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Thread: Fdny List 6019

  1. #11801
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    I was reading in the daily news today about ff gies and his family... Very sad story this is the second time I have seen an article about the family...just curious of the youngest son Bobby gies he has said he hopes to be a ff by the end of this year... Just wondering if he is one of us on 6019?? Woul make sense as I saw an article last year and it said the same thing he was waiting for the list to unfreeze


  2. #11802
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33017 View Post
    I was reading in the daily news today about ff gies and his family... Very sad story this is the second time I have seen an article about the family...just curious of the youngest son Bobby gies he has said he hopes to be a ff by the end of this year... Just wondering if he is one of us on 6019?? Woul make sense as I saw an article last year and it said the same thing he was waiting for the list to unfreeze
    yes i believe he was supposed to be that last class with us. he is one of at least 4 or 5(who's parent was killed lod) who would be following in his father/uncle's steps.
    Last edited by hopefully09; 08-14-2011 at 07:49 PM.

  3. #11803
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    If anyone has his contact, I would love to add his story to the video.

  4. #11804
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    Any news from the hearing?????????

  5. #11805
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    On twitter follow @nydnbklynct for up to date courtroom info

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep Running View Post
    On twitter follow @nydnbklynct for up to date courtroom info
    Thanks...already not liking what Im seeing on there

  7. #11807
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    Quote Originally Posted by vekdoggs75 View Post
    Thanks...already not liking what Im seeing on there

    I don't understand what's happening yet. Hopefully someone will have an update later on

  8. #11808
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    Deleting posts and account.
    Last edited by FairHiringFDNY; 08-19-2011 at 05:18 PM.

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  10. #11810
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    Fire Commissioner Salvatore Cassano found himself on the hot seat last week, after Brooklyn Federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis ordered him to take the stand following startling testimony in the FDNY exam trial.

    Dressed in a dark suit and burgundy tie, the Commissioner seemed neither furious nor flustered. And though this case, which has dragged on for years and cost the department 300 new hires, is a sore point for his agency, Mr. Cassano greeted the judge with a cordiality that he reciprocated. Most of the judge’s heated exchanges were saved for city lawyers, who raised numerous objections during questioning.

    Objects to Special Master’s Role

    But those questions put Mr. Cassano on the defensive about everything from recruitment to the applicant review process. The Fire Commisssioner oversees 16,000 employees and a $1.6-billion budget, and repeatedly insisted that any efforts by Judge Garaufis to have his special master, former U.S. Attorney Mary Jo White, oversee the application process would undermine his authority as Commissioner. “I’ve been at the department 42 years,” Mr. Cassano said. “I think I know what’s best for the department.”

    When the FDNY had to rebuild after losing hundreds of firefighters and Emergency Medical Service workers on 9/11, Mr. Cassano testified, part of the strategy included an effort to diversify the force. He cited the record number of minority applicants for the 2007 exam—with nearly 21/2 times more black applicants and twice as many Hispanic applicants as on the previous exam. At 24 days into the registration process for the January 2012 exam, statistics showed that there were 15.2 percent black applicants out of a total of 16,825 candidates. Mr. Cassano said he thought the department was doing a very good job of reaching out to minorities, with more than 6,000 events focused on diversity recruitment during his tenure. “I got personally involved in the [minority] recruitment campaign,” he said.

    He insisted there’s no need for injunctive relief to improve the hiring of blacks and Hispanics at the FDNY, saying that the court should give his efforts a chance to work. “We’ve been very proactive,” he said. “I think the results are showing it.”

    Justice Department Saw Bias

    The hearings are part of a Federal case against the Fire Department, filed by the U.S. Department of Justice and the Vulcan Society, a fraternity of black firefighters, alleging discriminatory hiring practices. The judge has already ruled that the last three FDNY exams, administered in 1999, 2002 and 2007, had a “disparate impact” on minority candidates, and has ordered a hiring freeze until the new exam, developed with input from all sides, is given in January 2012. This set of hearings was to decide a plaintiff request to have Ms. White oversee the FDNY hiring process—a request that the commissioner repeatedly warned would undermine his authority.

    There had been objections from the city to Judge Garaufis’s order that the Commissioner testify, but he overruled them, saying Mr. Cassano was “ultimately responsible” for the hiring process. “The Commissioner should have the opportunity to tell the court the extent to which some of these choices may be workable in his view or not workable in his view,” the Judge said, referring to options plaintiffs have put before the court for a special master, more-solid review guidelines and a written record of the FDNY Personnel Review Board process. Judge Garaufis said he wants to be “extremely careful” in crafting any changes to the department.

