Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 610 of 618 FirstFirst ... 110510560600607608609610611612613 ... LastLast
Results 12,181 to 12,200 of 12347
Like Tree74Likes

Thread: Fdny List 6019

  1. #12181
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    64

    Default

    Take this rumor for what it is. I was at a city prep course, and a instructor said that there will be a system to grab lower scoring candidates (grades of 80-70) roughly and sticking them in the pot with the top scoreres. Resembles one of the five proposals the city was offered for 6019. In short, people will be skipped for lower scoring minorities ( I can only assume ) hense the reason being mandated to fill out our race during our application. The courts were making fancy names to cover up the word "quota" like applicant pool etc. Bottom line is merrit based hiring would be out and quotas will be in. I wonder if anyone would have a problem with being skipped because of your race and not your test grade? All I can suggest is instead of waiting till after our grades are in and this system is enforced by judge garaufis, we should alert as many applicants of their intentions now so we could start writing to our council members voicing our say on the matter. "Laying back and letting the chips fall where they may" as garaufis always liked to say, may be our biggest regret. Especially knowing he still has his biased hands in the pot. I wonder if his nephew would mind?


  2. #12182
    MembersZone Subscriber ffbam24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,482

    Default

    I don't know where/why that was said. The proctors were not instructed in any way about how this will be graded and not at any liberty to discuss it.

  3. #12183
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    64

    Default

    It wasn't said during the course, it was prior to, when waiting for the auditorium to become available to us. Again this was a rumor he said he heard from an internal source high up. Just sharing what I heard.

  4. #12184
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Is anyone going to the Vulcan test prep tonight in Queens at 7pm or does anyone know if it is still scheduled for tonight or are the Vulcan's cancelling it again? I plan on going tonight and was hoping that there is still a class, Thanks.

  5. #12185
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Has anyone taken the Vulcan's Session B course? I was unable to attend due to catching the cold, if you have the handout please send me a PM so we can work something out. I will be posting the Vulcan Lesson Plan A tonight once my scanner arrives.

  6. #12186
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    64

    Default

    Letter to the Editor
    FDNY Point-Shaving Plan

    JOHN SULLIVAN
    To the Editor:
    A fair grading practice for FDNY tests: because there are 30,000 candidates for the FDNY exam, there are three million grade points to be distributed. That is, if every candidate were to achieve a grade of 100, three million points would be awarded.
    Now it isn’t really fair that a few candidates at the top achieve so many points and the bottom students achieve so little. After all they do come into the test from such diverse and unequal backgrounds; some have more natural ability, others have stronger supportive families, others just have more determination and a stronger work ethic.
    These variables give the successful candidates an unfair advantage over the others. Obviously the laws of genetics are unfair. It also isn’t fair that some children benefit from the success of their parents while others are hindered by theirs. I do not know the myriad causes of why some work harder than others, but certainly the outcome of that reality is also unjust.
    I see now that we need to be more than just teachers; we need to be the stewards, the regulators of fair play. Therefore we will tax the points of those with the higher grades and redistribute them to candidates with lower grades. After all, the candidates with the higher grades can more easily afford to “give up” some points.
    Let us also remember that the candidates with the higher grades benefit most from the classroom experience, because they learn the most. They should pay their fair share. The loss of points may cost them placement on the top of the list, but a little disappointment can be educational too. Meanwhile the candidates with the lower grades will be able to go to top of the list as they would not have been able to under the old system, not to mention the boost in self-esteem they will feel.
    We will employ a progressive “point-shaving” tax system. From those with an average above 95, we will deduct 5 points; we’ll take 3 points away from those above 90 and 2 points away from those over 83. To those below 83 we will distribute the points, also on a sliding scale.
    While the “first will not be last and the last will not be first,” we can get close. Using this system we can even out the playing field to a considerable degree. Another reason why this is a just course of action is because the educational system has been biased all along in favor of the high-grade achievers. It is they who receive FDNY placements.
    Yes, you heard correctly, those who need the money least, because they will probably be successful without the job, get the most money. I ask you: is that fair? Sarcastically submitted.

