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  1. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber bendone's Avatar
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    If a Drunk would pull out in front of you with out a siren on what makes you think they wouldn't do it with a siren on?? Also if the person is drunk wouldn't that make an accident their Fault? Also we have depts in our area that leave their sirens on all the time and then try to talk on the radio, they are very hard to understand.


  2. #22
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDawgEMT22 View Post
    Besides, if I have to be up, everyone should be up. wind up that Q
    I hate it when I hear people say that. You wanna intentionally disturb everyone because you elected to go on a call in the middle of the night?
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  3. #23
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    Exclamation sirens: a common sense thing

    I'm a Firefighter/ EMT from WV. I'm not exactly sure whether the law says that we have to have lights AND sirens running at all times, and I'm wondering if everyone who has replied has really read their state codes. When I took EVOC, I learned in the class that if I'm in an accident I'm responsible whether the lights AND/or sirens were on or not. I volly for my fire dept. and I'm paid by our ambulance service. In both cases, we use our sirens with respect to our location. If there's traffic, yes we use both. If not, then lights only. It might also be worth considering that certain locations may warrant not using sirens or lights. I.E. neighborhoods filled with "false alarms." people seeking drugs from an ambulance or some other scheme to lure emergency responders.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    I hate it when I hear people say that. You wanna intentionally disturb everyone because you elected to go on a call in the middle of the night?


    hmm last time I checked, callin 911 doesnt usually mean "come help me if you feel like it"

    and after 11pm I usually drive code 2 anyways, the lights between my house and the station go "blinky blinky" (yeah it sounds cool) after 11pm. Also, as I said before, if my lights are on, my siren is on. Period, end of story. Same on the truck, engine, ambulance, whatever, lights are on, siren is on...
    Last edited by FireDawgEMT22; 01-31-2008 at 09:36 PM.

  5. #25
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Don't get preachy with me about going on calls in the middle of the night. I meant that the individual member chooses to go on the call based on thier availability (have to look after the kids, got to go to work in 2 hours, wife needs the car, just came home from the bar, whatever). The department is compelled to respond, not the individual.

    I also have to agree with part of OwensB's post. How many people here have actually read thier state codes? Ask 90% of the personnel at my work if your siren has to be on when the lights are on, and they'll give you an emphatic "yes!" However, the state code actually says that the siren must be used as "reasonably necessary." Be familiar with your state law ... rest assured that the lawyers will be if you're involved in an accident either emergency or non-emergency.
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  6. #26
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    a neighboring county here had a cop cream another car at emergency speeds sans siren. Killed a baby. Sirens might have helped, dunno. I'd rather try though.

  7. #27
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Don't get preachy with me about going on calls in the middle of the night. I meant that the individual member chooses to go on the call based on thier availability (have to look after the kids, got to go to work in 2 hours, wife needs the car, just came home from the bar, whatever). The department is compelled to respond, not the individual.

    I also have to agree with part of OwensB's post. How many people here have actually read thier state codes? Ask 90% of the personnel at my work if your siren has to be on when the lights are on, and they'll give you an emphatic "yes!" However, the state code actually says that the siren must be used as "reasonably necessary." Be familiar with your state law ... rest assured that the lawyers will be if you're involved in an accident either emergency or non-emergency.
    Actually the law in wisconsin is quite clear. I will post the statute for you.

    346.03(2)
    (2) The operator of an authorized emergency vehicle may:


    346.03(2)(a)
    (a) Stop, stand or park, irrespective of the provisions of this chapter;


    346.03(2)(b)
    (b) Proceed past a red or stop signal or stop sign, but only after slowing down as may be necessary for safe operation;


    346.03(2)(c)
    (c) Exceed the speed limit;


    346.03(2)(d)
    (d) Disregard regulations governing direction of movement or turning in specified directions.


    346.03(3)
    (3) The exemption granted the operator of an authorized emergency vehicle by sub. (2) (a) applies only when the operator of the vehicle is giving visual signal by means of at least one flashing, oscillating or rotating red light except that the visual signal given by a police vehicle may be by means of a blue light and a red light which are flashing, oscillating or rotating, except as otherwise provided in sub. (4m). The exemptions granted by sub. (2) (b), (c) and (d) apply only when the operator of the emergency vehicle is giving both such visual signal and also an audible signal by means of a siren or exhaust whistle

    By the way...I HAVE read the state codes...have YOU?

    Also, frankly I don't give a rat's *** who I wake up responding to a call in the middle of the night. My crew WILL follow the law regarding the use of warning lights and sirens. I would rather have a few ****ed off citizens than a dead civilian who didn't see or here us and the lawsuit that follows.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 02-01-2008 at 12:33 PM.

