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Thread: Fdny List 6019

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Douseit View Post
    I plan to stay middle of the road on the guy, girl, minority discussion. I have no problem with opinions. If I had a choice of who was saving my family, I know who I would pick. With that said, I've worked with diversity, I've had diversity training and I believe everyone should get an equal shot at a civil service job not just those privileged to go to cram courses. Just because someone doesn't possess the skill on the first or second try, does not mean they are getting a free ride. Some just don't have the geographics to allow them to have a more hands on experience. I believe that's what Randall's Island is all about. No different than Boot Camp. The military doesn't throw out the city boy over the hunting farm boy. They teach. Not everyone needs to be Superman but I hope they keep a standard and l would like to see that standard kept after the Academy.

    There's no doubt that List 6019 and the introduction of it's candidates will be diverse. There will be trouble and it will be difficult assimilating this new firefighter into the FDNY. There will be tension and difficult times in the house. But for whatever reason, the City of New York has decided to open the ranks and we all know what the playing field is.
    Everything you listed above actively prevents you from ever having a safe and enjoyable job.

    If we decide to continue, we all have to accept what's been decided and go the extra mile to make our job safe and enjoyable.
    My life and the lives of my brothers(as well as civilians we are sworn to protect) will be placed in greater danger thanks to fence sitters like you who don't understand the consequences of your latent paternalistic views and complacency in regards to racist patronage hiring in the city of New York.

    Everyone gets a shot at these civil service jobs...how is it any one group with a certain skin color benefits over another? Explain this...you seem awfully sure of yourself that this is somehow a egalitarian improvement over the formerly unbiased and objective merit and fitness based competitive civil service hiring standards.

    There will be no "assimilation" of this "new Firefighter"...they aren't going to be capable nor prepared to do this job and there will be consequences that will be felt by those who have the most to loose...the members of this dept, the poor, the immigrants, the people who are most likely to suffer from fires...minorities and firemen alike.

    ...ironic isn't it?

    FTM-PTB


  2. #142
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    Everyone keeps on ripping on people who are going to be coming off of this list. Bottom line is this. If the candidate can make it through the academy than he/she IS prepared to work in the FDNY. The academy isn't just physical, people who can't pass both the written and physcial tests in the academy won't make it through. End of story. Let the academy weed them out. If the quality at the academy stays the same then so will the quality of the candidates who make it through.

    -i'm not a minority either but i think it's BS how everyone who took 6019 is getting a bad rap.
    Sh*t List 6019 - 68xx's

  3. #143

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    Default Couple Real Questions

    Great to see the discussion although I don't know how far we'll get talking about the whole diversity issues and whatnot. My 2 cents: This has always been an issue. Regardless of the job, if you have a workforce made up of mostly white males in a city where the population is just the opposite, of course there is going to be scrutiny and criticism (and law suits). In my opinion, I dont think the FDNY has kept minorities and women away from the job through their hiring practices, but obviously there are some that think otherwise. The FDNY has to show they are making a valient effort to diversify their workforce and they certainly were making it known when the final test numbers came out in November. But thats just recruiting... ALL applicants have to go through the same motions and ALL future probies have to go through the academy. They are not going to take any warm body, give them a set of irons and the nozzle and say go to work! One other thing is that its seems a lot of people on here are in the top 1000, which really says something. Although the test was easy in many regards, you still had to do exceptionally well to be in the top 1000. I think it means you really prepared and really focussed during the test. I would be curious to know what the demographics are of these top 1000. Anyways, congrats to everyone in the top 1000.

    Just one more thing... for those of you with the application packets keep in mind to get those selective service cards and social securty earnings statements orderded NOW if you need them.
    Last edited by WetOnDaRed; 06-04-2008 at 12:24 PM.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurferP View Post
    Everyone keeps on ripping on people who are going to be coming off of this list. Bottom line is this. If the candidate can make it through the academy than he/she IS prepared to work in the FDNY. The academy isn't just physical, people who can't pass both the written and physcial tests in the academy won't make it through. End of story. Let the academy weed them out. If the quality at the academy stays the same then so will the quality of the candidates who make it through.

    -i'm not a minority either but i think it's BS how everyone who took 6019 is getting a bad rap.
    Bottom line is you guys who aren't on the job have no clue about the things you are commenting on.