    JOHN SULLIVAN, Lieutenant, FDNY
    *

  7. #12187
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    792

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by joeybatts View Post
    Letter to the Editor
    FDNY Point-Shaving Plan

    JOHN SULLIVAN
    To the Editor:
    A fair grading practice for FDNY tests: because there are 30,000 candidates for the FDNY exam, there are three million grade points to be distributed. That is, if every candidate were to achieve a grade of 100, three million points would be awarded.
    Now it isn’t really fair that a few candidates at the top achieve so many points and the bottom students achieve so little. After all they do come into the test from such diverse and unequal backgrounds; some have more natural ability, others have stronger supportive families, others just have more determination and a stronger work ethic.
    These variables give the successful candidates an unfair advantage over the others. Obviously the laws of genetics are unfair. It also isn’t fair that some children benefit from the success of their parents while others are hindered by theirs. I do not know the myriad causes of why some work harder than others, but certainly the outcome of that reality is also unjust.
    I see now that we need to be more than just teachers; we need to be the stewards, the regulators of fair play. Therefore we will tax the points of those with the higher grades and redistribute them to candidates with lower grades. After all, the candidates with the higher grades can more easily afford to “give up” some points.
    Let us also remember that the candidates with the higher grades benefit most from the classroom experience, because they learn the most. They should pay their fair share. The loss of points may cost them placement on the top of the list, but a little disappointment can be educational too. Meanwhile the candidates with the lower grades will be able to go to top of the list as they would not have been able to under the old system, not to mention the boost in self-esteem they will feel.
    We will employ a progressive “point-shaving” tax system. From those with an average above 95, we will deduct 5 points; we’ll take 3 points away from those above 90 and 2 points away from those over 83. To those below 83 we will distribute the points, also on a sliding scale.
    While the “first will not be last and the last will not be first,” we can get close. Using this system we can even out the playing field to a considerable degree. Another reason why this is a just course of action is because the educational system has been biased all along in favor of the high-grade achievers. It is they who receive FDNY placements.
    Yes, you heard correctly, those who need the money least, because they will probably be successful without the job, get the most money. I ask you: is that fair? Sarcastically submitted.

    JOHN SULLIVAN, Lieutenant, FDNY
    *
    Where you see this?

  8. #12188
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    64

    Default

    Chief paper

  9. #12189
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    851

    Default

    It indeed seems like that article would be written these days, yet he mentions "30,000 applicants". Was that from years ago?

  10. #12190
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    186

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by joeybatts View Post
    Letter to the Editor
    FDNY Point-Shaving Plan

    JOHN SULLIVAN
    To the Editor:
    A fair grading practice for FDNY tests: because there are 30,000 candidates for the FDNY exam, there are three million grade points to be distributed. That is, if every candidate were to achieve a grade of 100, three million points would be awarded.
    Now it isn’t really fair that a few candidates at the top achieve so many points and the bottom students achieve so little. After all they do come into the test from such diverse and unequal backgrounds; some have more natural ability, others have stronger supportive families, others just have more determination and a stronger work ethic.
    These variables give the successful candidates an unfair advantage over the others. Obviously the laws of genetics are unfair. It also isn’t fair that some children benefit from the success of their parents while others are hindered by theirs. I do not know the myriad causes of why some work harder than others, but certainly the outcome of that reality is also unjust.
    I see now that we need to be more than just teachers; we need to be the stewards, the regulators of fair play. Therefore we will tax the points of those with the higher grades and redistribute them to candidates with lower grades. After all, the candidates with the higher grades can more easily afford to “give up” some points.
    Let us also remember that the candidates with the higher grades benefit most from the classroom experience, because they learn the most. They should pay their fair share. The loss of points may cost them placement on the top of the list, but a little disappointment can be educational too. Meanwhile the candidates with the lower grades will be able to go to top of the list as they would not have been able to under the old system, not to mention the boost in self-esteem they will feel.
    We will employ a progressive “point-shaving” tax system. From those with an average above 95, we will deduct 5 points; we’ll take 3 points away from those above 90 and 2 points away from those over 83. To those below 83 we will distribute the points, also on a sliding scale.
    While the “first will not be last and the last will not be first,” we can get close. Using this system we can even out the playing field to a considerable degree. Another reason why this is a just course of action is because the educational system has been biased all along in favor of the high-grade achievers. It is they who receive FDNY placements.
    Yes, you heard correctly, those who need the money least, because they will probably be successful without the job, get the most money. I ask you: is that fair? Sarcastically submitted.

    JOHN SULLIVAN, Lieutenant, FDNY
    *
    whoops, sarcastically submitted, hopefully not to many caught my error...lol
    Last edited by MerritMatters; 03-06-2012 at 09:03 PM.

  11. #12191
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    851

    Default

    Does anyone have a link to the '02 test (or was it the '99?) that the ny times made available on their site a while back? I can't seem to find it.


    Edit: Nevermind, found it...
    Last edited by roadrunner09; 03-07-2012 at 12:11 PM.

  12. #12192
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    538

    Default

    When are the vulcan prep classes for queens this week?

  13. #12193
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Center of the Universe
    Posts
    372
    To Persist is to Conquer.

  14. #12194
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Anyone see this article on CNN.com?

