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  1. #12021
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    <<< Do you really think that the FDNY will stand by and let this happen>>>

    I hope not. I've been impressed so far that they've resisted quota hiring, etc. I just don't know how much they'll be able to do if the judge imposes it.


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    Federal judge rules FDNY needs greater oversight
    By MITCHEL MADDUX
    Last Updated: 12:03 PM, October 5, 2011
    Posted: 11:41 AM, October 5, 2011



    More Print
    A federal judge ruled today that New York City's fire department needs greater judicial oversight and plans to name a court-appointed monitor to ensure that minority firefighters and FDNY job applicants are treated fairly.

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    Mayor Bloomberg slammed by judge for ignoring years of discrimination in FDNY hiring practices

    BY John Marzulli
    DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

    Wednesday, October 5th 2011, 12:28 PM

    A federal judge Wednesday ordered the creation of an outside monitor for the FDNY with sweeping powers to oversee the selection of entry-level firefighters.

    While issuing the order, Brooklyn Federal Court Judge Nicholas Garaufis slammed Mayor Bloomberg and his team for ignoring evidence of discriminatory hiring practices for years.

    "Though the city's use of discriminatory hiring practices has persisted through numerous changes in city leadership, the evidence adduced in this case gives the court little hope that Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg or any of his senior leadership has any intention of stepping up to the task of ending discrimination in the FDNY," Garaufis wrote.

    Garaufis said only a court-ordered monitor could end decades of discrimination against minorities seeking employment in the Fire Department, which he described as a "stubborn bastion of white male privilege."

    Garaufis harshly criticized Bloomberg for vigorously fighting a U.S. Justice Department suit to end illegal practices.

    The judge said Bloomberg and his senior leadership "chose to ignore" evidence that FDNY testing, recruitment and screening had a disparate impact against minorities

    "Instead of facing hard facts and asking hard questions about the city's abysmal track record of hiring black and Hispanic firefighters, the Bloomberg administration dug in and fought back," Garaufis stated.

    "Today -- four yeas of litigation and two adverse liability rulings later -- the city still doesn't get it."

    The monitor will perform a top-to-bottom assessment of the FDNY's hiring practices, then make recommendations for changes in periodic reports to the judge.

    Garaufis asked the parties to the suit -- city lawyers, the feds and the Vulcan Society of black firefighters -- to submit a list of candidates for the monitor position.

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...#ixzz1ZvamynEH

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    Good god!
    What evidence????
    I already knew he was off his rocker, but he continues to reinforce it.

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    Federal judge rules FDNY needs greater oversight

    By MITCHEL MADDUX and PHILIP MESSING
    Last Updated: 1:14 PM, October 5, 2011
    Posted: 11:41 AM, October 5, 2011




    More http://www.nypost.com/rw/SysConfig/W...icon_print.gif Print
    A federal judge today ruled that broader judicial oversight of New York City's fire department is needed to ensure that minority firefighters and job applicants are fairly treated.

    Brooklyn federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis released his ruling after presiding over a special trial focusing on the issue, concluding that the Vulcan Society -- an organization representing the city's black firefighters -- largely had proven their claims that minorities trying to become firefighters suffer disadvantages that go beyond the applicant testing process.
    In a sweeping and highly-detailed ruling, the judge outlined specific remedies for these problems in a decision that mandates broader oversight of the nation's largest fire department.
    The judge said he envisions the ruling will have far-ranging affect on the FDNY, saying he "contemplates that the court will retain jurisdiction over the remedial phase of this litigation for at least ten years."

    Garaufis said he plans to name a special court-appointed monitor to oversee all aspects of hiring, training, and promotion practices for new firefighters at the FDNY.

    "The City of New York shall, with reasonable diligence, take all steps necessary to eliminate the vestiges of its pattern and practice of discrimination against black firefighter candidates, to remove all barriers to the elimination of these vestiges of discrimination, and to end all policies and practices that have the effect of perpetuating the effects of the City's discrimination against black firefighter candidates," the judge wrote in today's opinion.
    The judge also voiced sharp criticism for Mayor Bloomberg and FDNY leadership, saying that despite overwhelming evidence that the fire department's "practices were discriminatory ... Mayor Bloomberg and the city's last two fire commissioners ... did nothing" to correct the problem.
    The judge's ruling comes just two months after ranking department brass testified at the special bench trial, which focused on how the FDNY can attract more minority applicants to an agency overwhelmingly staffed by white firefighters.

