Fdny List 6019

[Douseit]

And whats the deal with getting so many trys at the cpat. If you go into a fire and your not fit enough to do your job, do they pat you at the shoulders and say, good try. Come back again in a week and you can try again.

I don't think that's the deal at all CN. I think there are some people out there that would make excellent candidates but never had the experience with some of this type of equipment. Give them a chance to handle it, show them how to use it and then give them the test. If they already know how to use it and pass the test in a practice session, accept it. Why would you have them come back and do it again? What you're calling chances, others are calling practice.

A lot of people here, myself included, are talking about going to the gym to prepare, buying vests, paying for cram courses and sucking up all the gouge they can all in hopes of having a better chance to get hired. There are a lot of people who don't have that opportunity. They have to work, support a family, can't afford the gym, never saw a stairmill, never heard of Firehouse.com. Why shouldn't everyone get a fair shot at a Civil Service job funded by their tax dollars.

Just think what would happen if you joined the military and on your first day at the rifle range, they tossed you a loaded M-16 and you didn't know how to shoot well enough to hit the target. Do they kick you out or train you. If you haven't been in the military, I'll answer for you, they train you. You've got to stop worrying about the guys or God forbid girls ahead of you. If it was meant to be, you'll get your shot, too.

As for "If you go into a fire and your not fit enough to do your job, do they pat you at the shoulders and say, good try." Was there a policy change? Do we now go from a practice session at the CPAT into fighting fires? I think not. The FDNY stills has everyone make a stop at the academy first and they decide if you are fit enough to go into a fire.

Other states have been doing this type of training and it works for them. How is the FDNY different?

[nameless]

if i've been told right from my military freinds. When you qualify with the rifle, you get to practice, but then there is still the 1 time, 1 chance to qualify. Its not "Oo you did good enough in practice, good job"


I think every place that lets the practices count is watering it down. Im in the hiring process for another NYS dept. They let us familarize 2 sessions, gave us 2 practice shots, but then we had the offical run which was the only one that counts. The CPAT is a lame watered down test, but atleast with one offical run you have to put up or shut up. Not put up, or come back and try again.


Everyone does have a fair shot at civil service. There are just limits to what they can do. They can give prep sessions, but what are they supposed to do if you cant come? They had an extremely varied scheduale, if you can come too bad.

Maybe they should have given us an IQ test, given the high IQs a handicap, and the low IQs an additional boost. We can do it for the physical too, you get a nice little tests to find out your fitness level. Then they'll tailor the weight of the vest, distances between stations, time on the stepmill so everyone is at the same level.

[Queens6019]

got my investigation packet friday,

[ChuckNorris]

Many people always talk about how they have such big boners for being a firefighter, but when it comes down to it, most just want there hands held. They (not referring to anyone in particular) are supposed to be adults. They give you a description of what is expected. If you are still lacking the information you require, go out and find it. That is what adults do. They don't sit around on their hands waiting for someone to knock at their doors with an opportunity, whatever it may be, FDNY or some big promotion at work. You don't really need a vest or fancy gym equipment. All you need is sneakers and a place to run, the dedication to do it 5 or 6 times a week, and time. Life is all about sacrificing for what you want. In economics its called a possibility production frontier. You only have a certain amount of time and you can't do it all. If you have a family, I would recommend you spend more time with your family and less time training for FDNY, but if you really want the job, and are not in the appropriate physical fitness, then, yet again, we need to make sacrifices.

[Douseit]

if i've been told right from my military freinds. When you qualify with the rifle, you get to practice, but then there is still the 1 time, 1 chance to qualify. Its not "Oo you did good enough in practice, good job"

Well nameless you're close but wrong. The qualifying you are talking about is for a badge. The badges or medals/ribbons are for shooting: Marksman, Sharpshooter and Expert. As you said, "if I've been told right from my military friends." AND if you understood what they said, in the military, you get one chance to actually qualify for Sharpshooter or Expert otherwise you WILL qualify for Marksman even if you have to stay in training. AND if you do good in practice, they slap a Marksman badge on you and count it in order to get you through. So your thinking, "Its not "Oo you did good enough in practice, good job.", isn't correct. I think their thinking is, you will have a chance to sharpen your skills in Iraq. Or not.

Nameless, here's an idea, tell the DI's that their test is lame and watered down and in other parts of NYS, the practice run doesn't count and you don't want your practice run to count. Let us know what happens.

So again, NYC has decided how they are going to run their test. Many think it's fair, some don't. It's very similar to other parts of the country. If you don't like it, don't take it.

[Douseit]

So I've been reading up on the CPAT, and I'm a little unclear on the step mill portion. Is it simply go to completion, or is there a limit as to your pulse rate, etc? Thanks!

