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    Thumbs down Vote No On 1!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Everybody make sure that you take the time to vote on January 29th! If this Tax Reform Joke passes it will cripple our FDs and the hiring freezes will start and the city/county admins will start cutting services. It will also make it very difficult to negotiate a fair contract. I know that this is not anything that you guys out there don't already know, I just wanted to throw out a friendly reminder!

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    [QUOTE=gigafire;910451]Everybody make sure that you take the time to vote on January 29th! If this Tax Reform Joke passes it will cripple our FDs and the hiring freezes will start and the city/county admins will start cutting services. It will also make it very difficult to negotiate a fair contract. I know that this is not anything that you guys out there don't already know, I just wanted to throw out a friendly reminder![/QUO


    So I normally don't engage others in political discussion and/or debate as it tends to go down hill very quickly. However, Amendment 1 is something that I feel I need to share information with as it directly affects myself as well as other "public servants." Please take a moment to read the following and make your vote on the 29th with informed information. Just so you all know, I have no idea how to make a hyper link. You'll have to go old school and cut and paste the website address for the info. Sorry.

    What is Amendment 1?
    In plain terms, it's a tax cut for property owners. Here is the actual amendment to read. PLEASE READ IT- http://election.dos.state.fl.us/init...nd01-09-08.pdf

    What is the outcome if passed?
    - If passed, the average homeowner will only save an average of $20 a month

    - If you rent, you do not save anything.

    - The amendment will provide another $25,000 exemption on homes valued over $50,000 but only on local government taxes and NOT school taxes

    - Non homestead properties (rentals, lots) will be subject to a 10% cap .. assessment. The cap is currently 3%.

    - Homeowners will be able to transfer up to $500,000 of their Save our Homes benefits to a new homesteaded property (Also known as "Portability")

    - If you live in a nice neighborhood and pay a lot in taxes, someone can move in and pay less taxes than you and your neighbors.

    - This reduction in taxes for a few Floridians would reduce school funding for all students.

    Articles of Interest- (you can always Google Amendment one as well)
    http://www.miamiherald.com/1231/story/385119.html
    http://tampafloridarealestatefinder....in-to-heat-up/
    http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jan...amendment-one/


    A few homeowners saving a couple of hundred dollars a year will drastically cut county and city funding. This will trickle down to public services(fire,police, teachers) and end up costing the citizen down the road. A cut in cost means a cut in response times, quality of care, manpower to fight fires and crime as well as teach kids. I implore you to read both sides of this argument so you can come up with your own conclusions.
    Greater love has no man than to lay his life down for a friend.

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    Oh jeeze. Looks like lean times are ahead Brothers......

    I know I voted NO.
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
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    It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. I can pretty much guarantee that someone for some reason will sue over this.
    Greater love has no man than to lay his life down for a friend.

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    Well a funny thing happened to me today. I went to my mail box and found a flier from the IAFF telling us to tell everyone we no to vote no. Day late and a dollar short as usual.
    If your going to cry about doing the job you signed up for do us all a favor and quit, there are plenty of dedicated people standing in line for the best job in the world.

    Firefighter/Paramedic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic 61 View Post
    Well a funny thing happened to me today. I went to my mail box and found a flier from the IAFF telling us to tell everyone we no to vote no. Day late and a dollar short as usual.
    Thats odd. I got mine almost a week ahead of time.
    Greater love has no man than to lay his life down for a friend.

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    How the hell did this thing get passed?

    Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE I talked to about it was opposed to it.

    Just when we're getting ready to start negotiating our new contract, too.

    So much for that!
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireman4949 View Post
    How the hell did this thing get passed?

    Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE I talked to about it was opposed to it.

    Just when we're getting ready to start negotiating our new contract, too.

    So much for that!
    Bro, a bunch of people saw more money in their pockets and didn't think about what the road ahead would have in-store. It's unfortunate that a $20 a month saving would have this much impact on our jobs but it has. I don't think it will stick based on what I've heard about the possibility of it being unconstitutional but who knows. I just hope Christ doesn't look for a public service backing his next go through as governor. Speaking of which, has anyone noticed how orange that dude is?
    Greater love has no man than to lay his life down for a friend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpferry View Post
    I don't think it will stick based on what I've heard about the possibility of it being unconstitutional but who knows.
    We can only hope!
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    Originally Posted by rpferry
    I don't think it will stick based on what I've heard about the possibility of it being unconstitutional but who knows.
    That is what the union is telling us now. A bunch of cities have filed suits agaist the state stating the change is unconstitutional. Comming up next will be the penny tax which will fund COUNTY depts, basicly forcing consolidation.
    If your going to cry about doing the job you signed up for do us all a favor and quit, there are plenty of dedicated people standing in line for the best job in the world.