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/08/us/new...html?hpt=hp_c1

  15. #12195
    Forum Member bxfdnycandidate11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bravest2009 View Post
    Anyone see this article on CNN.com?

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/08/us/new...html?hpt=hp_c1
    yea i saw the article too. The story also was on ch.4 at 11...i guess the only good news is that finally the court case has made national headlines via the cnn.com article...if you read through the comment section on the cnn article though, its obvious that many people across the country believe that this outcome to the case is obviously wrong (as anyone with rational thought should). ughh, so does anyone have word on the judges selected for the appeals yet?

  16. #12196
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    64

    Default

    "Paul Washington, past president of the Vulcan Society, said: "The Vulcan Society has been fighting for almost 75 years to open the doors of the Fire Department to black firefighters. This is a great victory for those who have been excluded from serving our city because of their race. We hope the FDNY moves quickly to welcome the 293 Black and Latino applicants who are entitled to be hired, and we look forward to serving with them."

    Will this happen if appeals rule in favor of the vulcans? Or is this actually happening?

  17. #12197
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    792

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by joeybatts View Post
    "Paul Washington, past president of the Vulcan Society, said: "The Vulcan Society has been fighting for almost 75 years to open the doors of the Fire Department to black firefighters. This is a great victory for those who have been excluded from serving our city because of their race. We hope the FDNY moves quickly to welcome the 293 Black and Latino applicants who are entitled to be hired, and we look forward to serving with them."

    Will this happen if appeals rule in favor of the vulcans? Or is this actually happening?
    It will be a damn shame if that really happens.....Everyone realizes the minimum test score for those ENTITLED to penalties was 25!!!????

  18. #12198
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    64

    Default

    Seven applicants who failed the FDNY written exams that a federal judge tossed out as discriminatory are not entitled to damages because their grade was less than 25.*

    (they are really going to exclude 7 people out of 7,100?)

    The Vulcan Society of black firefighters, the city and U.S. Justice Department lawyers all agree that a score of 25 is too abysmally low to merit compensation.*

    (25 is too low? What about the guys who got a 30? Anything under a 65 is just the difference between who got luckier at filling random bubbles on the test than the next guy. Merit? The vulcans don't understand what they word means. )

    “Such a candidate would not have succeeded due to his or her lack of effort and therefore should not be eligible for relief,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Elliot Schachner wrote in papers filed Tuesday in Brooklyn Federal Court.*

    (so these guys show a lack of effort to be eligible for compensation, how about eligible for a position of FF? Since when do they see a reason to exclude the people who don't show effort to get this job? Since when do they feel a test should determine a persons capabilities?

    "Federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis later ruled that minority candidates who were not hired and those whose hiring was delayed as a result of the test scores may be entitled to damages."

    (are they referring to 6019 candidates?)

  19. #12199
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    792

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by joeybatts View Post
    Seven applicants who failed the FDNY written exams that a federal judge tossed out as discriminatory are not entitled to damages because their grade was less than 25.*

    (they are really going to exclude 7 people out of 7,100?)

    The Vulcan Society of black firefighters, the city and U.S. Justice Department lawyers all agree that a score of 25 is too abysmally low to merit compensation.*

    (25 is too low? What about the guys who got a 30? Anything under a 65 is just the difference between who got luckier at filling random bubbles on the test than the next guy. Merit? The vulcans don't understand what they word means. )

    “Such a candidate would not have succeeded due to his or her lack of effort and therefore should not be eligible for relief,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Elliot Schachner wrote in papers filed Tuesday in Brooklyn Federal Court.*

    (so these guys show a lack of effort to be eligible for compensation, how about eligible for a position of FF? Since when do they see a reason to exclude the people who don't show effort to get this job? Since when do they feel a test should determine a persons capabilities?

    "Federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis later ruled that minority candidates who were not hired and those whose hiring was delayed as a result of the test scores may be entitled to damages."

    (are they referring to 6019 candidates?)
    Na almost positive they're referring to the '99 and '02 exams

  20. #12200
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    64

    Default

    To me it looks like they are referring to 6019 because It states "later ruled..non hired and delayed hiring" aren't the 7,100 part of that group regardless?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. FDNY Test 6019-Union Square Protest
    By exp1isastreet in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 01-26-2010, 10:31 PM
  2. List #6019
    By ffbam24 in forum Hiring & Employment Discussion
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 03-30-2008, 08:59 PM
  3. FDNY List #6019
    By MailBox123 in forum Hiring & Employment Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-22-2007, 06:54 PM
  4. FDNY Exam #6019????
    By HouyBoy in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-11-2007, 10:50 AM
  5. FDNY Exam #6019-John Jay College Forum
    By exp1isastreet in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-22-2007, 03:11 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts