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  1. #21
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    Don't be surprised if some of the manufactures that already have aerials still bid on LTI in an attempt to limit the competition and/or have a bigger "share of the market".
    With a rep like LTI, I would think it would be a good investment to buy that division and then sell the ladder to other manufactures. They could make a profit off of the ladder while another manufacturer builds the body. Then they could even claim to have a larger "share of the market". (If you know what I mean)
    For now, lets hope for the best.

    SMT
    Last edited by meteoman; 02-04-2008 at 10:56 PM.


  2. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber jfTL41's Avatar
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    Someone want to show me where anyone mentioned anything about LTI being sold? The Ephrata plant was not on the list of closures and I have not seen LTI name or plant. In fact I would venture to guess that their aerial products account for a very large portion of ALF's total sales nationwide.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfTL41 View Post
    Someone want to show me where anyone mentioned anything about LTI being sold? The Ephrata plant was not on the list of closures and I have not seen LTI name or plant. In fact I would venture to guess that their aerial products account for a very large portion of ALF's total sales nationwide.

    Well from most accounts on here they are the only reason to buy an ALF.

    Do they sell to other builders?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ha11igan View Post
    Well from most accounts on here they are the only reason to buy an ALF.

    Do they sell to other builders?
    No, they do not. The sad thing is that before ALF made the Eagle chassis their own "sole use" product, the AI, Snorkel brands and LTI aerial lines their own "sole use" product, etc. - they sold quite well. Well, maybe not AI, which I don't think anyone will ever say had a good reputation. Lots of builders were more than happy to put the Eagle chassis under their bodies, General Safety did, Alexis, as I'm sure many others did. Heck, the only Snorkel product left is the Telesqurt, you couldn't buy a new Snorkel or Squrt now if you wanted to (at least that's the best I can tell...)

    Everything is pure speculation obviously at this point, but like some of the arguments state - there needs to be a patient, long term investor that is willing to put a lot of capital into the brand and can tolerate long time frames before even a potential profit comes back. In today's corporate culture, and with the economy behaving badly, let alone the stigma that ALF is going to have to muddle through because of the things happening to various department's with rigs on order, I sure hope someone comes forward that can do this, at the very least for the sake of everyone earning a paycheck building products at any one of the ALF facilities.
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

  5. #25
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    I don't know the prior history of the new owners, but it is normal occurrence in todays business world to buy the company and sell off the assets piecemeal for a profit.

    Someone with more time on their hands than me may want to research the tendencies of Patriarch. I am a firm believer in the world of finance that past history is a good indicator of future behavior.

    C6

  6. #26
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    here's a press release issued from ALF

    n=22&p=4&s=22&a=162http://americanlafrance.com/interior...p=4&s=22&a=162

  7. #27
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    Angry

    I still have not seen where anyone has addressed the question posed by "jfTL41".

    Where is everyone getting their information that ALF is closing the former LTI facility?

    The only PA plant that will be closing is Lebanon, not Ephrata. The Telesqurt and Squrt units along with the aerial refurb jobs will all be transferred to the Ephrata facility.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10House View Post

    The only PA plant that will be closing is Lebanon, not Ephrata. The Telesqurt and Squrt units along with the aerial refurb jobs will all be transferred to the Ephrata facility.
    I'd think this move would slow the aerial line down. Deliveries were already behind schedule and over a year, now add in more work to a tight quarters facility? Last time I was there, there were more trucks in Lebanon than could fit within Ephrata's gates.

  9. #29
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    believe me, things will slow down big time now.

    how many orders are going to be canceled by nervous customers or by the bankruptcy court?

    remember, ALF can petition the court to get out of any contracts that are unprofitable, so if they see a contract with a penalty clause or anything else that makes it unprofitable, they cancel it.

  10. #30
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    Default ALF Reorganization Plan

    You can read the Bankrupcy Filing and Reorganization Plan at www.Kccllc.net/ALF

    Interesting item in the reorganization plan, is that ALF is asking the court to allow them to unilatterally cancel at least 30 apparatus contracts that they have determined that they will lose money on. These are contracts not secured with a performance bond. It seems that they will attempt to complete the contracts that have a performance bond attached.

    Make sure you get a performance bond when you purchased a new rig (from any manufacturer).

  11. #31
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    Default All the info

    Here is a link to all the info that is available so far on the ALF issue.


    http://www.kccllc.net/ALF

  12. #32
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    Post Alf ?