    Prior to Mr. Cassano, Donay Queenan took the stand. Ms. Queenan, who has been with the department since 2004, is the Assistant Commissioner of Human Resources for the FDNY and handles hiring and employee issues. She also sits on the PRB, along with several department chiefs, the Executive Fire Officer to the Commissioner, and the First Deputy Officer. She is the only woman on the board, which also includes six white men and one black man. When asked her race, Ms. Queenan responded she was mixed race—black and white.

    Ensuring Bias-Free Screening

    She explained that Firefighters are assigned Peace Officer status, meaning they can issue a warrant or a summons, or enter a property without the owner’s permission. Because of this, candidates, especially those with criminal records, must be carefully considered to ensure their integrity for the job. She said the PRB takes a vote on each candidate brought before it, and keeps a record of the tally.

    As Assistant Commissioner, she altered the review process in several key ways, including removing applicant photos from files to help prevent bias, and creating a single-sheet history of the applicant that gives a more-complete sense of the person. She also testified that the department had attempted to make the files completely anonymous by removing the names, but that consistently redacting an applicant’s name throughout a file proved to be virtually impossible, so this practice was abandoned. Nonetheless, Ms. Queenan said that if there was anything she could change about the process, it would be to remove the candidate names.

    When asked if she thought there should be a special master to oversee hiring practices at the FDNY, Ms. Queenan said no, and denied seeing any discrimination in hiring at the department.

    Chief’s Objectivity Questioned

    In cross-examination by the plaintiffs, she was asked if she was familiar with letters written by Chief of Uniformed Fire Personnel Michael Gala, who also sits on the PRB, in this newspaper prior to his being appointed to that position. She said that she had not read them, nor was she familiar with his views on the case.

    In a series of Letters to the Editor spanning several years while he was a Battalion Chief, Mr. Gala made clear his disdain for the Vulcans’ arguments. In a July 13, 2007 letter, he called Vulcan President John Coombs’s solutions to getting blacks to join the department “shallow.” In a Feb, 15, 2008 letter, his words were far stronger: “If you are a black firefighter in this department and you have an opinion, then speak up, brother. If you are a female firefighter, then you may speak up as well. However, if you are a white male firefighter, keep your bigoted, racist opinions to yourself,” he wrote. “...I am tired of listening to black and female firefighters who have earned their positions in this department or who have risen through the ranks on their own merits and yet condemn the same system that facilitated that rise.”

    Though Ms. Queenan insisted that calls to PRB members don’t influence the vote, this revelation has clearly troubled the judge since testimony the week before about how applicants accused of domestic abuse and serial drunk-driving, among other things, would get support from FDNY officers who knew them. The judge was concerned that there’s no obligation by board members to inform the PRB when someone calls them on behalf of a candidate, and there isn’t any official record that such calls took place.

    Too Much Gray Area?

    And despite Mr. Cassano’s assurances, the repeated mention of there being no set policy for how the PRB conducts its reviews or makes its decisions, and no obligation to report what kind of influence other members of the department try to have on the reviews, raised questions. Plaintiffs also emphasized the lack of an internal appeals process of the board’s decisions, and that candidates had no way to find out why they were rejected by the department. Mr. Cassano said that any written summary of the meetings “may hamper open or frank discussion,” and that any explanations for a rejection would likely sound “generic,” though the judge didn’t seem convinced.

    The Commissioner contended that, though Special Master White has been helpful in the process, involving an outsider in the application process would “infringe upon his responsibility to oversee the agency.” He disagreed with the idea that there were problems with unbridled discretion at the PRB, saying there’s a lot of “open discussion” and that “everyone is treated fairly.”

    Pressed on Paucity of Blacks

    In his cross-examination, plaintiff attorney Richard Levy asked if Mr. Cassano felt that Ms. White was impinging on his authority, to which Mr. Cassano replied that she hadn’t so far. To gauge her effectiveness, he said, he would have to see the results of the exam. Mr. Levy asked if he thought the makeup of the FDNY, which was 3 percent black when the Vulcan complaint was initially filed with the DOJ in 2002, and is roughly the same today, has shown any kind of improvement. Mr. Cassano said that all FDNY officials can do is recruit as many minority candidates as possible. “I think we’ve done a much better job,” he said. “And I think the results speak for themselves.”

    He also cited the record number of minorities that passed the 2007 exam, with 38 percent of those who applied passing, and 33 percent of minority applicants placing among the top 1,000 candidates on the list. When asked about the fact that the NYPD is more than 50 percent black and Hispanic, Mr. Cassano replied, “I run the Fire Department, not the Police Department.”