Hi EOD. The stepmill portion is the first part of the CPAT. The total time is three minutes and twenty seconds. The twenty seconds is for warm up and lets you settle in at a slower rate. The three minutes is the timed portion for the test at 60 steps/minute. No heart rate monitoring is done for the CPAT. That's later during the physical. Hope this helps.

[eodcheese]

Hi EOD. The stepmill portion is the first part of the CPAT. The total time is three minutes and twenty seconds. The twenty seconds is for warm up and lets you settle in at a slower rate. The three minutes is the timed portion for the test at 60 steps/minute. No heart rate monitoring is done for the CPAT. That's later during the physical. Hope this helps.

Thanks Douseit, it clears it up perfectly.

[FLA1786]

Other states have been doing this type of training and it works for them. How is the FDNY different?

Retard quote of the thread right here.

Is this a rhetorical question?

[nameless]

Well nameless you're close but wrong. The qualifying you are talking about is for a badge. The badges or medals/ribbons are for shooting: Marksman, Sharpshooter and Expert. As you said, "if I've been told right from my military friends." AND if you understood what they said, in the military, you get one chance to actually qualify for Sharpshooter or Expert otherwise you WILL qualify for Marksman even if you have to stay in training. AND if you do good in practice, they slap a Marksman badge on you and count it in order to get you through. So your thinking, "Its not "Oo you did good enough in practice, good job.", isn't correct. I think their thinking is, you will have a chance to sharpen your skills in Iraq. Or not.

ok, pick apart the example for slight errors because I don't agree with you

Nameless, here's an idea, tell the DI's that their test is lame and watered down and in other parts of NYS, the practice run doesn't count and you don't want your practice run to count. Let us know what happens.

Ok, I'd do that. If I can't do the CPAT I should probably be admitted to the hospital because I'd have something gravely wrong with me. You want me to send a letter or something? They'd probably rather here that, than someone championing the new set up.

So again, NYC has decided how they are going to run their test. Many think it's fair, some don't. It's very similar to other parts of the country. If you don't like it, don't take it.

have you agreed with all parts of the testing process thus far?

[Douseit]

Retard quote of the thread right here.

Is this a rhetorical question?

Not worth a response.

Complaining about the test and physical will accomplish nothing. Getting hired under the guidelines set by the City of New York and the FDNY is all that matters. Try to post something worthwhile.

[Douseit]

have you agreed with all parts of the testing process thus far?

I don't have to agree with it, I have no control over it and the FDNY never asked for my input. I took it, I passed it and I will move along in the process. Stomping your foot and complaining like a little kid will accomplish nothing. You will learn this later in life.

Why don't you start a new thread about how much you hate the FDNY hiring process and leave this one for worthwhile information.

[nameless]

I don't have to agree with it, I have no control over it and the FDNY never asked for my input. I took it, I passed it and I will move along in the process. Stomping your foot and complaining like a little kid will accomplish nothing. You will learn this later in life.

foot stomping? crying? I don't see that anywhere in here, I see discussion, no crying or foot stomping though. Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension skills.

Why don't you start a new thread about how much you hate the FDNY hiring process and leave this one for worthwhile information.

Maybe you didn't read the FDNY 2006 topic. Questioning the process is a long held tradition. Just because you created the thread doesn't mean you get to censor discussion in it, maybe you'll learn that later in life.

[Hendrix14]

Training for the CPAT...someone care to school me on the heart rate info for the physical? Has me a bit confused after reading through the threads. Thanks in advance.

[SkylinePCG]

DouseIt, is someone monkeying around on your screen name? Youre a totally different guy tonight!

[FLA1786]

Not worth a response.

Complaining about the test and physical will accomplish nothing. Getting hired under the guidelines set by the City of New York and the FDNY is all that matters. Try to post something worthwhile.

I don't think what I said had anything to do with the physical, complaining about the test, or any thing of the sort. I was just calling you out on the most ignorant statement I've ever seen.

"Other states have been doing this type of training and it works for them. How is the FDNY different?"

Tell that to skyline who moved into the city just to have a shot at the job and all the other guys like him. Tell that to the guys who give their life to the military and then move to get the job. There is a reason the written and physical were harder 4 years ago (NOW I'm complaining). 15,000 people showed up to a test. No FD in the world that pays this little compared to the cost of living could pull that kind of turnout. FDNY is the example. They actually FIGHT FIRE, unlike a lot of these little county departments who use the cpat cause thats good enough for the biannual car fire. Not everyone is upper middle class and can live in Bay Ridge, they have to make huge sacrifices just to have the CHANCE at the job. And why do SO MANY people do this? Cause the FDNY is DIFFERENT. The best FD in the world. That little question you asked that I put in quotes above, walk down to a house and ask one of the guys that question...when he stomps his foot and complains like a little kid, you can educate him how it will accomplish nothing.

