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  1. #41
    MembersZone Subscriber dmleblanc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wischief View Post
    It's kinda funny how some goofball who isn't even a firefighter gets everyone debating this issue. .

    ...and who coincidentally has disappeared.....
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"


  2. #42
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLSboy View Post
    Wow. I fail to see how you people can think that you not running with lights AND sirens, and someone disobeys a traffic law, it is NOT your fault. Seriously, COMMON SENSE. Empty roads, 3am, no traffic, turn the darn thing off. Wonder if always running with them on, day in, day out, when there is traffic or not, desensitizes the public to them.
    Not only that, but it will result in better PR when you don't wake the neighborhood up.

    And if you go ahead and quote some state statute, you better follow each, and every one of them.

    First of all, you can do what ever you choose and risk the consequences.

    Secondly, the State of Wisconsin is abundantly clear on the law as I quoted above and I fail to see why anyone would risk the additional liability by not following the statute.

    Thirdly, if the scenario is as you paint it above in the part I highlighted why even have any warning devices operating at all? If there is no one on the road you don't need your red light on either. Well, unless you plan on disobeying any traffic laws, including speed in your response.

    Frankly I don't give a damn what any of you do in your POV responding, but to come on here and blatantly tell firefighters to not follow the law while responding borders on idiotic.

  3. #43
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    Thumbs down sirens needed

    Quote Originally Posted by wischief View Post
    If your not going to run your siren, why not just turn the warning lights off also and run non-emergency. If it's 3 am and there is no traffic, you won't need them either. It's kinda funny how some goofball who isn't even a firefighter gets everyone debating this issue. Do whatever your dept allows and is written in your SOG/SOP's.
    Wischief....what did I do to you,for you to call me a goofball,you don't know me....I just asked a simple question....obviously it was a decent one and is not a black and white,clear cut case,it's also obvious it varies from state to state....you sure are imature for a "chief"

  4. #44
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    Default still here

    Quote Originally Posted by dmleblanc View Post
    ...and who coincidentally has disappeared.....
    I havent disappeared...right here reading all the info and watching you professionals degrade eachother,calling names,"arguing" etc,etc..or as wispchief says...."debating"

  5. #45
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    Default sirens needed

    Looks like I've started a fire that dmleblanc,rfrdXPLORER,firepupp yemt22,and wischief can't get extinguished.

  6. #46
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    What he said:
    Quote Originally Posted by mbarry201 View Post
    In our state, there is a law specifically requiring the use of sirens when warning lights are on. I know that we are not the only state with such statutes regarding emergency vehicles. If you are involved in an accident and are in violation of such laws, YOU ARE SCREWED. Go ahead and get the checkbook out and start shoveling money out for the settlements that you are going to have to pay.
    What he meant to say:
    In our state, there is a law specifically requiring the use of sirens when warning lights are on. I know that we are not the only state with such statutes regarding emergency vehicles. If you are involved in an accident, even completely complying with such laws, YOU ARE SCREWED. Go ahead and get the checkbook out and start shoveling money out for the settlements that you are going to have to pay.

    Much better...now with 50% more reality!
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

  7. #47
    Forum Member CooterRob's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    It's better to be heard than not... I'm a firm believer in running the siren intermittently on a manual push button.

    This comment doesn't hold up court when asked after an accident...

    "Well your honor no one was around, so we didn't run the siren"

    You have a legal use of it in a bona fide emergancy... USE IT!

    My 2 cents... hope that helps
    "I don't wanna hear about it... I wanna see results!!!":-P

  8. #48
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    Default sirens needed

    Hey in a populated area,I fully understand,
    I just don't think most people really understand,when I say I'm in a small town...I mean SMALL,Pop. 450....like I said orginally,I've lived in Palm Beach County for over 20 years(Palm Beach County Fire-Rescue),they dont run sirens every single time,so what it boils down to is what state your in,it's clearly not a "blanket law" that covers everyone.

