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Thread: Fdny List 6019

  1. #11481
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    Meh. The pendulum swings almost as hard the other way. They can't force us to state race lest they trample the 1964 Civil Rights act. The "Title II and VII of which forbid racial discrimination in 'public accommodations' and race and sex discrimination in employment"

    I know there are other ways around it but when 800 minorities go into the next clas, I think we'l have a pretty strong case...


  2. #11482
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    maybe under race ethnicity there is a box marked "other" thats what i always check on these things cuz it turns out my great uncle was asian so iam not sure how to classify myself and get mildly offended when i see that question. do some geneology digging guys or just mark "other"

    i dont get mildly offended but now that iam forced to answer it i will.

  3. #11483
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    Quote Originally Posted by myles8683 View Post
    maybe under race ethnicity there is a box marked "other" thats what i always check on these things cuz it turns out my great uncle was asian so iam not sure how to classify myself and get mildly offended when i see that question. do some geneology digging guys or just mark "other"

    i dont get mildly offended but now that iam forced to answer it i will.
    Somehow I don't think they will let us off that easy. Putting a box for "other" does not make their social experiment any easier. It is pretty much the same as leaving it blank.

    In the document it states the choices are,“White, Black, Hispanic, American Indian/Alaskan Native, or Asian/Pacific Islander”. We all know that they are only concerned about choices #2 and #3. Will your exam be thrown out if this portion is left blank? There is really no elaboration other than it will be required to respond in this section.

  4. #11484
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    Quote Originally Posted by BK204NYC View Post
    Somehow I don't think they will let us off that easy. Putting a box for "other" does not make their social experiment any easier. It is pretty much the same as leaving it blank.

    In the document it states the choices are,“White, Black, Hispanic, American Indian/Alaskan Native, or Asian/Pacific Islander”. We all know that they are only concerned about choices #2 and #3. Will your exam be thrown out if this portion is left blank? There is really no elaboration other than it will be required to respond in this section.
    this is unreal

  5. #11485
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    I'm mostly white but part Hawaiian, I've been putting white down but thinking of putting down P.I now. Stupid that race even matters.

  6. #11486
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    There is no way in hell I'm indicating my race/ethnicity on the next test. I can't believe they are trying to make this mandatory.

  7. #11487
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    Quote Originally Posted by johhnyboy View Post
    There is no way in hell I'm indicating my race/ethnicity on the next test. I can't believe they are trying to make this mandatory.
    i dont want to either. but it seems ike if we want to be fdny were gonna have to suck it up and check our civil liberties at the door.

  8. #11488
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    What will be the repercussions if it is left blank? Will the exam be invalid? We need some answers because we do not need to divulge any info that is not necessary, or that will harm us in the long run. Every civil service test that I have taken this is always an optional part. Why should this exam be any different? Such ****in nonsense!

  9. #11489
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    NY fire dept. hopefuls must state their race: court

    7/14/2011 COMMENTS (0)

    NEW YORK, July 14 (Reuters) - A federal judge ruled Wednesday that New York City's revamped firefighter application must require applicants to state their race, ethnicity and gender, among other demographic data, so the courts can assure that the tests do not discriminate against minority applicants.

    The city is in the process of revising its examinations for fire-department applicants after U.S. District Judge Nicholas Garaufis ruled last August that the written test to screen and rank applicants between 1999 and 2007 constituted a "pattern and practice of intentional discrimination against blacks."

    That ruling, which forced the city to stop using the test until the court determined it was not discriminatory, prevented the appointment of approximately 300 firefighters who passed the test.

    The rulings derive from a 2007 lawsuit the U.S. Department of Justice brought against the city, contending that while minority groups such as blacks and Hispanics made up a substantial percentage of the city's population, they were disproportionately underrepresented within the fire department.

    On Tuesday, the city submitted a revised draft to the court that mostly passed Garaufis' muster. However, the judge took issue with the city's proposal to give applicants the choice not to reveal demographic data such as race and ethnicity, as it does on other competitive hiring examinations.

    "[I]t is incumbent on the court to verify that the city's current hiring practices comply with the requirements of federal and state antidiscrimination law and the collection of exam applicant demographic data will be critical to fulfilling that obligation," Garaufis wrote.



    SEPARATE ORDER REDUCES FEE

    Georgia Pestana, chief of the labor and employment law division for New York City, said the city was complying with the court's order by changing the online application to require applicants to state their race, ethnicity and gender. The data will only be used for court monitoring purposes, not to influence hiring decisions, according to the order.

    "Although the programming will cause a delay, we are still hoping to open the application process this week," Pestana said.

    A separate order from Garaufis on Tuesday requires the city to lower its application fee from $54 to $30, in order to encourage a more diverse pool of applicants.