  8. #28
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    By the way...I HAVE read the state codes...have YOU?
    Yes, as an EVOC instructor and the person in charge of writing response SOP's for the county I volunteer in, it would be negligent of me not to read the state code prior to instructing or setting forth policy.

    Also, frankly I don't give a rat's *** who I wake up responding to a call in the middle of the night. My crew WILL follow the law regarding the use of warning lights and sirens. I would rather have a few ****ed off citizens than a dead civilian who didn't see or here us and the lawsuit that follows.
    What are you taking such offense to in my post? Nothing in my post was directed at you, your department, your state, or your state's laws. YOUR state dictates that you have to run lights and sirens both? Okay, no problem. NOT all states do.

    You obviously have read your state law and are familiar with it. Do you think EVERYONE who has posted here has done the same?

    And I simply said that I hated it when people make the pompus "If I gotta be up, so does everyone else" statement. Do I care if waking people up along the way happens? Not at all. However, stating that your going to stand on the Q just because you CAN and you're going to wake everyone else up is just a little childish in my opinion. I never claim that my opinions are right, but they are my opinions.
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  9. #29
    Forum Member backsteprescue123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Don't get preachy with me about going on calls in the middle of the night. I meant that the individual member chooses to go on the call based on thier availability (have to look after the kids, got to go to work in 2 hours, wife needs the car, just came home from the bar, whatever). The department is compelled to respond, not the individual.

    I also have to agree with part of OwensB's post. How many people here have actually read thier state codes? Ask 90% of the personnel at my work if your siren has to be on when the lights are on, and they'll give you an emphatic "yes!" However, the state code actually says that the siren must be used as "reasonably necessary." Be familiar with your state law ... rest assured that the lawyers will be if you're involved in an accident either emergency or non-emergency.


    I know that I have read it and the whole dept is aware of what our state law says. Not all departments are bass ackwards.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Yes, as an EVOC instructor and the person in charge of writing response SOP's for the county I volunteer in, it would be negligent of me not to read the state code prior to instructing or setting forth policy.



    What are you taking such offense to in my post? Nothing in my post was directed at you, your department, your state, or your state's laws. YOUR state dictates that you have to run lights and sirens both? Okay, no problem. NOT all states do.

    You obviously have read your state law and are familiar with it. Do you think EVERYONE who has posted here has done the same?

    And I simply said that I hated it when people make the pompus "If I gotta be up, so does everyone else" statement. Do I care if waking people up along the way happens? Not at all. However, stating that your going to stand on the Q just because you CAN and you're going to wake everyone else up is just a little childish in my opinion. I never claim that my opinions are right, but they are my opinions.
    Where do you live??

    Ill come there and let you hear the newly modified Q we made...at 3am

  11. #31
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDawgEMT22 View Post
    Where do you live??

    Ill come there and let you hear the newly modified Q we made...at 3am
    Central Virginia.

    Oh yea, I read sarcasm well.

    I was simply trying to have an adult conversation, that's all.
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  12. #32
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    I know that I have read it and the whole dept is aware of what our state law says. Not all departments are bass ackwards.
    I gotta go back and see what the heck I wrote that made everyone think that I was pointing fingers at them in particular. I know not all departments are bass ackwards. There are, however, a lot of members of the fire service that will simply rely on word-of-mouth without taking the time to research the facts for themselves. You and I see that everyday on here...
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  13. #33
    Forum Member backsteprescue123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    I gotta go back and see what the heck I wrote that made everyone think that I was pointing fingers at them in particular. I know not all departments are bass ackwards. There are, however, a lot of members of the fire service that will simply rely on word-of-mouth without taking the time to research the facts for themselves. You and I see that everyday on here...
    I see where you are coming from now....

    and yeah, we do see that.


    No hard feelings?

    And what FireDawgEMT22 was talking about by that Q was how we spent 7 hours repairing one and finished at 3 am and had to test it before we put it and the truck back in service.
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  14. #34
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    I see where you are coming from now....

    and yeah, we do see that.


    No hard feelings?
    None at all. Glad we could share a common understanding on what I meant.
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  15. #35
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    Default "professionals" arguing

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Actually the law in wisconsin is quite clear. I will post the statute for you.

    346.03(2)
    (2) The operator of an authorized emergency vehicle may:


    346.03(2)(a)
    (a) Stop, stand or park, irrespective of the provisions of this chapter;


    346.03(2)(b)
    (b) Proceed past a red or stop signal or stop sign, but only after slowing down as may be necessary for safe operation;


    346.03(2)(c)
    (c) Exceed the speed limit;


    346.03(2)(d)
    (d) Disregard regulations governing direction of movement or turning in specified directions.