  9. #49
    Forum Member CooterRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostinlox View Post
    Hey in a populated area,I fully understand,
    I just don't think most people really understand,when I say I'm in a small town...I mean SMALL,Pop. 450....like I said orginally,I've lived in Palm Beach County for over 20 years(Palm Beach County Fire-Rescue),they dont run sirens every single time,so what it boils down to is what state your in,it's clearly not a "blanket law" that covers everyone.
    To me I don't really care if it bothers someone... it's covering my butt and the rest of my crews. I use it. No need to ave the Q fully wound at 2am, but tapping it makes all the difference when the witnesses are asked by the Plantiff's attorney"did they have their siren on?"... witness "yes sir"
    "I don't wanna hear about it... I wanna see results!!!":-P

  10. #50
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    Lostinlox, go back to the first post you did in the other thread and I have answered your question. pm me if you have any other questions I'm happy to answer them.

  11. #51
    Forum Member THEFIRENUT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostinlox View Post
    Hey in a populated area,I fully understand,
    I just don't think most people really understand,when I say I'm in a small town...I mean SMALL,Pop. 450....like I said orginally,I've lived in Palm Beach County for over 20 years(Palm Beach County Fire-Rescue),they dont run sirens every single time,so what it boils down to is what state your in,it's clearly not a "blanket law" that covers everyone.
    Tell me this.....If you come to a red light, and no one is around, do you stop at it or do you just keep going. Same thing don't you think??????

    It is not about what you think should be happening. It is about us doing our jobs. You may think that you asked a simple question, but the way that you asked it, shows your disrespect for us. So, in fact, your question was not simple at all. It was a jab at how "comical" us firefighters are.

    Next time you have a question about how we do business, please talk to your local fire department or department of public safety in person. This way you could possibly get an answer to your "simple" question. Otherwise, take your jabs at FF somewhere else.
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

    ** "The comments made here are this person's views and possibly that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

  12. #52
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    Default sirens needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by THEFIRENUT View Post
    Tell me this.....If you come to a red light, and no one is around, do you stop at it or do you just keep going. Same thing don't you think??????

    It is not about what you think should be happening. It is about us doing our jobs. You may think that you asked a simple question, but the way that you asked it, shows your disrespect for us. So, in fact, your question was not simple at all. It was a jab at how "comical" us firefighters are.

    Next time you have a question about how we do business, please talk to your local fire department or department of public safety in person. This way you could possibly get an answer to your "simple" question. Otherwise, take your jabs at FF somewhere else.

    FIRENUT,you too FAILED to read my comment to.....IT IS HAPPENING,IT DOES HAPPEN,maybe not where YOUR at...but it DOES happen,otherwise why would I bring it up,I've said this about 10 times....It's not about what I think should happen,it's already happening.....If you would step out of your almighty fire boots for a second and look from my point of view(which I think will be impossible for most ppl on here),but to leave the big,over-populated,city where theres cars and people around at all hours of the day and night,and to see rescue trucks running with LIGHTS ONLY(turning on thier siren at intersections only),and then to come up here to small town USA where your lucky to see 10 cars on the road in a 24 hour period and see 2 depts(joint response) responding code 3 with no one around,no driveways where some one could pull out of,no intersection,no man holes that some one could pop up out of,and see that it looks a little odd...no jabs taken,loosen your boots,let some blood flow to your brain and see if you can see it from my point of view(I know,I know,you cant,your gonna run lights and sirens all the time no matter what)

  13. #53
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostinlox View Post
    FIRENUT,you too FAILED to read my comment to.....IT IS HAPPENING,IT DOES HAPPEN,maybe not where YOUR at...but it DOES happen,otherwise why would I bring it up,I've said this about 10 times....It's not about what I think should happen,it's already happening.....If you would step out of your almighty fire boots for a second and look from my point of view(which I think will be impossible for most ppl on here),but to leave the big,over-populated,city where theres cars and people around at all hours of the day and night,and to see rescue trucks running with LIGHTS ONLY(turning on thier siren at intersections only),and then to come up here to small town USA where your lucky to see 10 cars on the road in a 24 hour period and see 2 depts(joint response) responding code 3 with no one around,no driveways where some one could pull out of,no intersection,no man holes that some one could pop up out of,and see that it looks a little odd...no jabs taken,loosen your boots,let some blood flow to your brain and see if you can see it from my point of view(I know,I know,you cant,your gonna run lights and sirens all the time no matter what)
    Look it is really simple, I'll try one more time to explain it to you.