    Just because some lawsuit waiting to happen gets forced through the rock doesn't mean they are prepared to be a fireman nor capable of performing the tasks that will keep me and my brothers from seeing the inside of a pine box.

    Many of you continue to act as if this isn't a problem and that someone else will take care of it. You can't be more wrong. If you are intending on taking an appointment should one be offered to you...it will become your problem...no amount of wide-eyed feel good garbage or complancency will make it better for you, your company or your family.

    Either you believe in unbiased civil service hiring and true equal opportunity or you believe in racially based preferential hiring schemes, lowered standards, marginalized safety and political patronage.

    Take a stand...which is it?

    FTM-PTB

  5. #145
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    Honestly arguing here is just messing this thread up. What's done is done. If you can't be mature enough to realize that while the test had tons of flaws, but it's over and done with, you are not ready to be in the business of saving lives. Grow the f-ck up. Complaining here and now will get you nowhere. I have no pity for anyone who cries about our test. It sucked, the cpat sucks, everything sucks. It does not change a damn thing in the scoring department though. People that scored higher than you generally will have scored higher than you on any other test. If your more fit than someone else in the academy, prove it. There is plenty of time to show that you are "the man". But please, don't f-ck up this thread.

    See some on you guys tomorrow morning, if anyone wants to say hi, look for the kid with short red hair.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish6019 View Post
    Honestly arguing here is just messing this thread up. What's done is done. If you can't be mature enough to realize that while the test had tons of flaws, but it's over and done with, you are not ready to be in the business of saving lives. Grow the f-ck up. Complaining here and now will get you nowhere. I have no pity for anyone who cries about our test. It sucked, the cpat sucks, everything sucks. It does not change a damn thing in the scoring department though. People that scored higher than you generally will have scored higher than you on any other test. If your more fit than someone else in the academy, prove it. There is plenty of time to show that you are "the man". But please, don't f-ck up this thread.

    See some on you guys tomorrow morning, if anyone wants to say hi, look for the kid with short red hair.
    Guess what Queens Quiff, your entire career the fact that you came on through this list will follow you like a bad shadow. A stigma that won't ever go away...20+ years of being one of "those guys"....think about that.

    I'm on the job and I'm telling you POS that you better start to give a sh*t about the other POS that will be on the firefloor with you.(or more than likely leaving you to die on the firefloor) THIS ISN'T A JOKE....Perhaps your former job waiting tables on Bell Blvd or working at some cushy wall st. office was a joke...this place isn't.

    I like to see my children at the end of the tour and you 20something indifferent hairbags and your carefree...not my problem attitude is a problem.

    You are in for a rough life kid. Either take a stand now or bend over and take it and like it.

    Take a good long hard look in the mirror(something you overly vain prima donna's are already prone to do) Think about what is happening to this job, to standards and to this country.

    Either take a side and a stand against this hijacking or accept the fact you are as racist as the vulcan society bigots.

    FTM-PTB

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Guess what Queens Quiff, your entire career the fact that you came on through this list will follow you like a bad shadow. A stigma that won't ever go away...20+ years of being one of "those guys"....think about that.

    I'm on the job and I'm telling you POS that you better start to give a sh*t about the other POS that will be on the firefloor with you.(or more than likely leaving you to die on the firefloor) THIS ISN'T A JOKE....Perhaps your former job waiting tables on Bell Blvd or working at some cushy wall st. office was a joke...this place isn't.

    I like to see my children at the end of the tour and you 20something indifferent hairbags and your carefree...not my problem attitude is a problem.

    You are in for a rough life kid. Either take a stand now or bend over and take it and like it.

    Take a good long hard look in the mirror(something you overly vain prima donna's are already prone to do) Think about what is happening to this job, to standards and to this country.

    Either take a side and a stand against this hijacking or accept the fact you are as racist as the vulcan society bigots.

    FTM-PTB
    I realize now I was in no position to question the authority of anybody that's on the job now, nor will I be for many years.....I don't mean to appear confrontational either FFFRED, that's just my nature, and I realize I'll have to work on that a lot if I want to make it in FDNY.
    Last edited by johhnyboy; 11-03-2008 at 08:39 PM.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by johhnyboy View Post
    Those are some pretty unfair assumptions you're making about him as well as the rest of us. What do you suggest us prima donna's do about our situation?
    Unfair? Life isn't fair son. This exam wasn't fair but you've now put more effort into disagreeing with me than dealing with this exam and the bigots who are rigging it in their favor.