    Mr. Levy also brought up a 2002 Columbia University study on the Fire Department, saying it was composed primarily of white males with similar backgrounds and values, and that as long as women and minorities perceived the FDNY as a closed environment, it might be a hindrance to their recruitment. Mr. Cassano disagreed with the study’s findings, though he acknowledged that the statement that white applicants are significantly more likely to be recruited by friends and family might be true.

    Wants No Part of Quotas

    He also shied away from any kind of quota when asked by Mr. Levy if he thought it might be helpful to set a goal for recruitment, saying that his goal was to recruit the most-qualified candidates and generally increase diversity in the department. “I think we’ve established the fact that we’ve done very well,” he said.

    Mr. Cassano’s testimony didn’t necessarily assuage the judge’s concerns about bias; he still seemed troubled about influence that’s traded on during a largely ad-hoc and off-the-record review process. The thrust of Mr. Cassano’s argument was that the system is fair because of the integrity of the board members, and that keeping a written record of proceedings would stifle the conversation.

    The judge ended his questioning by showing Mr. Cassano a document from the FDNY website for its 2011 Medal Day, which honors Firefighters for their work. Judge Garaufis pointed out that of the 35 honorees, 18 had a family connection in the FDNY. When asked why he thinks so many family members of firefighters become firefighters themselves, Mr. Cassano said that he believes the value of the job is verbally passed down.

    Judge Garaufis then asked how the medal recipients were determined, and Mr. Cassano explained that they were voted on by senior uniformed managers, none of whom are black. Mr. Cassano said those positions were all filled through promotional exams, not appointments, and that getting diversity in those ranks is hard with only 3 percent black firefighters on the force.

  11. #11811
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    To the Editor:

    Selective pieces of testimony from the Vulcans-vs.-FDNY hearing suggesting advantages were afforded white connected candidates from the Candidate Investigation Division and Personnel Review Board are misleading.

    The true facts of this entire case are not being investigated or reported to the public. Check the background investigation results of all the candidates hired for the one and only class from the 2007 exam. There were many minorities hired in that class. Minority candidates receive as much, if not more, advocacy and consideration.

    All of Deputy Fire Commissioner Douglas White’s fact-based testimony was not reported or considered. Mr. White, an African-American with a long history with the Department of Citywide Administrative Services and FDNY who is familiar with the Vulcans’ concerns and allegations, has never found any racial discrimination in the FDNY’s hiring practices or exams. The truth is, he is fully aware of the FDNY’s extensive efforts, for years, to recruit and help minorities to become firefighters.

    Fact: the last six exams were continuously modified to accommodate minorities. Claims by the Vulcans, comparing the tests to the SATs and complaining of too many firefighting-related questions were ridiculous; now their case states the questions are not job-related enough! The Vulcans were afforded special privileges with the development of the last exam. Their organization ran exclusive test-prep sessions for the last exam. They possessed prior info of the exam that no other candidate attending other prep courses received.

    Check and compare test results of that special, entitled group that attended the Vulcan classes. They’ll be easy to locate. They’re on the job. The Vulcans own a judge, now the press.

    KEVIN McCARTHY, Lieutenant, FDNY (Retired)

  12. #11812
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    To the Editor:

    Reporting in a few of the major daily newspapers on the recent hearings in the Federal lawsuit against New York City and the FDNY highlighted testimony that members of the FDNY would make phone calls on behalf of white candidates who had problems in their background to vouch for them.

    “The blacks don’t have friends in the department to say, ‘I know this kid’,” said Vulcan lawyer Richard Levy as quoted in Newsday.

    I recommend Mr. Levy begin reading THE CHIEF-LEADER, where it was reported that FDNY Deputy Commissioner Douglas White had testified in those same hearings (was Mr. Levy out sick that day?) that the Vulcan Society would often call him for candidates as well. Commissioner White is a very high-ranking civilian member of the FDNY administration and, therefore, a very good friend to be able to call—which the Vulcan Society was not shy about doing.

    Another item very relevant to the hearings that the majors failed to report was a comment by Sherry (also identified as Patricia) Kavaler, a former FDNY official. It was her testimony that led to most of the reporting that implied whites have an unfair advantage when going before the Personnel Review Board (upon which also sits Commissioner White, an African-American). It was left again to the Chief-Leader reporter to report this comment by Ms. Kavaler: “race has never been an issue” in all the years she’d sat on the Board.

    I highlighted the two above statements so that they are not missed again, and I invite any and all in the media (and anybody else) who wants to avail themselves of voluminous facts, figures and other relevant information pertaining to this case to contact us, as we have been paying close attention to this issue for over 20 years. Judge Nicholas Garaufis informed the hearing last Tuesday that he has taken to downloading information himself to research this case; we would hope he not ignore the contribution of relevant, easily verified information we can supply.