    346.03(3)
    (3) The exemption granted the operator of an authorized emergency vehicle by sub. (2) (a) applies only when the operator of the vehicle is giving visual signal by means of at least one flashing, oscillating or rotating red light except that the visual signal given by a police vehicle may be by means of a blue light and a red light which are flashing, oscillating or rotating, except as otherwise provided in sub. (4m). The exemptions granted by sub. (2) (b), (c) and (d) apply only when the operator of the emergency vehicle is giving both such visual signal and also an audible signal by means of a siren or exhaust whistle

    By the way...I HAVE read the state codes...have YOU?

    Also, frankly I don't give a rat's *** who I wake up responding to a call in the middle of the night. My crew WILL follow the law regarding the use of warning lights and sirens. I would rather have a few ****ed off citizens than a dead civilian who didn't see or here us and the lawsuit that follows.

    Seems you all have lost sight of MY question...I'm NOT in Wisconsin or NW Ohio or where ever.....I myself was just wondering about small town IL,no stop lights(not a single one,not even a flashing light)......I'm talking rural,see for mile after unobstructed mile.

    BoxAlarm...I'm glad at least one person had the decency to speak up and not go with the "if i'm up,everyone should be up" answer,this is afterall a VOLUNTEERS,I'll say it again....VOLUNTEERS,job...I'm not mad at anyone,but if you volunteer,then you don't HAVE to be up,you CHOSE to be up,it's called courtesy,by not using sirens if you don't HAVE to in late night/early morning hours,sure if it's the law,then it's the law,I understand,just coming from FL and seeing Palm Beach County Fire-Rescue go code 2 in the late night/early morning hours made me wonder......this will probably casue an uproar i'm sure,but law or not I think it comes down to adrenalin and siren happy folks in MY area....not saying your area wischief or my other big critic's area(forgot your ID sorry),just MY area....After all,I just spent the last 24 hours in a Illinois Dept. of Trans.(IDOT) snowplow,passing many a driveways and intersections where any number of cars could have pulled out in front of me and they all were able to see me just fine,and even though I didn't volunteer for that job,and I worked from 7pm to 7am...I didn't blow the airhorn at every house to wake them up because I HAD to be up.

  16. #36
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    Default sirens needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    None at all. Glad we could share a common understanding on what I meant.
    Boxalarm...I think where you went "wrong" was when you somewhat agreed with me,the non-FF on the running of sirens in the middle of the night,they were all mad at me for asking "such a stupid question",and then you somewhat agreed with me,and all of sudden you were taking all my heat....sorry I put you in the "middle of the fire".

  17. #37
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    ..................
    Last edited by kuntrykid; 09-11-2008 at 12:23 PM. Reason: Don't want to be a member of these forums, so I deleted my posts.
    My comments do NOT necessarily reflect the opinions of my department, my fellow volunteers, or anyone else with whom I am associated.

  18. #38
    makes good girls go bad BLSboy's Avatar
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    Wow. I fail to see how you people can think that you not running with lights AND sirens, and someone disobeys a traffic law, it is NOT your fault. Seriously, COMMON SENSE. Empty roads, 3am, no traffic, turn the darn thing off. Wonder if always running with them on, day in, day out, when there is traffic or not, desensitizes the public to them.
    Not only that, but it will result in better PR when you don't wake the neighborhood up.

    And if you go ahead and quote some state statute, you better follow each, and every one of them.
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  19. #39
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    A few years ago, we had a police officer in our city that was involved in an accident. The officer was running with his warning lights on, but no siren. The situation was much as described by some previous posts, late at night, no traffic. Another vehicle pulled out in front of the patrol car, causing the accident. I can assure you, the lack of siren use was a BIG issue in the following litigation. In our state, there is a law specifically requiring the use of sirens when warning lights are on. I know that we are not the only state with such statutes regarding emergency vehicles. If you are involved in an accident and are in violation of such laws, YOU ARE SCREWED. Go ahead and get the checkbook out and start shoveling money out for the settlements that you are going to have to pay. We now have strict policies that mandate lights AND sirens on all emergency runs. This is not an issue of "annoying the neighborhood", it is mandated by law. It is annoying (even I get tired of hearing the darn sirens all the time), but until the legislature changes the statute, we will continue with this policy. We have reduced some of the noise by defining that not every call is an emergency that requires lights and sirens.

    Just my .02 worth,
    your mileage may vary.

  20. #40
    MembersZone Subscriber wischief's Avatar
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    If your not going to run your siren, why not just turn the warning lights off also and run non-emergency. If it's 3 am and there is no traffic, you won't need them either. It's kinda funny how some goofball who isn't even a firefighter gets everyone debating this issue. Do whatever your dept allows and is written in your SOG/SOP's.

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