    The same thing many of us have been saying for months on end.

    If you live within the 5 boros write your councilman...write your congressman as this is now a Federal issue with the justice dept suit. Call them and write them...make sure they understand that you as a resident feel this is a critical issue that must be delt with.

    Furthermore do what the men did in the late 90s when the exam rules were changed and residency points added....take them to court over the same thing the bigots from the vulcans are claiming....
    illegal Racial preferences... given to others based on the color of their skin.

    Call the ACLU if you can't afford a lawyer on your own.

    We are unable to do anything as we have no material interest...you do.

    FTM-PTB

    PS- I guess times change and the "men" today would rater capitulate to this BS then stand up for the right reasons.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Douseit View Post
    No Skyline, I'm still the same guy but I'm tired of the polarization. I don't think Chief Mannix's letter did anything to help the situation either. FLA1786 is a 20 year old from Florida hoping to get on with the FDNY. He thinks, he knows what it's all about.
    You still haven't answered or replied to anything I said. I never disrespected you or made out of line comments to you...that is what a forums is right? What does my age have to do with anything? I'm 21 and I live in Florida, but what does that mean besides I can drink and live near old people to you? You dont know where I grew up, what I've gone through or anything of the sort. I understand your frustration with the situation (believe me I do, and I'd lay down in traffic for your list number or adress). I'm not here to fight with ANYONE. You want worth while posts? Since your already looking into my forum history, read the one in FDNY '06 about working out for the dual goal of sport specific training for the CPAT and meeting/exceeding the FDNY academy PT test. That workout will allow you to ace the bridge run, PT test, and CPAT. And it will also prove that age is not a factor in what you know...much like race.

    Sorry if you feel offended by my difference of opinion, and sorry if you think I'm sitting here trying to pi$s you off. I'm not gonna sit here and continue this any longer. Consider it dropped and consider me to not have a problem with you.

    You should really find that post...

  10. #150
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    Here is the workout for all the new guys:

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showpost...postcount=2243

    Good luck...criticize openly...

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Guess what Queens Quiff, your entire career the fact that you came on through this list will follow you like a bad shadow. A stigma that won't ever go away...20+ years of being one of "those guys"....think about that.

    I'm on the job and I'm telling you POS that you better start to give a sh*t about the other POS that will be on the firefloor with you.(or more than likely leaving you to die on the firefloor) THIS ISN'T A JOKE....Perhaps your former job waiting tables on Bell Blvd or working at some cushy wall st. office was a joke...this place isn't.

    I like to see my children at the end of the tour and you 20something indifferent hairbags and your carefree...not my problem attitude is a problem.

    You are in for a rough life kid. Either take a stand now or bend over and take it and like it.

    Take a good long hard look in the mirror(something you overly vain prima donna's are already prone to do) Think about what is happening to this job, to standards and to this country.

    Either take a side and a stand against this hijacking or accept the fact you are as racist as the vulcan society bigots.

    FTM-PTB
    I don't believe I ever said firefighting was a joke. It's not. I know this. As of now yes, my only concern is myself and getting to the academy. But you best believe it will change while I'm there. Talking down to someone on the internet doesn't mean crap. Yes it sucks that I'll be coming on with the first list that will be/ is questioned for validity but I have no control over the tests they give me. There is nothing I can do about that. If you truly think that just because a lot of the testing factors are easier that everyone going in sucks, well you sir are very mis-guided.
    There will be plenty of respectable probies coming out of the rock, as well as some that didn't even deserve to take the damn written test. But like I said I am only in charge of myself at this point. Whining and bitching will get exactly nothing done. I busted my *** to score well on that test, and even though it was crap, I believe that my preparations helped me quite a bit. I feel the same way now. I bust my *** in the gym at least six days a week, so I'm ready for everything. I plan on earning my respect, and place in the house that I lucky enough to get put into; No matter what it takes. I've looked forward to this for quite some time. Basically, all I'm trying to say is that we don't all suck, and the sky is not falling.
    Last edited by Irish6019; 01-25-2008 at 10:04 PM.