    1) IF the law of your state says when an emergency vehicle is in motion and the warning lights are on the siren must be on too then it is end of story. Those who do otherwise bring ADDITIONAL liability upon themselves y violating the law.

    2) City or small town or rural road, there is no distinction in the law on how you should respond.

    3) What is it about the above 2 points YOU simply REFUSE to understand?

    4) If you are advocating NON-Emergency responses so they don't wake you up at night then you are foolish beyond belief.

  14. #54
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    Default sirens needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Look it is really simple, I'll try one more time to explain it to you.

    1) IF the law of your state says when an emergency vehicle is in motion and the warning lights are on the siren must be on too then it is end of story. Those who do otherwise bring ADDITIONAL liability upon themselves y violating the law.

    2) City or small town or rural road, there is no distinction in the law on how you should respond.

    3) What is it about the above 2 points YOU simply REFUSE to understand?

    4) If you are advocating NON-Emergency responses so they don't wake you up at night then you are foolish beyond belief.
    If you look back this is the FIRST time you've posted this,the other time was for Wisconsin law...which does me no good...besides...I'm not "debating"(which is a friendly way of saying arguing) with you,me and Wischief have come to terms and made nicey nice....why can't you?

  15. #55
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Lox,

    I wondered if some of the confusion came about from the IL FF's following code, and maybe the FL FF's weren't? Therefore, I did some research and found this section of the FL code, which is very similar to my state's:

    316.271 Horns and warning devices.--

    (1) Every motor vehicle when operated upon a highway shall be equipped with a horn in good working order and capable of emitting sound audible under normal conditions from a distance of not less than 200 feet.

    (2) No horn or other warning device shall emit an unreasonably loud or harsh sound or a whistle.

    (3) The driver of a motor vehicle shall, when reasonably necessary to ensure safe operation, give audible warning with his or her horn, but shall not otherwise use such horn when upon a highway.

    (4) No vehicle shall be equipped with, nor shall any person use upon a vehicle, any siren, whistle, or bell, except as otherwise permitted in this section.

    (5) It is permissible but not required that any vehicle be equipped with a theft alarm signal device which is so arranged that it cannot be used by the driver as an ordinary warning signal.

    (6) Every authorized emergency vehicle shall be equipped with a siren, whistle, or bell capable of emitting sound audible under normal conditions from a distance of not less than 500 feet and of a type approved by the department, but such siren, whistle, or bell shall not be used except when the vehicle is operated in response to an emergency call or in the immediate pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law, in which event the driver of the vehicle shall sound the siren, whistle, or bell when reasonably necessary to warn pedestrians and other drivers of the approach thereof.

    (7) Notwithstanding the other provisions of this section, a trolley may be equipped with a bell, and the bell is not required to be used only as a warning device. As used in this subsection, the term "trolley" includes any bus which resembles a streetcar, which is powered by overhead electric wires or is self-propelled, and which is used primarily as a public conveyance.

    (8) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.

    History.--s. 1, ch. 71-135; s. 4, ch. 86-36; s. 1, ch. 88-91; s. 325, ch. 95-148; s. 203, ch. 99-248.
    It looks as though the FL personnel may well have been operating within the limits of the statute, whereas the IL folks are compelled to follow different rules, which creates some of the differences you're seeing....
    Career Fire Captain
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    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  16. #56
    makes good girls go bad BLSboy's Avatar
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    Nah nah nah nah nah



    I know, real mature.
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
    Member, IACOJ.
    FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

  17. #57
    MembersZone Subscriber preston124's Avatar
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    After 11 years, I have just gotten tired of hearing it all the time. Emergency lights or not, siren or not, if I am responding to a call and disobeying any of the traffic laws (speeding, red signal, etc.) I am at fault in the crash. Why aggrivate the public (who have to vote on and pay the taxes that fund me) at all times of the night when it really wasn't necessary in the first place? I can't think of a single person that obeys EVERY traffic law ALL the time.