    PAUL MANNIX, President, Merit Matters

  13. #11813
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    To the Editor:

    Does the reform that is being sought for the FDNY include having Assistant Commissioner Kavaler label the Irish as a bunch of drunks, fighters and wife-beaters, as was reported in the Daily News? I must have missed the class on allowable stereotypes during my EEO training.

    Before we accept as fact that only white firefighters with criminal records are receiving favors, let’s investigate the whole job to substantiate these charges.

    If the entrance exam consisted of a simple reading-comprehension test along with a challenging physical test, we would not be having these problems. Instead, in the name of diversity, the attempt is being made to reward candidates through litigation rather than preparation.

    FRANK DeSANNA, Firefighter

  14. #11814
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    Friday, August 12, 2011
    Merit Matters PRESS RELEASE - Friday, August 12th, 2011

    Did alleged FDNY cheating benefit minorities?

    Our Press Release yesterday concerned testimony from last week’s hearings related to the lawsuit against NYC and the FDNY. Today’s is also related to those hearings, specifically the claims of widespread cheating.

    It is pretty well documented that the proctors charged with maintaining order at the testing sites for the 2007 FDNY entry test failed miserably at this task - but the responsibility to administer the test properly belonged to the Department of Citywide Administrative Services (DCAS), not the FDNY, and the chaos hurt all candidates, not just minorities. Upon learning of a memo detailing this cheating, among other problems, from FDNY Assistant Commissioner Michele Maglione to Deputy Commissioner Douglas White Judge Nicholas Garaufis stated, “If I...received a memo like this, I’d jump out of my skin.” I eagerly await his response to what I reveal here.

    I have presented well documented concerns regarding the Vulcan Society prep course for the 2007 exam (see attached Timeline) and the possibility that they may have had prior knowledge of what type of questions were going to appear on that test. Their course had the very unique type of subjective questions that appeared on that test while the city’s own course did not. This was the inspiration for what I believe was a very cursory investigation conducted by Commissioner White which found that all was above board.

    I have my doubts about that conclusion and brought those doubts to the NYC Department of Investigation (DOI) in September of 2010, testifying under oath for them in November. In December I was notified they were referring it to DCAS for investigation. After repeated contacts I was told on March 7th, 2011 that the issue was getting attention but that the Judge and the Special Master (Mary Jo White) were in charge. I am confused as to what that meant - will they be conducting an investigation or are they saying that no investigation will be conducted?

    Following the March 7th notification from DCAS I attempted to contact DOI to ascertain their reaction to this without success - I was not even afforded the courtesy of a return phone call. On May 12th I contacted Public Advocate Bill deBlasio’s office. Numerous contacts with that office ended July 20th when I spoke to an official there and asked for a decision in writing as to whether they would advocate for the public on this issue or not. I was promised a phone call back for later that day which never came.

    The above, detailing my unsuccessful attempts to get someone interested in this issue, might make it seem that I should take the hint and drop the issue but I will not, and propose this choice: either investigate the Vulcan Society or investigate me. If my concerns are not reasonable based on the evidence presented, perhaps I should not continue to hold a position of authority in the FDNY.

  15. #11815
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopefully09 View Post
    To the Editor:

    Reporting in a few of the major daily newspapers on the recent hearings in the Federal lawsuit against New York City and the FDNY highlighted testimony that members of the FDNY would make phone calls on behalf of white candidates who had problems in their background to vouch for them.

    “The blacks don’t have friends in the department to say, ‘I know this kid’,” said Vulcan lawyer Richard Levy as quoted in Newsday.

    I recommend Mr. Levy begin reading THE CHIEF-LEADER, where it was reported that FDNY Deputy Commissioner Douglas White had testified in those same hearings (was Mr. Levy out sick that day?) that the Vulcan Society would often call him for candidates as well. Commissioner White is a very high-ranking civilian member of the FDNY administration and, therefore, a very good friend to be able to call—which the Vulcan Society was not shy about doing.

    Another item very relevant to the hearings that the majors failed to report was a comment by Sherry (also identified as Patricia) Kavaler, a former FDNY official. It was her testimony that led to most of the reporting that implied whites have an unfair advantage when going before the Personnel Review Board (upon which also sits Commissioner White, an African-American). It was left again to the Chief-Leader reporter to report this comment by Ms. Kavaler: “race has never been an issue” in all the years she’d sat on the Board.