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    FFFred, your union can't do anything, not even raise it as a workplace safety issue?

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    Default From this weeks Chief

    Letters to the Editor
    Sound the Alarm on Fire Test

    To the Editor:

    Much exuberance accompanied recent announcements regarding the results of
    the FDNY recruitment program, and many facts were presented to support
    claims that it, and the written test it led up to, were very good things.
    I would like to present some facts which were not trumpeted but which the
    people who may have to work with the firefighters produced by this test,
    as well as those who will be (ostensibly) protected by them, deserve to
    know.

    I will also include some of my opinions (which are not necessarily those
    of the FDNY) since opinions, as opposed to objective and cognitive
    knowledge, were so highly prized on said test.

    There were 195 questions; 105 of them were subjective (therefore
    illegitimate) and 87 of those 105 accepted more than one answer. This was
    an opinion poll, or a guessing game; not a test. In addition, DCAS did not
    explain beforehand how it would score this test, leading to suspicion that
    it wanted to be able to "cook" or manipulate the answers to achieve a
    desired result.

    Why else would 45 percent of all questions have more than one answer? I'll
    tell you why - FDNY sources stated after the test "that the test was a way
    to have as many applicants as possible pass" and that "the idea is to get
    as many candidates to pass as possible and then let the extended training
    period weed them out." I'm sure that candidates who spent a great deal of
    time, money and effort preparing will be very happy to hear that; maybe
    they should sue for fraud.

    Answers to the 105 subjective questions covered a range stretching from
    "strongly agree" to "strongly disagree," with five possibilities for each
    choice. This format had never been used before, but that's not a problem;
    many different formats have been used over the years for both entry and
    promotion tests.

    A problem does arise, however, when it is revealed that the city's
    tutorial program (which was established at taxpayer expense to prepare
    candidates) contained none of these types of questions nor even any
    suggestion that they might appear. Curiously, one group's tutorial course
    did have these types of questions.

    Now, which group could that have been? Oh, of course - it was the Vulcan
    Society. The very same group whose complaint led to the current Justice
    Department lawsuit against the FDNY. The group which represents black
    firefighters, whose ranks the city is desperately trying to expand
    (mystery novel buffs will recognize that I am establishing motive here).
    How could it have happened that this was the only group to review these
    types of questions when even the city's own tutorial did not? Are they
    extraordinarily prescient?

    Now, far be it from me to cast any aspersions - especially when an
    "exhaustive" investigation occurred, concluding five weeks after the test,
    utilizing a civilian member of the FDNY (who was involved in the
    recruitment campaign and is sympathetic to the Vulcan Society) as a
    liaison to DCAS. Based on this (very cursory) examination, it was
    determined all was above board and all rumors of malfeasance should be
    debunked.

    Hmmm ... I'm skeptical. And although I believe many people who have been
    placed in awkward circumstances by events beyond their control have only
    the best intentions as to the future of the FDNY, there might be some
    willful ignorance being practiced. A Daily News article published the day
    before the test stated that "sources confirmed that the written exam ...
    has been altered from previous editions." Who else knew about this
    alteration? When did they know it? Did they have specifics, such as how
    ridiculous the questions were and that a never-before-seen format (which
    again, was not part of the city's tutorial) was being used? Who was the
    source? Was this leak part of the investigation? I can't answer any of
    these questions, but to ensure the integrity of this and future tests,
    someone should be asking them.

    Apart from the dubious content there were several procedural departures
    from the norm which are disturbing. Widespread reports allege that
    candidates were driven to the test in FDNY vehicles and that people
    without admission cards were allowed in, as were people who showed up an
    hour late, forcing those who followed directions to wait out in the cold.
    Cell phones were supposed to be banned but were used during the test with
    impunity, and many proctors behaved in a less-than professional manner and
    could offer no useful answers to reasonable questions. Candidates were
    also not allowed to leave the test with a copy of their answers, which
    only serves to fuel suspicion that this test was manipulated (as if any
    doubt remains). All I've recounted so far is pretty depressing if you care
    about safety, current firefighters and the long-term future of the FDNY.
    Some comic relief is called for, and it is provided when we examine some
    of the stated purposes of the recruitment campaign and then some of the
    actions taken by the recruiters.