    In a related finding of fact issued last week, the judge deemed that a "formal recruitment program" at the FDNY is necessary and criticized the city for doing too little and devoting too few resources to address the longstanding problem.

    Garaufis addressed these allegations in his opinion, saying that FDNY must "change the perception that the job is available only to white male candidates."

    The judge's opinion draws heavily from the August hearings, which included testimony about several racist incidents at city fire stations.
    Other damaging charges this summer highlighted the dominance of "old boy network" connections in FDNY's hiring practices, where friends, relatives, or neighbors were favored over minority applicants without inside Fire Department connections.

    The judge's order today hits directly at the center of this issue and orders the FDNY's Personnel Review Board "to adopt policies and procedures regarding the participation of [its] members who have a potential conflict of interest with respect to any candidate under review."
    The department's Personnel Review Board is responsible for hiring firefighters, but testimony at the August bench trial revealed that panel members sometimes recommend candidates they personally know - raising questions about potential conflicts of interest and fairness.

    City officials immediately announced that they will appeal the ruling.

    "We strongly disagree with the judge's opinion and conclusions, and are reviewing the draft remedial order...and will appeal as soon as the law allows," said Michael A. Cardozo, New York City's Corporation Counsel.

    The judge's opinion is yet another development stemming from a 2007 lawsuit filed against the fire department by the US Justice Department, with the aim of forcing the city to hire more minorities at an agency where white men make up 93 percent of the 11,000 firefighters in its ranks.
    Garaufis has ruled previously that the FDNY's entrance test unfairly discriminates against black and Hispanic applicants.
    Mary Jo White, the former Manhattan US attorney appointed as a special master to create a new FDNY entrance exam, said in a separate report on Friday that her efforts to create an entrance test that's more fair are proceeding on schedule for early 2012.

    City officials have pointed out that their efforts to redress the imbalance in the FDNY's ranks has been paying off, as they focused recruitment efforts on New York's neighborhoods with diverse populations.
    Roughly half of the applicants who want to take the city's upcoming firefighter exam are minorities, city officials say, and the judge has acknowledged that such numbers are record-breaking.


    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/f...#ixzz1ZvfZsANX
    Last edited by GIMMEFIRE600; 10-05-2011 at 01:28 PM.

  6. #12026
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    Federal judge rules FDNY needs greater oversight

    By MITCHEL MADDUX and PHILIP MESSING
    Last Updated: 1:14 PM, October 5, 2011
    Posted: 11:41 AM, October 5, 2011




    More http://www.nypost.com/rw/SysConfig/W...icon_print.gif Print








    City officials immediately announced that they will appeal the ruling.

    "We strongly disagree with the judge's opinion and conclusions, and are reviewing the draft remedial order...and will appeal as soon as the law allows," said Michael A. Cardozo, New York City's Corporation Counsel.

    The judge's opinion is yet another development stemming from a 2007 lawsuit filed against the fire department by the US Justice Department, with the aim of forcing the city to hire more minorities at an agency where white men make up 93 percent of the 11,000 firefighters in its ranks.
    Garaufis has ruled previously that the FDNY's entrance test unfairly discriminates against black and Hispanic applicants.
    Mary Jo White, the former Manhattan US attorney appointed as a special master to create a new FDNY entrance exam, said in a separate report on Friday that her efforts to create an entrance test that's more fair are proceeding on schedule for early 2012.

    City officials have pointed out that their efforts to redress the imbalance in the FDNY's ranks has been paying off, as they focused recruitment efforts on New York's neighborhoods with diverse populations.
    Roughly half of the applicants who want to take the city's upcoming firefighter exam are minorities, city officials say, and the judge has acknowledged that such numbers are record-breaking.


    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/f...#ixzz1ZvfZsANX

    Nonsense....I was told right here just days ago that the city wouldnt appeal.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  7. #12027
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    If I wasnt here living next to this, watching it from start to finish, and someone else told me about it Id swear it was some bad hollywood comedy.

    Starring the wu tang clan's ODB as JC, Howard Stern's Beetlgeuse as PW, and in the role of a lifetime, Paulie Shore in a comeback performance as that zany federal judge, NG...

    Two wiley members on the payroll of the NYC Fire Dept find their career clocks ticking away with nothing more than couch dents to show for their life's work, hatch a plan to create a legacy. Theyll need some help though, and theyll find it in a judge from another planet. Courtroom hijinks abound, as a path to laziness, apathy, and mediocrity is hacked through a fabric woven of 200 years of merit, hard work, and tradition. Hilarious!