    Firefighter/Paramedic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic 61 View Post
    That is what the union is telling us now. A bunch of cities have filed suits agaist the state stating the change is unconstitutional. Comming up next will be the penny tax which will fund COUNTY depts, basicly forcing consolidation.
    Thats already all the talk here. Who is going to consolidate with BCFR. As much as I hate to say it, it would actually be beneficial to some depts. Those that only have 2 on the engine, would have a minimum of 3, sometimes 4.

    The downside, is the loss of pay, and seniority.
    Of course, if the county cuts jobs, its kinda a moot point....
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLSboy View Post
    As much as I hate to say it, it would actually be beneficial to some depts. Those that only have 2 on the engine, would have a minimum of 3, sometimes 4.

    The downside, is the loss of pay, and seniority.
    Of course, if the county cuts jobs, its kinda a moot point....
    No doubt it would be beneficial to some depts. Lake Worth and the Riv run 2 man engines still here. As far as pay loss and seniority, it all depends on what you make and what the union agrees to. I'd get about a $15k raise and keep my seniority, but we are also in the counties union. The down side is our citie's, and a lot of others, level of service and equipment would suffer greatly.
    If your going to cry about doing the job you signed up for do us all a favor and quit, there are plenty of dedicated people standing in line for the best job in the world.

    Firefighter/Paramedic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic 61 View Post
    That is what the union is telling us now. A bunch of cities have filed suits agaist the state stating the change is unconstitutional. Comming up next will be the penny tax which will fund COUNTY depts, basicly forcing consolidation.
    Do you think that would force Orlando and Orange County to consolidate? I know that the Orlando guys wouldn't like that one bit, but if we could get a slice of their contract I would be all for it. Our BCC has been nickel and diming us forever. I wonder how this consolidation would work as far as contracts/union etc???

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    Never gonna happen. I am sure one of the OFD boys can elaborate further, but I will bet BOTH my nuts that will never happen.
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
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    Do you think that would force Orlando and Orange County to consolidate? I know that the Orlando guys wouldn't like that one bit, but if we could get a slice of their contract I would be all for it. Our BCC has been nickel and diming us forever. I wonder how this consolidation would work as far as contracts/union etc???
    I would have to say this would be on a county by county basis and the larger, stronger cities will probably survive. On the same note, down in Broward, no one is talking layoffs. My brothers dept is still hiring. The whole Orlando vs Orange county is no different than West Palm or Boca Raton or us here in Palm Beach Gardens vs Palm Beach County, and I'm sure the list of others is long. What I've seen both here and in Broward is that which ever dept is absorbed by the county, they all go under the county union. Pay parity and retirement all have to be negotiated during the take over.
    If your going to cry about doing the job you signed up for do us all a favor and quit, there are plenty of dedicated people standing in line for the best job in the world.

    Firefighter/Paramedic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic 61 View Post
    I would have to say this would be on a county by county basis and the larger, stronger cities will probably survive. On the same note, down in Broward, no one is talking layoffs. My brothers dept is still hiring. The whole Orlando vs Orange county is no different than West Palm or Boca Raton or us here in Palm Beach Gardens vs Palm Beach County, and I'm sure the list of others is long. What I've seen both here and in Broward is that which ever dept is absorbed by the county, they all go under the county union. Pay parity and retirement all have to be negotiated during the take over.
    well I hope that for Orlandos sake that doesn't happen. I wouldn't wish our contract on anyone!