    I highlighted the two above statements so that they are not missed again, and I invite any and all in the media (and anybody else) who wants to avail themselves of voluminous facts, figures and other relevant information pertaining to this case to contact us, as we have been paying close attention to this issue for over 20 years. Judge Nicholas Garaufis informed the hearing last Tuesday that he has taken to downloading information himself to research this case; we would hope he not ignore the contribution of relevant, easily verified information we can supply.

    PAUL MANNIX, President, Merit Matters
    Hey Hopefully, thanks for posting all the articles bro. It seems like Commissioner Cassano stood up for the dept. to the some degree. And as always, it's great seeing DC Mannix making a fool outta that disgraceful Vulcan Society. Anywho, gotta knock now. Must wake up at 5 am for work. Thanks again for the articles, and a big thanks to all those who attended the hearing today.
    6019- was sitting at 13xx
    2000- now sitting at 18xx

  16. #11816
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    Just looking at the comments regarding the Daily News article, and it's seriously making me sick. Why doesn't the Daily News or Post show these letters or press releases that are posted on here. It's ridiculous how biased the media is in the direction of the Vulcans.

  17. #11817
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    Is there anyway I can get the 6019 t shirt u guys made last year. If I could send a check somewhere???

  18. #11818
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    Chicago FD Set to Hire 111 Black Firefighters
    BY FRAN SPIELMAN - Chicago Sun-Times

    Posted: Wed, 08/17/2011 - 09:11am
    Updated: Wed, 08/17/2011 - 09:15am

    Chicago will hire 111 bypassed black firefighters by March 2012 and pay at least $30 million in damages to about 6,000 others who will never get that chance, under a court order expected to be approved Wednesday by a federal judge.
    Last year, the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously agreed that African-American candidates did not wait too long before filing a lawsuit that accused the city of discriminating against them for the way it handled a 1995 firefighter's entrance exam.
    A federal appeals court affirmed that ruling in May and remanded the case back to the trial court to implement a hiring remedy the city had been stalling.
    Now, both sides have agreed on that plan and how it should be implemented.
    "We're extremely pleased that, after all these years, this long-running legal fight is coming to an end," said plaintiffs' attorney Matt Piers.
    Noting that Chicago taxpayers are liable for an additional $500,000 in back pay for every month the hiring is delayed, Piers said, "The attitude of the Emanuel administration has been to attempt to resolve this as quickly as possible."
    The court order, to be presented to U.S. District Judge Joan Gotschall on Wednesday, calls for the city to begin by sending postcards to all 6,000 bypassed black candidates.
    Those who indicate they are still interested in becoming Chicago firefighters will be entered into a "jobs lottery" to identify 750 candidates who will take a physical abilities test in October and undergo background checks, drug tests and medical exams.
    From that group, the city will select 111 candidates who will enter the fire academy for training by the end of March 2012.
    Would-be firefighters who have moved on to other careers or choose to bypass the jobs lottery for other reasons will receive cash awards of at least $5,000 per person. Chicago taxpayers will also be on the hook for $10 million to $20 million in back pension contributions for those who get jobs. That means the total cost could approach $50 million.
    The Chicago Fire Department's age limit for new hires is 38, but that will not apply to the 111 black firefighters because the discrimination occurred before the cutoff was established.
    "I don't think we'll have a problem coming up with 111 who still want the job and are fully qualified to have it," said Joshua Karsh, another attorney representing the plaintiffs. "Some of these people are older than 38. But better than half the department is older than 38."
    When results from the 1995 entrance exam were disappointing for minorities, the city established a cut-off score of 89 and hired randomly from the top 1,800 "well-qualified" candidates.
    In 2005, a federal judge ruled that the city's decision had the effect of perpetuating the predominantly white status quo, because 78 percent of those '"well-qualified'' candidates were white.
    Nineteen percent of Chicago's 5,000 firefighters and paramedics are African American. The force is 68 percent white and 11 percent Hispanic.
    "By comparison to the Police Department, African Americans are dramatically underrepresented. There will [now] be 111 additional African Americans. That's a very good thing," Karsh said.
    He added, "This is the remedy for violating the law. Hopefully, this will deter the city from ever violating the law in this fashion again."















    http://www.firehouse.com/news/top-he...k-firefighters

  19. #11819
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    More great news....

  20. #11820
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    I just don't understand it. With all the lawsuits that are gaining ground none to me seem to have a solid agruement. The test is racist because some groups didn't score high enough? Come on now, this is bull. Firefighting is a tough job and the ability to retain information and understand concepts in training is very important in everyday life and your survival throughout your career. It just blows my mind that this stuff is holding water in court. What's next lower the bar requirements, make the MCLEPs easier? Lower the standards and people get hurt. Just had to vent, still taking the test and seeing where it leads.

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