    Straight to video though...
    To Persist is to Conquer.

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    Court to keep tabs on New York City fire department hiring

    10/5/2011 COMMENTS (0)

    (Adds comment from city)

    NEW YORK, Oct 5 (Reuters) - A federal judge in Brooklyn on Wednesday ordered a special monitor to keep tabs on the New York City Fire Department's hiring and recruitment processes for the next 10 years, as the city attempts to correct discriminatory practices that have put black and Hispanic candidates at a disadvantage.

    U.S. District Judge Nicholas Garaufis, who last week identified "areas of concern and room for improvement" in how the city recruits minority candidates for its fire department, followed up Wednesday with a broad but open-ended draft remedial order that calls on New York City to make a top-to-bottom reassessment of how it handles racial issues in how it recruits, hires and employs black and Hispanic firefighters.

    A fairness hearing on the remedial order has been tentatively set for Oct. 17.

    The proposed ruling sets a series of goals for the city without prescribing specific hiring quotas, allowing the city to consult with experts in order to put together a comprehensive and workable plan under court supervision, Garaufis wrote.

    The order "simply compels the city to take a hard look at its policies and practices, consider the evidence and decide what actions should be taken," Garaufis wrote. "The court believes that the process set out in the draft remedial order preserves the city's primary responsibility for desegregating the FDNY."

    Specifically, the order calls on the city to put together a plan to keep candidates from dropping out during the long recruitment and hiring process, and to perform a "long term top-to-bottom reassessment" of the firefighter hiring process.

    COURT-APPOINTED MONITOR

    The city would also have to set long-term recruitment goals to boost the number of minority candidates who take the firefighter examination, and correct its post-exam screening process to keep black and Hispanic candidates from being unfairly screened out over issues like arrest records.

    Garaufis proposed setting a court-appointed monitor to keep tabs on the city's progress in setting and achieving its goals. The court would retain jurisdiction over the city's compliance and, within 10 years, hold another bench trial to determine whether the city had made good on efforts to equalize the hiring process.

    The plaintiffs, led by the Vulcan Society, a black firefighter fraternal organization, had asked the judge to impose strict goals and hold the city accountable for its progress in addressing racial bias.

    An attorney for the Vulcan Society, Darius Charney of the Center for Constitutional Rights, said the ruling made clear that the city would have to go farther than just rewriting its firefighter exam to address nearly 40 years of discrimination.

    "The key is, is the city in fact going to come up with the best practices and changes that the court is leaving in the city's discretion to come up with?" Charney said.

    Corporation counsel Michael Cardozo said in a statement, "We strongly disagree with the judge's opinion and conclusions, and are reviewing the draft remedial order. We will respond on Oct. 17, as directed by the court, and will appeal as soon as the law allows."

    During a three-part bench trial in August, attorneys for the city argued for less stringent oversight, saying that they had already begun to make improvements without court interference.

  9. #12029
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkylinePCG View Post
    If I wasnt here living next to this, watching it from start to finish, and someone else told me about it Id swear it was some bad hollywood comedy.

    Starring the wu tang clan's ODB as JC, Howard Stern's Beetlgeuse as PW, and in the role of a lifetime, Paulie Shore in a comeback performance as that zany federal judge, NG...

    Two wiley members on the payroll of the NYC Fire Dept find their career clocks ticking away with nothing more than couch dents to show for their life's work, hatch a plan to create a legacy. Theyll need some help though, and theyll find it in a judge from another planet. Courtroom hijinks abound, as a path to laziness, apathy, and mediocrity is hacked through a fabric woven of 200 years of merit, hard work, and tradition. Hilarious!

    Straight to video though...
    Speaking of Wu Tang - "The Saga continues..."

  10. #12030
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    IL PERMANENT INJUNCTION
    A. GENERAL TERMS
    13. The City of New York shall not use, in any way, Firefighter Exam 7029, Firefighter
    Exam 2043, or Firefighter Exam 6019 as part of any process for the selection of entry-level
    firefighters.

    14. The City ofNew York shall not use as part of any entry-level firefighter selection
    process, any examination that in any way results in a disparate impact upon black or Hispanic
    applicants and is not job related for the position of entry-level firefighter and consistent with
    business necessity, or does not otherwise meet the requirements of federal, state, and City EEO
    laws.
    15. The City of New York shall not take any step in any process for the selection of entry-
    level firefighters, or use any examination as part of such process, without first obtaining the
    approval of the Court Monitor (the "Monitor") through the processes specified by the Monitor.