    Darius Charney, an attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights who is representing Vulcan Society Inc., a black firefighters' group, said the decision will allow the court to keep tabs on the city's hiring practices while allowing the city to lift a 5-year hiring freeze brought about by budget cuts and court rulings.

    "If we don't know what the test-taker's race is, it's going to be hard to analyze the data to make sure there's no disparate impact," Charney said."

    The case is U.S. v. City of New York, in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of New York, no. 07-2067.

    For the U.S.: Assistant U.S. attorneys Elliot Schachner, Michael Goldberger and David Eskew of the U.S. Attorney's Office, Eastern District of New York; and Eric Bachman, Sharon Seeley, Allan Townsend, Barbara Schwabauer, Jennifer Swedish, Meredith Burrell and Varda Hussain of the U.S. Department of Justice.

    For the Vulcan Society: Richard Levy, Allyson Belovin, Dana Lossia and Robert Stroup of Levy Ratner; Shayana Kadidal, Anjana Samant and Darius Charney of the Center for Constitutional Rights; and Beth Kaswan and Judith Scolnick of Scott and Scott.

    For the city of New York: Georgia Pestana, William Fraenkel, Edward Sample, James Lemonedes, Kami Barker, Kathleen Comfrey and Vivien Ranada of the Office of Corporation Counsel, City of New York Law Department.

    (Reporting by Jessica Dye)

  10. #11490
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    how can they say that it will have no effect on hiring practices. if the list comes out and there arent enough minorities in the top 4 or 5 thousand iam willing to bet there will be an effect on hiring decisions

  11. #11491
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    Quote Originally Posted by myles8683 View Post
    how can they say that it will have no effect on hiring practices. if the list comes out and there arent enough minorities in the top 4 or 5 thousand iam willing to bet there will be an effect on hiring decisions
    You can bet your last dollar on that. As I said before, when the results are the same, there will be no other option but for the judge to impose some type of quota system, and they will have the info on everyones race from top to bottom at their disposal to create that system.

    When all is said and done can the city really afford not to hire a single fireman in four plus years? Unless they grow a set and finally stand up to this bull ****, a court imposed system may be their only option. Unless by that point it is a public safety issue and they can appeal somehow, but the mayor had vowed to appeal the involvement of 6019 and that is yet to be seen.

  12. #11492
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    Tirade removed


    God Bless America...
    Last edited by Keep Running; 07-14-2011 at 02:37 PM. Reason: GOD BLESS AMERICA!

  13. #11493
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    Quote Originally Posted by BK204NYC View Post
    You can bet your last dollar on that. As I said before, when the results are the same, there will be no other option but for the judge to impose some type of quota system, and they will have the info on everyones race from top to bottom at their disposal to create that system.

    When all is said and done can the city really afford not to hire a single fireman in four plus years? Unless they grow a set and finally stand up to this bull ****, a court imposed system may be their only option. Unless by that point it is a public safety issue and they can appeal somehow, but the mayor had vowed to appeal the involvement of 6019 and that is yet to be seen.

    He's too busy dishing $24 million to other cities...

    ATLANTA — In his inauguration speech, Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed pledged to improve his city’s approach to customer service and to help all its residents.

    He was sidetracked by the urgent need to balance the budget and tackle pension reform, but now plans to renew his focus on those original goals with a little help from a colleague up north.

    Reed and mayors in Chicago, Louisville, Ky.; Memphis, Tenn.; and New Orleans will split $24 million in grants to fund programs addressing what they have identified as priorities in their cities, from energy efficiency to handgun violence. New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg announced the grants Thursday as part of the Mayors Project, a new government innovation program at Bloomberg Philanthropies.


    WireImage
    Mayor Bloomberg.
    “Mayors are uniquely positioned to tackle some of our most pressing challenges,” Bloomberg, who is a billionaire, said in a statement. “The Mayors Project will fuel these efforts by spreading effective programs and strategies between cities and helping mayors work together in new ways around solutions.”

    All of the mayors chosen are in their first 18 months of their terms in office. The money will pay the salaries of teams operating outside of city governments, who will help cities carry out and manage their plans with set goals to measure success. The project will also identify groups of cities interested in working together on particular issues to share best practices.

    Each city chose two initiatives and will have three years to tackle them. Reed said Atlanta will use its $3.4 million to create a 311 phone system to improve customer service and to address homelessness and panhandling.

    “After we really faced the challenges of getting our fiscal house in order, I wanted to focus on issues that have to do with the quality of life and how people think and feel and experience the city,” Reed said in a telephone interview.

    Memphis Mayor A.C. Wharton Jr. said his city’s $4.8 million will help attract the intellectual capital he needs to lure investment without angering cash-strapped citizens.