    During a meeting before the campaign began, those assembled were assured
    that the FDNY would not be seeking "knuckleheads" but rather
    self-motivated individuals. I will ignore for now the unintended hilarious
    irony of conducting a recruitment campaign that seeks self-motivated
    individuals and instead examine the Recruitment Unit's supposed disdain
    for "knuckleheads."

    The wealthy recruiters of the FDNY, some if not most of who were paid
    hundreds of hours of overtime, did more than simply hand out applications.
    It was proudly reported after the campaign ended that they also filled out
    applications, placed them into envelopes, sealed such envelopes and even
    put stamps on those envelopes if the targeted applicants were not capable
    of performing these acts. And that's not all - the Recruitment Unit had
    such high regard for those they had signed up that they contacted
    applicants in the data base 12 times - yes, a full dozen - to remind them
    to show up for the test (if someone contacted me 12 times about any one
    topic I would seek an Order of Protection). I looked up "knucklehead" in
    the dictionary and here is how it was defined: "someone who can't stuff an
    envelope and needs twelve reminders to do something."

    Readers of this letter may be starting to think that I'll run out of
    things to complain about soon. On the contrary, there are many things left
    that anger me, and I've got loads of sarcasm left with which to comment.

    The next target of my ire is the physical test, which is scheduled to be
    given soon. While the components of the Candidate Physical Ability Test
    (CPAT) may be valid, it has been rendered a joke by the decision to score
    it on a pass/fail basis. This means that if one candidate completes the
    test two or three minutes faster than another but the second candidate
    completes it within the established time-frame, both are considered to
    have performed equally. Put yourself in the place of a person trapped in a
    fire - would you be willing to wait an additional two minutes for rescue
    in order to satisfy a politically correct agenda? I didn't think so.

    How about allowing a female firefighter three chances to raise a ladder
    while you are waiting to be removed from a window? Or giving her three
    attempts at forcing open a door to get to your unconscious child? Doesn't
    sound like a good idea, does it? Well, if you believe it doesn't, then you
    risk running afoul of the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
    (EEOC). This agency, whose employees I'm sure consider themselves above
    such grubby considerations as common sense and safety, pressured the
    International Association of Firefighters (IAFF) into making changes to
    the CPAT "that are designed to increase the rate at which female
    firefighter candidates pass the test" according to a May 2006 letter from
    the IAFF President. Acting in response to a lawsuit filed by a female
    denied employment in Texas, fire departments utilizing CPAT must give
    candidates three shots at passing the physical in order to mollify the
    EEOC, which should probably change its name to the "GOSC" Guaranteed
    Outcome Scam Commission), since it is veering away from requiring equal
    opportunity and now demands changes designed to increase passing rates for
    certain protected groups.

    I count myself among the seemingly shrinking number in our society who
    still believe in equal opportunity for all - but only that. Concessions
    should not be made to appease dangerous whiners or to support the
    ever-increasing victim industry (which received a $3.2 million boost
    during this campaign alone).

    Why do females constitute such a minute percentage of the FDNY? Because
    only 2 percent of them can achieve the male average physically, according
    to Dr. William Gregor, a Social Science Professor and retired U.S. Army
    Lieutenant Colonel who is an expert on women in the military. Since the
    FDNY does not hire males of average strength but rather above-average, we
    can use the objective science of mathematics to conclude that a minute
    percentage of females is all the FDNY should ever hire unless artificial
    factors such as quotas are added to the mix. If gender activists are
    searching for a truly lopsided male/female employee ratio, I refer them to
    the city Department of Education, where 85 percent of teachers are female.
    This situation even has the added attraction of being able to do something
    for children as there are studies that suggest boys learn better from men.
    If someone does embark on this campaign, be sure to tell the Department of
    Education that if it needs someone to run a recruitment campaign for males
    while making an obscene amount of overtime, I'm their man ... oops, I mean
    person.

    For those who are blinded by ideology, or live their lives in quaking fear
    of being called a bigot because they disagree with a member of a protected
    group, or who are simply obtuse, I will end this letter with a few of the
    reasons why I spend so much time trying to protect standards.