    16. The City of New York shall not retaliate against or in any way adversely affect the terms or conditions of employment of any person because he or she has complained of discrimination against blacks or Hispanics on the basis of their race or national origin in the selection and hiring of entry-level firefighters, or has participated in the investigation or litigation of any claim or allegation of such discrimination, or has sought or obtained relief from the court in this case.

    Paragraph 13 of this Order supersedes and replaces the court's order enjoining the City of New York from hiring firefighters using Exam 6019 except in compliance with the authorized hiring options identified by the court in its Exam 6019 Hiring Options Order of September 13, 2010. (See Exam 6019 Hiring Options Order (Docket
    Entry# 526); Exam 6019lnjunction (Docket Entry# 569) at 19-20.) As provided in Paragraph 13, this Order revokes the City of New York's permission to use Exam 6019 to hire entry-level firefighters using one of the five options specified in the court's earlier orders.

  11. #12031
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    IL PERMANENT INJUNCTION
    A. GENERAL TERMS
    13. The City of New York shall not use, in any way, Firefighter Exam 7029, Firefighter
    Exam 2043, or Firefighter Exam 6019 as part of any process for the selection of entry-level
    firefighters.

    14. The City ofNew York shall not use as part of any entry-level firefighter selection
    process, any examination that in any way results in a disparate impact upon black or Hispanic
    applicants and is not job related for the position of entry-level firefighter and consistent with
    business necessity, or does not otherwise meet the requirements of federal, state, and City EEO
    laws.
    15. The City of New York shall not take any step in any process for the selection of entry-
    level firefighters, or use any examination as part of such process, without first obtaining the
    approval of the Court Monitor (the "Monitor") through the processes specified by the Monitor.

    16. The City of New York shall not retaliate against or in any way adversely affect the terms or conditions of employment of any person because he or she has complained of discrimination against blacks or Hispanics on the basis of their race or national origin in the selection and hiring of entry-level firefighters, or has participated in the investigation or litigation of any claim or allegation of such discrimination, or has sought or obtained relief from the court in this case.

    Paragraph 13 of this Order supersedes and replaces the court's order enjoining the City of New York from hiring firefighters using Exam 6019 except in compliance with the authorized hiring options identified by the court in its Exam 6019 Hiring Options Order of September 13, 2010. (See Exam 6019 Hiring Options Order (Docket
    Entry# 526); Exam 6019lnjunction (Docket Entry# 569) at 19-20.) As provided in Paragraph 13, this Order revokes the City of New York's permission to use Exam 6019 to hire entry-level firefighters using one of the five options specified in the court's earlier orders.
    well thats sweet
    I should have cleaned up the chili.....why didn't I clean up the chili!!!!!!

  12. #12032
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    IL PERMANENT INJUNCTION
    A. GENERAL TERMS
    13. The City of New York shall not use, in any way, Firefighter Exam 7029, Firefighter
    Exam 2043, or Firefighter Exam 6019 as part of any process for the selection of entry-level
    firefighters.

    14. The City ofNew York shall not use as part of any entry-level firefighter selection
    process, any examination that in any way results in a disparate impact upon black or Hispanic
    applicants and is not job related for the position of entry-level firefighter and consistent with
    business necessity, or does not otherwise meet the requirements of federal, state, and City EEO
    laws.
    15. The City of New York shall not take any step in any process for the selection of entry-
    level firefighters, or use any examination as part of such process, without first obtaining the
    approval of the Court Monitor (the "Monitor") through the processes specified by the Monitor.

    16. The City of New York shall not retaliate against or in any way adversely affect the terms or conditions of employment of any person because he or she has complained of discrimination against blacks or Hispanics on the basis of their race or national origin in the selection and hiring of entry-level firefighters, or has participated in the investigation or litigation of any claim or allegation of such discrimination, or has sought or obtained relief from the court in this case.

    Paragraph 13 of this Order supersedes and replaces the court's order enjoining the City of New York from hiring firefighters using Exam 6019 except in compliance with the authorized hiring options identified by the court in its Exam 6019 Hiring Options Order of September 13, 2010. (See Exam 6019 Hiring Options Order (Docket
    Entry# 526); Exam 6019lnjunction (Docket Entry# 569) at 19-20.) As provided in Paragraph 13, this Order revokes the City of New York's permission to use Exam 6019 to hire entry-level firefighters using one of the five options specified in the court's earlier orders.
    How recent is this court document? I have all the documents from late February early march and i don't remember seeing this particular one.

