing to retake 2000, but who'd be older than the cutoff age (29) and ineligible by the time it was given. Since the last time the case was in Court, the City Council passed a law saying that the cutoff age for people who'd made it onto the list for 6019 would be 35. But the judge wasn't happy that the Council was singling out applicants who'd made it on the list, saying that anyone who took 6019 could retake it. If an "exam is illegal, the results are illegal," he said. The City didn't fight him on this, only asking that he order it from the bench. "If you want an order from the court, it will be provided," Garaufis said
    What the hell does this mean? Does it mean he could over-rule the age extension and have everyone over 29 take the exam?

    Btw, if the test is given at the end of this year or early next year, the first class will most likely graduate at the end of 2012 or early 2013. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of the high ranking officers say at one of the hearings that the tipping point (in safety) will most likely be when they're 1000 under? And if what Skyline said in his previous post is true, I'd say the dept. is getting pretty damn close to the tipping point. Ah, frustration upon frustration...!
    6019- was sitting at 13xx
    2000- now sitting at 18xx

  16. #11456
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    I think he was saying that every one who took the last test can retake it, not just those who "made" it on the list. I thought that was the law already, I didn't know it was just for the list.

    one of those articles made it sound like he was the one who granted the age ext.

  17. #11457
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    Quote Originally Posted by brooklynborn View Post
    i think he was saying that every one who took the last test can retake it, not just those who "made" it on the list. I thought that was the law already, i didn't know it was just for the list.

    One of those articles made it sound like he was the one who granted the age ext.
    oh brother!
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    Last edited by GIMMEFIRE600; 07-12-2011 at 02:26 PM.

  18. #11458
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    I was referring to MY1Goal's question, no it does not mean that. It means that every one who sat for test 6019 can retake it regardless of wether or not they did well enough to make it onto a list.

    The second part of my post was referring to one of the articles seeming unclear/misleading and making it sound as though the idea for the age ext came from the judge himself. We all know it came from the Age ext. group and the City Council.

  19. #11459
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    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/f...-rss&FEEDNAME=

    I don't know if anyone saw/read this..but it's out there..

  20. #11460
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    I hope their 3 forms of ID are a little more difficult to fake than a Sports Illustrated subscription.

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