    1. I believe everyone should be treated equally.

    2. I believe manipulating standards to benefit any one group by definition
    puts other groups at a disadvantage. 3. I believe that programs,
    preferences and set-asides that target women and minorities cause these
    groups to be viewed, in the words of author Shelby Steele, "as almost
    interminably weak" and place a "pitying stigma" on even the most
    hard-earned achievement.

    4. I believe, as written in the Letters of Junius, "that one precedent
    creates another. They soon accumulate and constitute law. What yesterday
    was fact, today is doctrine." If we allow such a God-awful sham as this
    recruitment program and test to pass without ridicule and critical
    comment, the dangerous whiners who have spawned them will be emboldened
    and feel free to move forward with such nonsense on promotion tests.

    5. I believe that "psychometrician" (the term used to describe those who
    designed this written test) and the theory that a test can predict who
    will be a good team player prove George Orwell's observation that there
    are some things that only an intellectual can be stupid enough to believe.

    6. I believe what British Field Marshal Montgomery said about truthfulness
    with subordinates: "A leader must speak the truth to those under him; if
    he does not, they will soon find it out and then their confidence in him
    will decline."

    7. I believe that I will make new enemies with this letter (in addition to
    those I already have) but also believe the FDNY should be defended, and
    take solace in this quote of Winston Churchill's: "You have enemies? Good.
    That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."

    8. I believe that reducing education requirements and scoring the CPAT on
    a pass/fail basis for the express intention of increasing the number of
    black and female firefighters respectively is in direct violation of laws
    prohibiting discrimination in hiring, testing and other terms and
    conditions of employment. So are recruitment activities that do not target
    every group equally. I do not believe, however, that anyone will take
    action on these points, as that would be impolitic.

    PAUL D. MANNIX, Deputy Chief, FDNY

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    Default article above

    very well written.

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    Anyone else here sign up for Saturday mornings?

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    Monday night.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things than to take rank with the poor timid spirits, who know neither victory nor defeat." FDR

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    Thumbs up Information Session at the Rock

    Hello all!

    This is my first post, but I have been reading this thread and wanted to thank you all for the information and support you guys are providing each other, as well as outside readers like myself.

    It's all about Team work.. Now onto something else.. Today I attended the the morning information session at the Rock. It was very informative and hope all of you were able to take advantage of this rare opportunity.

    We have some interesting months ahead of us. Start working on your packets, don't leave everything for the last minute.. ALSO WORKOUT.. I guess it can't be stressed enough.

    Sorry for the rambling.. I look forward to reading more of your post's.

    Good Night.

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    Two years ago, I had a job. I was a firefighter/paramedic, and I worked with a group of consummate professionals, social catalysts, smart, ambitious; true gentlemen. My entire extended family was within a 2 hour drive. I was making more money than I knew what to do with. Most people would call it ShangriaLa and enjoy the ride.

    It just wasnt enough for me. I didnt feel I was growing enough professionally, and didnt foresee any change in the near future. I did some research. I set a goal. I made a plan. I informed my family of my intentions, and I packed lightly. Nobody called. Nobody requested. And aside from an opportunity, I wouldnt dare ask for any acknowledgment of such.

    I came 1300 miles to the biggest, busiest city in the country, with zero family, zero friends, zero connections. I came to capitalize on an opportunity to be as good as I possibly could at what I chose to do with my life, which would be possible solely with the help of the departments existing members, and built on a foundation of people who either died in some of our country's worst disasters, survived to rebuild, and/or continue to inspire and influence us today.

    John Kenlon, James Gulick, John Binns, Ed Croker, John Decker, Alexander Shaler, Hugh Bonner, Bill Nash, John Bresnan, John O'Hagen, John McElligot (among countless others) did not blaze a trail with PC warm-fuzzies in mind. They had a city, a department, and a firehouse full of likeminded men to protect, and all their best interests had to be kept in mind.

    The shoes these people left behind seemed impossibly large to try to fill, but for those that came later, the bar had been set. And as anyone whos looked at the history of the dept. unfold, knows that inspiration prevailed.

    Now for anyone in my boat, there is no better place for learning through history, expert instruction or real life experience than New York City.