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    well im glad im taking the sgts test next week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0311ico View Post
    How recent is this court document? I have all the documents from late February early march and i don't remember seeing this particular one.
    These are the most recent docs from Friday and today. That page was from a doc issued today. Garaufis also outlines a laundry list of things the city has to do to comply with his order and to say the least it looks as if its going to be extremely time consuming. The five options look really appealing now don't they.

    http://www.newyorklawjournal.com/Pub...ing&slreturn=1

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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    The five options look really appealing now don't they.

    http://www.newyorklawjournal.com/Pub...ing&slreturn=1

    Oh look at gimmefire, trying to do the "I told you so". You'll never let it go......

    No. They didn't look good then, nor in hindsight.

    Because it may be the lesser of two evils doesn't make it appealing. No matter what happened then or now, a man of merit (and this dept) should never accept any of these options. That is what makes this dept great and has separated it from all the others that have been tainted by quotas and the like.

    We know this Judge and that this would all eventually escalate. This is not a surprise and doesn't make the 5 options more appealing now. Why? Because of the same key principle: Merit. Merit is merit. It doesn't change with the circumstances of the case, how bad you've suffered in this debacle (we know, you've told us many times over the years). No matter how bad you want the job, you shouldn't sacrifice merit. Have the dignity to know you didn't give in, even if the worst should happen. Have some pride. That's what makes this dept great. It doesn't need IGM. You speak volumes regarding your character.

    Fight to the death rather than give in. Doing the right thing doesn't change with the circumstances. Giving in now for your own benefit would create a precedent and spell far worse for future generations. History would not look kindly at you selling future brothers down the river.
    Last edited by tny1771; 10-05-2011 at 10:27 PM.

  16. #12036
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    Quote Originally Posted by tny1771 View Post
    Oh look at gimmefire, trying to do the "I told you so". You'll never let it go......

    No. They didn't look good then, nor in hindsight.

    Because it may be the lesser of two evils doesn't make it appealing. No matter what happened then or now, a man of merit (and this dept) should never accept any of these options. That is what makes this dept great and has separated it from all the others that have been tainted by quotas and the like.

    We know this Judge and that this would all eventually escalate. This is not a surprise and doesn't make the 5 options more appealing now. Why? Because of the same key principle: Merit. Merit is merit. It doesn't change with the circumstances of the case, how bad you have suffered (we know, you've told us many times over the years). No matter how bad you want the job, you shouldn't sacrifice merit. Have the dignity to know you didn't give in, even if the worst should happen. Have some pride. That's what makes this dept. great. It doesn't need IGM. You speak volumes regarding your character.
    FROM GARAUFIS ORDER TODAY:

    "The clear evidence of disparate impact that Mayor Bloomberg and his senior leadership chose to ignore was obvious to anyone else who looked. Instead of facing hard facts and asking hard questions about the City's abysmal track record of hiring black and Hispanic firefighters, the Bloomberg Administration dug in and fought back. The only reason that the court today
    considers how to end the City's discriminatory hiring practices and eliminate their lasting effects is that a coalition of black New York City firefighters and President George W. Bush's attorney general, Alberto Gonzalez, decided their only recourse was to sue the City of New York to make
    it stop.

    Today-four years of litigation and two adverse liability rulings later-the City still doesn't get it."

    And neither do you! The DOJ/ FEDERAL GOVERNMENT felt obligated enough and realized that they had a strong enough case to sue. Their case was so strong they didn't even have to go to trial! FACT remains, the city has LOST and the more they fight this the worse off they are. If you can't admit that there is something wrong with the most desired civil service job, arguably in the entire country, being 93% white(and most of the minority candidates on the job now have come on via the promo exam) then you just don't get it. This has nothing to do with an exam. Nothing.

    Going after the exam was the easiest way to ensure victory. The most telling part of this case occurred in August with the testimony from former assistant commissioner for FDNY personnel Patricia Kavaler. FACT is whites make it on the job much easier than minorities for a multitude of reasons.