    “There has to be a degree of independence from the fiercely competing demands of municipal government,” he said in a telephone interview. “I’m having trouble keeping parks open. I’m laying off people here. The unions are suing me. It’s hard to reach into that same kitty and say: ‘I want to dream big.’ As good as that may be, that’s just a hard sell.”

    Wharton will tackle two priorities: revive areas of Memphis cut off by highway construction and approach handgun violence as a public health crisis. He said the grant allows him to capitalize on existing momentum in his city.

    “We’ve been on a roll here in Memphis,” Wharton said. “The city is anxious. The people are ready for these big changes. We just haven’t been able to really bring in the talent that we need to envision, develop and actualize these plans and take advantage of the rebirth of spirit that this city is now undergoing.”

    Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel aims to cut the amount of time aspiring entrepreneurs wait in line to start a new business, get a permit or obtain a new license, and will focus on significantly reducing energy use. Louisville Mayor Greg Fischer wants to partner with the city of Lexington to implement a new regional export strategy and improve public accountability. New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu wants to reduce homicides.

  14. #11494
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    Can anyone outline briefly what the main parts of the exam that have been accused of being racist?

    It'd kind of mind boggling to think that a white and black man given equal educations and backgrounds would not receive comparative scores on the exam.. but I am guessing certain questions or whatnot were actually able to create a divide?

  15. #11495
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    I felt like all the questions about the NHL and Wayne Gretzky were probably a little bit bias....

    There's no use beating a dead horse here....everybody took the same exam with the same questions.

  16. #11496
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamjesse View Post
    Can anyone outline briefly what the main parts of the exam that have been accused of being racist?

    It'd kind of mind boggling to think that a white and black man given equal educations and backgrounds would not receive comparative scores on the exam.. but I am guessing certain questions or whatnot were actually able to create a divide?
    from what i remember the vulcans claimed the exam was written at an "unncessarily high" reading level considering the job we are testing for.

  17. #11497
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    Thumbs down Stop the Dept of Social Justice. NOBAMA

    Reading all this BS coming from this so called Judge, whom should not be forcing

    his social agenda down the white mans throat, one has to wonder how soon

    this will all be headed right back down the same old road. Unless the vulcans

    sign off on pursuing a legal challenge too this new test when and if the results

    are the same all over again. Taken many civil service tests over the course of

    thirty-five years and never were we required too fill out the race section of a

    police or fire test. Have the lawyers looked into the legality of this? Stay safe.

  18. #11498
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    All we can do is hope that the city is legally bound by the wording of the document, if it does in fact say that the results of the survey cannot be used for hiring purposes. Although it sounds like they will be used for legal purposes when The Vulcan's don't like the demographics of the top 4000 scores.

  19. #11499
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    According to the Vulcans, the test in 99 & 03 had a "pattern and practice of intentional discrimination against blacks." In which they sought out and sued for tons of money, that of which, by reading the court documents they announced that the money will not go to every Black and Hispanic who took the test, but those that scored around the 20% or higher bracket. Basically stating that the people who perhaps weren't taking the test serious enough, weren't entitled to their relief funds. In some eyes you would think the lowest test scores were getting discriminated against the most, in which should be the first entitled to that free unearned money. Remember garafus in court? "what's the different between someone who scored a 99 and a 80, they will both be great firefighters" Well what's the difference between a 20 and a 10? I know, the guy with the 20 actually bubbled in all C's and gets 10 years backpay. But nonetheless, the 2007 exam 6019 was created to help improve the minority success rate, in which it did. But due to disparate impact ( a certain race didn't do as well as another race ) they deemed the results invalid by analyzing the data of the test takers race. Which in all retrospect held back the more determined and qualified minority test takers from getting hired. Now Charney states "If we don't know what the test-taker's race is, it's going to be hard to analyze the data to make sure there's no disparate impact," Fdny test 2000 deja vu anyone? They won't let hiring start off this new list unless numbers are right, you heard it from the horses mouth. Why would you have to monitor disparate impact on an exam that was monitored by a special master in the first place, that her job was to make sure the test wouldn't be biased. So then it has nothing to do with the exam content? Putting down your race this time around can lead to more long courtroom battles and further delays. Think about it, how can knowing our race be so important to them this time around? If you were burned from 6019 and were labeled a casualty of war, and don't want these fools in your way during round two, then don't fill out the optional information. This way we can let our scores get us called for processing and not our race.

  20. #11500
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    Filing for Exam 2000 has officially begun:

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/co...nt_index.shtml

    Good luck everybody.....we may need it
    Last edited by Bellestoria; 07-15-2011 at 01:20 AM.

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