    The idea that anyone would attempt to dilute and sully the product of over 340 years of active, continuous advancement and betterment in the name of political correctness, racism, ego-stroking, and special-interest appeasement is nauseating and disgusting. It ****es on the grave of anyone who gave a part of themselves to build the FDNY into what it is today.

    This is the short side of what it means for us: The easy part is the asterisk that comes along with being a product of 'the list.' There will be a stigma that will be there the first day, but you can shake that. Prove to the people that came before you that youd have been there anyway, regardless of what test was initially given. The stigma will disappear.

    The harder part youll never even see. Instead, youll be dead. That person produced by this list that otherwise wouldnt be here... lied to by recruitment, pencil whipped through the academy, coddled by their corresponding representation society, protected by eeo laws... the guy with the finger in his nose in class, who never gave a fvck about paying attention during a drill, that couldnt give less of a ***** about where anything was on the rig, the guy who hooked up his pals with free fries with that for six months, while you dodged bullets from some turban-wearing cocksucker halfway around the world for 4 years (those two experiences are apparently EQUAL by the way)... maybe you havent met him yet, but you will... Even though you wont be there to peg him for sure, everyone else will find out just as soon as the smoke banks down, your exit ceases to exist and you get hurt.

    THAT GUY will be fine. And it wont be HIS mother cloaked in black, in front of a Wall of Blue, on the cover of the NY Post. Because just like he didnt give a fvck about preparing himself for the academy, just like he didnt give a fvck about you or any of your crew while on the job, he wont give a fvck about you on the fire floor, he still wont give a fvck about you when your locker gets cleaned out and your bright eyed/bushy tailed replacement comes knocking on the bay door for his big first day, and he definitely wont give a fvck about you the next time your birthday rolls around and your family "celebrates" without you.

    This thing thats been dropped in our laps is bigger than our little plight of getting on the Job. There needs to be more to the story than just 'sometimes you gotta eat *****.' Its clear that getting on is a huge hurdle we need to accomplish, but sorting out how to torpedo this trash-plan to make irrelevant demographic changes at the expense of our lives and our family's livelihood, needs to stay on the forefront of our minds too.

    xxx

    On to another subject, anyone that wants to get together to work out/run/generally improve your situation, or if people are interested in putting together a group workout in addition to the CPAT orientation, it really might be a good idea.

    Im game anytime Im not working-which is when most other people are. Im in the Bronx near VanCortland Park almost every day, the Rock on sat. AM and Ill be in Bayside, Queens every Tuesday through June... or whenever the Spring semester ends.
    Last edited by SkylinePCG; 01-27-2008 at 12:46 AM.

  19. #159
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    Great post, Skyline. It exemplifies the feeling of those of us that are going to be tainted by this list out of the gate. But, as you said, the truth is in our dedication. It is up to those of us that really want this job and made the sacrifices to prove to those before us that we belong.

    I'm down to get together and work out. I live in Astoria, I'm out at the prep sessions Wednesday nights, I don't have a car, and my schedule varies quite a bit every week, but I would definitely like to get with some like-minded and determined (hopefully) future brothers and get prepared to begin the one of the greatest things in our lives, if it's possible.

    I'm getting more and more excited about all of it. I grin and stare like a 5 year old when I see the trucks rolling by and just hope that everything goes well and I get the chance to sit where they are.

    However, man does this background packet suck! I have absolutely no arrests, nothing in my past that will be a problem, and nothing to hide, but it's pretty tough for a guy that's lived in 5 states since he was 18 to get all of the info together. I can't remember DL numbers from the earlier states and I don't know if I can get driving records without knowing the #s or being there in person, which is obviously not really feasible. You guys have any ideas?

    I also sold my car when I got up here last Jan. But, where I came from, the plates go with the car and I left them on it. Well, turns out the PoS that bought my car got a couple parking tickets here and in LA. I was able to contact him and threaten police action if he didn't bring the plates back and pay the tickets, which he did. I have the LA ticket, but I don't know the date, summons number, etc., of the one he said he got here in NYC. Any ideas how I could find out this information, or should I just call Background and explain my situation?
    Just a peon proby in the greatest job in the world; grinning ear to ear.

  20. #160
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    The only answer I know is for the official transcript to remain official, yes they have to mail it out.

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