    If I am speeding down the road with siren on or not and can't stop in time for the lady in a wheelchair crossing the street, I am certainly not using any due regard for the safety of others. The plaintiff's attorney would ask me: "Why were you driving in a manner that you were unable to avoid hitting my client? The driver of an emergency vehicle should only go at a speed that allows him to avoid an accident.

    Drivers here do a lot of stupid things around fire trucks. We have to avoid that on a daily basis. They go left, right, slam on brakes, etc. I'm sure I'm not alone.

    Here is the LA law concerining emergency vehicles:

    §24. Emergency vehicles; exceptions

    A. The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle, when responding to an emergency call, or when in the pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law, or when responding to, but not upon returning from, a fire alarm, may exercise the privileges set forth in this Section, but subject to the conditions herein stated.

    B. The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle may:

    (1) Park or stand, irrespective of the provisions of this Chapter;

    (2) Proceed past a red or stop signal or stop sign, but only after slowing down or stopping as may be necessary for safe operation;

    (3) Exceed the maximum speed limits so long as he does not endanger life or property;

    (4) Disregard regulations governing the direction of movement or turning in specified directions.

    C. The exceptions herein granted to an authorized emergency vehicle shall apply only when such vehicle is making use of audible or visual signals sufficient to warn motorists of their approach, except that a police vehicle need not be equipped with or display a red light visible from in front of the vehicle.

    D. The foregoing provisions shall not relieve the driver of an authorized vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the safety of all persons, nor shall such provisions protect the driver from the consequences of his reckless disregard for the safety of others.

    Acts 1962, No. 310, §1. Amended by Acts 1980, No. 160, §1.
    CHAOS = Chief Has Arrived on Scene

  18. #58
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    Thumbs up sirens needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Lox,

    I wondered if some of the confusion came about from the IL FF's following code, and maybe the FL FF's weren't? Therefore, I did some research and found this section of the FL code, which is very similar to my state's:



    It looks as though the FL personnel may well have been operating within the limits of the statute, whereas the IL folks are compelled to follow different rules, which creates some of the differences you're seeing....
    Thank you BoxAlarm,you and a cpl others on here have been helpful,thanks for taking the time.

  19. #59
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    Exclamation sirens needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Look it is really simple, I'll try one more time to explain it to you.

    1) IF the law of your state says when an emergency vehicle is in motion and the warning lights are on the siren must be on too then it is end of story. Those who do otherwise bring ADDITIONAL liability upon themselves y violating the law.

    2) City or small town or rural road, there is no distinction in the law on how you should respond.

    3) What is it about the above 2 points YOU simply REFUSE to understand?

    4) If you are advocating NON-Emergency responses so they don't wake you up at night then you are foolish beyond belief.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoclI...=user...enough said

  20. #60
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    Thumbs up sirens needed?

    In one very simple answer,the debate is over....

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lostinlox
    I have a question...I'm not a FF,and this is an honest question....let me first say that I have lived in South Florida for over 20 years(Palm Beach County),there you see fire trucks,ambulances,police cars,etc,everyday.....if thier lane of traffic down there is clear(on a 2 lane road,no intersections near) they don't use thier sirens most of the time,if it's in the middle of the night/early morning when most people are in bed,they don't use thier sirens,with that said....I moved to a small town in East Central IL with a VFD,lots of flat farm land,you can see for miles if the crops aren't in and grown,you can see for miles around that thier isn't a vehicle or person nearby and they have thier lights(which is not a prob) and the sirens(which can be a prob) blaring,prime example,at 6:30am today,the FD goes by the house sirens screaming,not a car within miles in any direction,what is the point,are they just siren happy,or is it a law,just doesn't make any sense to me,to me the only thing that is accomplished at that point is that it wakes the town up so that they call all follow you to the scene,can anyone help me out here?

    24Fireman says...

    I live in East Central IL also and we had a call this morning at 6:30, where about do you live?
    It is law in IL that a fire truck or ambulance is not a authorized emergency vehichle unless it is using both lights and siren. But we do cut the siren most of the time in the early morning hours until we get to the main road. At 6:30 however a lot of people are heading to work so using the siren right away is called for.

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