    Check out the daily news today, a white guy can get hired while hes selling coke for the mob, and breaking peoples legs. A white guy with four misdemeanors and a history of cocaine use, gets hired because his Daddy puts in a good word. He is hired with a stip, fails a drug test and still keeps his job, only to finally get fired for other stupidity. White guys being hired with felonies! Felonies! Read the court docs, a white guy with a domestic violence arrest involving a weapon, gets the go-ahead. But a Hispanic with a domestic violence arrest in which no weapon was used and his wife didn't want to press any charges was denied the job. Is that what you call merit based hiring?

    Thats what I call nepotism and resisting integration. At this point I realize the department is much bigger than I am and this process(of ensuring fairness not issuing handouts), as much as it frustrates me, is necessary for future generations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tny1771 View Post
    Oh look at gimmefire, trying to do the "I told you so". You'll never let it go......

    No. They didn't look good then, nor in hindsight.

    Because it may be the lesser of two evils doesn't make it appealing. No matter what happened then or now, a man of merit (and this dept) should never accept any of these options. That is what makes this dept great and has separated it from all the others that have been tainted by quotas and the like.

    We know this Judge and that this would all eventually escalate. This is not a surprise and doesn't make the 5 options more appealing now. Why? Because of the same key principle: Merit. Merit is merit. It doesn't change with the circumstances of the case, how bad you've suffered in this debacle (we know, you've told us many times over the years). No matter how bad you want the job, you shouldn't sacrifice merit. Have the dignity to know you didn't give in, even if the worst should happen. Have some pride. That's what makes this dept great. It doesn't need IGM. You speak volumes regarding your character.

    Fight to the death rather than give in. Doing the right thing doesn't change with the circumstances. Giving in now for your own benefit would create a precedent and spell far worse for future generations. History would not look kindly at you selling future brothers down the river.
    What a post! Nicely put.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    FROM GARAUFIS ORDER TODAY:

    "The clear evidence of disparate impact that Mayor Bloomberg and his senior leadership chose to ignore was obvious to anyone else who looked. Instead of facing hard facts and asking hard questions about the City's abysmal track record of hiring black and Hispanic firefighters, the Bloomberg Administration dug in and fought back. The only reason that the court today
    considers how to end the City's discriminatory hiring practices and eliminate their lasting effects is that a coalition of black New York City firefighters and President George W. Bush's attorney general, Alberto Gonzalez, decided their only recourse was to sue the City of New York to make
    it stop.

    Today-four years of litigation and two adverse liability rulings later-the City still doesn't get it."

    And neither do you! The DOJ/ FEDERAL GOVERNMENT felt obligated enough and realized that they had a strong enough case to sue. Their case was so strong they didn't even have to go to trial! FACT remains, the city has LOST and the more they fight this the worse off they are. If you can't admit that there is something wrong with the most desired civil service job, arguably in the entire country, being 93% white(and most of the minority candidates on the job now have come on via the promo exam) then you just don't get it. This has nothing to do with an exam. Nothing.

    Going after the exam was the easiest way to ensure victory. The most telling part of this case occurred in August with the testimony from former assistant commissioner for FDNY personnel Patricia Kavaler. FACT is whites make it on the job much easier than minorities for a multitude of reasons.

    Check out the daily news today, a white guy can get hired while hes selling coke for the mob, and breaking peoples legs. A white guy with four misdemeanors and a history of cocaine use, gets hired because his Daddy puts in a good word. He is hired with a stip, fails a drug test and still keeps his job, only to finally get fired for other stupidity. White guys being hired with felonies! Felonies! Read the court docs, a white guy with a domestic violence arrest involving a weapon, gets the go-ahead. But a Hispanic with a domestic violence arrest in which no weapon was used and his wife didn't want to press any charges was denied the job. Is that what you call merit based hiring?

    Thats what I call nepotism and resisting integration. At this point I realize the department is much bigger than I am and this process(of ensuring fairness not issuing handouts), as much as it frustrates me, is necessary for future generations.

    You still can't justify it. Regardless of whatever alleged injustices you speak of; Quota's are never the answer!

    You're proposing fighting bad with bad.
    Last edited by tny1771; 10-05-2011 at 11:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tny1771 View Post
    You still can't justify it. Regardless of whatever alleged injustices you speak of; Quota's are never the answer!

    You're proposing fighting bad with bad.
    Can you please explain to me where I said anything about quotas? I want the process to be a fair one. I'm not worried about any exam, written or physical. My issue is seeing people I know being denied a job for speeding tickets, when a white guy can come strolling in to the academy with more than one prior.

  20. #12040
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    Can you please explain to me where I said anything about quotas?
    That's what the five options boiled down to in plain english.

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