    After reading the chapter 11 information provided on the link, It looks like ALF will go up for sale with Patriarch Partners buying ALF back at a reduced rate with little or no debt. That is what it looks like to me.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skysthelimit View Post
    After reading the chapter 11 information provided on the link, It looks like ALF will go up for sale with Patriarch Partners buying ALF back at a reduced rate with little or no debt. That is what it looks like to me.
    If patriarch buys back ALF and reopens the new plant, who in there right mind would "sell them parts for there apparatus "after not being payed before and after bankruptcy ??

  14. #34
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    Exclamation Re; Parts

    There will be vendors who will sell to ALF however they will be very cautious moving forward, I guess the question should be Who would buy the product not knowing if they can get parts to repair it. The current jewel is the LTI name and product. One of the best in the industry, there maybe some manufacture who would like to add this product line, to there line up.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodbridgeFFII View Post
    If patriarch buys back ALF and reopens the new plant, who in there right mind would "sell them parts for there apparatus "after not being payed before and after bankruptcy ??
    I suspect that suppliers will place ALF on COD for materials.

    C6

  16. #36
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    Thumbs down

    What a sham! It's truly pathetic how easy it is to scam away your debt when you have plenty of money. If Patriarch owns ALF is some manner or form, how is it that instead of using Ms. Tilton's $50 mil to pay off debt, they can sell it back as part of re-organization and use the same money to move forward debt free! A classic big money shell game. I hope ALF can survive for the employees, but what a slap in the face to those whom they owe big dollars. I sure as hell would have them on COD if I'd even sell them anything after a sham like this. Though my understanding is that many big suppliers need to keep market share and annually losing 600 transmissions, 250 motors or whatever could evidentially be seen as a larger negative that writing off the loss.

  17. #37
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    I have read the filing a few times, I don't see where they are selling the company to themselves or anyone else. They have filed for reorginization and if that is not approved then the company will be for sale. Am I missing something?

  18. #38
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    I have read the filing a few times, I don't see where they are selling the company to themselves or anyone else. They have filed for reorginization and if that is not approved then the company will be for sale. Am I missing something?

    i think you are. read this:

    http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0810...0000000004.pdf

  19. #39
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    Exclamation Correction

    Sorry, I wanted to say when the sale is approved it will happen.

    Take note to the PPAS

    Proposed Sale Of Substantially All of the Debtor's Assets
    On or about February 2, 2008, the Debtor filed its Debtor’s Motion for an Order Pursuant
    to 11 U.S.C. §§ 105, 363, and 365 and Rules 2002, 6004, 6006, and 9014 of the Federal Rules of
    Bankruptcy Procedure (A) Authorizing the Sale of Substantially All of Its Assets; (B) Approving
    an Asset Purchase Agreement, Subject to Higher and/or Better Offers; (C) Approving the
    Assumption and Assignment of Certain Executory Contracts and Unexpired Leases; and (D)
    Granting Related Relief (the “Sale Motion”) and the Motion for Order (A) Approving Bid
    Procedures Relating to Sale of Substantially All of the Debtor’s Assets; (B) Scheduling a
    Hearing to Consider the Sale and Approving the Form And Manner of Notices; (C) Establishing
    Procedures Relating to Assumption and Assignment of Certain Contracts, Including Notice of
    Proposed Cure Amounts; and (D) Granting Related Relief (the “Bid Procedures Motion”).
    Pursuant to the Sale Motion, the Debtor proposes to sell substantially of its assets to PPAS or its
    assignee(s) for a purchase price pursuant to a credit bid of at least $150 million of debt and
    assumption of certain liabilities.
    Pursuant to the Bid Procedures Motion, the Debtor proposes that the proposed sale to
    PPAS or its assignee(s) be subject to higher and better bids upon the completion of a marketing
    process conducted by the Debtor and its professional advisors. The Debtor and its professionals
    will conduct an extensive marketing effort to attract potential competing offers for the sale of the
    Debtor’s estate, including the establishment of a data room for potential purchasers and direct
    contact with several parties that might have an interest in the Debtor's assets.

    Patriarch Partners Agency Services, LLC (“PPAS”)

  20. #40
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    I thought the sale of the company was the "Plan B" in case their original measures didn't bring in the return they were hoping for?
    FTM-PTB DTRT

    Everything I state on here is to support and aid my fellow firefighters. Everything I post is my opinion only, and in no way should be taken as an official opinion of any Company, Department, or Municipality I represent... oh and this includes Pierce Mfg, as so their legal department has advised me; since they apparently also invented the right to control "Free Speech".

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