There. Your question has been answered, I'm off my soap box. You, Captain America, can have your thread back.

[Douseit]

No Skyline, I'm still the same guy but I'm tired of the polarization. I don't think Chief Mannix's letter did anything to help the situation either. FLA1786 is a 20 year old from Florida hoping to get on with the FDNY. He thinks, he knows what it's all about.

This is the best compilation of all the BS I've seen/went through; and this is the best it has ever been said. I mean...this guy EMBARRASSED anyone who was pro-6019...someone on the job give him thanks (as if you guys haven't).

Spewing this crap, will only perpetuate the problem. Nameless jumped on board and you seemed to sway that direction but followed up with, "Obviously, go and take advantage of the opportunity, but guys (and bad-*** girls), lets go in with our ***** together!"

Nameless, you read my mind. This is getting even MORE sickening as it muddles on.

Im thinking the kind of people who come on here are the self starter/self motivated types, and these massive crutches that are being built for the makeup of our list wont be needed by any of us here.

Obviously, go and take advantage of the opportunity, but guys (and bad-*** girls), lets go in with our ***** together!

and FLA, thanks for posting that. Great letter, should be req'd reading for anyone with even the smallest of interests in the list.

I don't think it should be required reading. It won't change anything except cause more of a division. EOD, I know how you feel.

All the points made are valid as I saw many of the follies before, during, and now after test day. But equally frustrating for me, as a minority, is that I wonder if I will always be viewed as a shoo-in. Does everyone think that I didn't try hard, prepare as much as humanly possible, or work as hard as those of any other race.

I applied on my own from out of the city. I paid my own way to go to NYC, stay for 3 days, and take the test. I studied the test prep books, and made sure I was at the test site an hour early. I did all this while juggling my commitments as an active duty member of the military (and tested just 4 days after returning from an extremely stressful deployment to Iraq). Now, all I see is minorities being trashed and veiled insinuations that NONE of us belong on the list. I might just pass on my own "dream job" if this is the environment I can expect. I'm not asking for special favor. I'm asking for equal treatment.

Try being frustrated with everything that transpired January 20th, AND being a minority. I wonder now if when I report to the Rock, I will be viewed with nothing but suspicion if not out-right distain. All I want is a fair chance too!

A lot of us didn't choose to be judged by the color of our skin. When I started this thread I was hoping to leave race and gender behind. The FDNY and NYC will have to come up with a program to deal with the issues on the job and in the house. It's not going to be easy but it will be done and has been done all over the country.

Skyline, what you see here isn't a guy that changed but a guy belittled and reminded of the color of his skin. When you thought I was one of the guys perhaps you may have seen me in a different light. You said, "let's go in with our ***** together", I totally agree and plan to. Let's include mind, body and spirit.

[matty21]

I am also for equal treatment but this is nto equal. Douse you said foot stomping doesn't work just ask the Vulcans who have been whining that blacks cant read as good as whites so the written should be easier (or completly done away with) or the woman groups that say its not fair to have a hard physical.. All this is BS because one group of people hold the majority in the FDNY.

Im all for equall but what part of this is equall. I'd rather be given the hardest test then take a watered down written scored on a curve(with multiple right answers I guess who that helped) and a pass/fail physical

JMO

[johhnyboy]

What is everybody still bickering about? I could understand it 4-5 months ago when we still weren't sure if the test would even make it to a list, but that's over with. The written test is behind us and what's done is done. Now we all share the same goal and that is to get the job. Let's keep this thread upbeat with tips and suggestions as to how everybody's making out with training for the CPAT.

[SeminoleB]

What is everybody still bickering about? I could understand it 4-5 months ago when we still weren't sure if the test would even make it to a list, but that's over with. The written test is behind us and what's done is done. Now we all share the same goal and that is to get the job. Let's keep this thread upbeat with tips and suggestions as to how everybody's making out with training for the CPAT.

Agreed. We are where we are.

[nameless]

Spewing this crap, will only perpetuate the problem. Nameless jumped on board and you seemed to sway that direction but followed up with, "Obviously, go and take advantage of the opportunity, but guys (and bad-*** girls), lets go in with our ***** together!".......

Skyline, what you see here isn't a guy that changed but a guy belittled and reminded of the color of his skin. When you thought I was one of the guys perhaps you may have seen me in a different light. You said, "let's go in with our ***** together", I totally agree and plan to. Let's include mind, body and spirit.

please tell me where I brought race into this? Hell when in this thread did I bring gender into it? I only said the test was watered down, and even further diluted then most other departments.


I didn't make this about skin color or gender, but it looks like you have.