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    I really don't foresee OCFRD taking us over. We have a pretty strong city and I think we'll be fine on our own. They tried to consolidate us before and ended blowing a bunch of the tax payers money on a BS study that went nowhere.
    Greater love has no man than to lay his life down for a friend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpferry View Post
    I really don't foresee OCFRD taking us over. We have a pretty strong city and I think we'll be fine on our own. They tried to consolidate us before and ended blowing a bunch of the tax payers money on a BS study that went nowhere.
    Yea, I remember that study. Again, I know you Orlando guys are/were against it and I don't blame you one bit. I wish you would take US over! Well, it sounds like we are going to get a decent contract now despite this Amendment 1 fiasco so we will see what happens. Be safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gigafire View Post
    well I hope that for Orlandos sake that doesn't happen. I wouldn't wish our contract on anyone!
    The city's proposal for our contract that's up in Oct contains the following:

    1. 0%,0%,0% raises over the next 3 years
    2. No more health insurance for free to the employee
    3. No minimum staffing (back to 2 man engines and most likely the deletion of D/E's)
    4. No testing to "step up" just completion of the classes will be fine

    the list goes on and gets worse. Oh yeh, theirs still the 8 people the city wants to lay off.
    If your going to cry about doing the job you signed up for do us all a favor and quit, there are plenty of dedicated people standing in line for the best job in the world.

    Firefighter/Paramedic

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    Quote Originally Posted by gigafire View Post
    Do you think that would force Orlando and Orange County to consolidate? I know that the Orlando guys wouldn't like that one bit, but if we could get a slice of their contract I would be all for it. Our BCC has been nickel and diming us forever. I wonder how this consolidation would work as far as contracts/union etc???

    There were several problems that the consolidation comittee exposed, neither department is struggling financially and the services provided by both are excellent. Those two simple things are the begining of what incites consolidaiton.

    A big issue for the city is the pension, without funding from current firefighters the pension would fail and the city is on the hook to continue payng retired firefighters, which they dont want to do. It would be almost impossible to manage two pensions within the same department, could you imaging the dissent it would produce having the guy riding next to you getting better benifits when he retires for doing the same job, and retire earlier.

    The mayor will not want to give up the ISO Class 1 OFD just achieved, and consolidation would mean just that.

    As far as a OCFR getting the same contract I would be glad to help them get the same contract we curently have, or how about just a good contract with real steps.

    Stay Safe
    Rob

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    word on the grapevine orange county is getting that contract they wanted? I heard starting pay is going up to 41k for EMTS, and 46k for medics, I could be wrong though. I hear the step plan isn't "true step" because there is no cost of living...again, this is all hearsay, maybe an OCFRD guy could elaborate

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    Quote Originally Posted by PyroPat View Post
    word on the grapevine orange county is getting that contract they wanted? I heard starting pay is going up to 41k for EMTS, and 46k for medics, I could be wrong though. I hear the step plan isn't "true step" because there is no cost of living...again, this is all hearsay, maybe an OCFRD guy could elaborate
    Thats about right Pyro. We will have to continue to negotiate for the COLA but it is a step in the right direction. The way the slotting looks right now, it will benefit 1 to 7 year guys the most. People with about 10 yrs. on will not see a significant raise but at least the "steps" are being reduced from 28 to 14!! Not great but a start. I am suprised that we are getting ANYTHING now that Amendment 1 went through. Until I see my raise with my own two eyes on my paycheck I will remain cautiously optimistic! Stay safe bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemedic 61 View Post
    The city's proposal for our contract that's up in Oct contains the following:

    1. 0%,0%,0% raises over the next 3 years
    2. No more health insurance for free to the employee
    3. No minimum staffing (back to 2 man engines and most likely the deletion of D/E's)
    4. No testing to "step up" just completion of the classes will be fine

    the list goes on and gets worse. Oh yeh, theirs still the 8 people the city wants to lay off.
    Wow I didn't know that. I will keep my fingers crossed that this doesn't happen. If the city wants to layoff 8 people(from FD?) why are they still putting candidates through the hiring process? Anyway, I hope things stay strong at the OFD. You guys are a top notch FD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffzmann View Post
    There were several problems that the consolidation comittee exposed, neither department is struggling financially and the services provided by both are excellent. Those two simple things are the begining of what incites consolidaiton.

    A big issue for the city is the pension, without funding from current firefighters the pension would fail and the city is on the hook to continue payng retired firefighters, which they dont want to do. It would be almost impossible to manage two pensions within the same department, could you imaging the dissent it would produce having the guy riding next to you getting better benifits when he retires for doing the same job, and retire earlier.

    The mayor will not want to give up the ISO Class 1 OFD just achieved, and consolidation would mean just that.

    As far as a OCFR getting the same contract I would be glad to help them get the same contract we curently have, or how about just a good contract with real steps.

    Stay Safe
    Rob
    Rob-
    You hit the nail on the head. Very good points. Thanks for the support
    bro. Stay safe.

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