1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck1 View Post
    I doubt they'll be cancelling any Liberty orders - thats the bread and butter...or what should be the bread and butter anyway
    If I had to guess (and I do) I'd guess that the orders that will be canceled will be one-off, high option, very customized orders. While those orders can be very expensive purchases for the departments, are they necessarily a high profit margin order for the manufacturer? Also, they're certainly more labor intensive and more difficult to build than a cookie cutter model such as the Liberty series.

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    I heard something amazing today. Someone bought over 200 brand new rear axles from ALF. It seems that when they receive a chassis for an aerial they simply cut the frame off and attach the front section to the aerial torque box. That part isn't all that amazing. What blew my mind was that they didn't even try to reuse the axles, they used totally different ones. This guy bought over 200 brand new axles equipped with brand new tires, including Michelins, and even got the driveshafts.

    What a waste!

    This is what happens when corporate, cookie cutter management meets customized fire apparatus. Remember that the next time you real an ALF press release claiming that software is a problem. It sounds more like management is the problem.

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    Actually this is the scoop on the axles. As much as I love a good rumor I have to throw this in.

    American LaFrance seeks permission to sell assets
    By Dan McCue , Staff Writer

    American LaFrance wants to sell off assets and property that is free and clear of liens, claims or other encumbrances as it moves to reorganize itself into a leaner and profitable company.

    A hearing on the company’s request for permission is set for 10 a.m. March 3 in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Wilmington, Del. Objections to the request must be filed with the court by Feb. 25.

    American LaFrance filed for Chapter 11 protection on Jan. 28, and has been working with a court-appointed trustee since Feb. 4 to help settle its affairs with creditors.

    In court documents filed Feb. 14, the company asked U.S. Bankruptcy Court Judge Brendan Linehan Shannon to approve a repurchase agreement with Troy, Mich.-based manufacturer and distributor ArvinMeritor Inc., which supplies all the axles for American LaFrance’s emergency-vehicle and heavy-duty vocational vehicle lines.

    American LaFrance owes ArvinMeritor more than $1.2 million and currently has more axles in inventory than it needs for production in the near term, according to court documents.

    Under the proposed deal, Arvin would repurchase the axles already in American LaFrance’s possession for about 92 cents on the dollar, but they would remain at American LaFrance’s facilities. The emergency-vehicle manufacturer would buy them back during the next 12 months as it needed them.

    The agreement anticipates that American LaFrance will repurchase all the axles on hand by the end of the 12-month period. It also anticipates that Arvin will continue to supply unspecified new products to American LaFrance on a cash-on-order basis.

    As part of the deal, American LaFrance would agree to waive any challenge to claims Arvin had previously filed against the company.

    On a related note, South Carolina Electric & Gas Co. has filed an objection to a second motion filed by American LaFrance that would pre-empt the utility’s ability to alter, refuse or discontinue services to the manufacturer’s Summerville facility while it remains in bankruptcy, and that would establish procedures governing the utility’s relationship with American LaFrance outside of its normal billing and service procedures.

    If approved by the court, the motion would also mandate that SCE&G accept a security deposit from American LaFrance equal to its average utility use during a two-week period.

    SCE&G maintains that such a mandate would hardly protect its interests. In its objection the utility said that since June 1, 2007, American LaFrance was 30 days or more in arrears on one of its accounts with the provider, and that another of its accounts was discontinued in December.

    The utility claims it was owed $40,556.46 prior to American LaFrance’s bankruptcy declaration. Its objection to American LaFrance’s request does not spell out an alternative to what has been proposed.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by imafireman View Post
    We are one of the departments waiting patiently to see what is going to happen. We placed our order in late August. It would be nice to know whether or not our order was one of those they are talking about canceling. We ordered a 3000gallon Liberty tanker with a 750 gpm pump. I hope this all works out for everyone.

    Kelly
    Well my opinion is if you can cancel your order. We are the proud owner of a ALF custom pumper with all kinds of problems. We recieved a letter stating the company that works on our truck, no matter if it is a warranty issue will not be doing work on it anymore. And even a few local companies will not touch it. Sooooo what happens now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dday05 View Post
    We recieved a letter stating the company that works on our truck, no matter if it is a warranty issue will not be doing work on it anymore. And even a few local companies will not touch it.
    It's likely your dealer has long since stopped being reimbursed by ALF for warranty work, and they don't feel led to do it for free.

    C6

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    Quote Originally Posted by deputyhunter View Post
    i know that already. It says that in the documents, fire apparatus orders being canceled, about 30 of them

    The question was WHICH orders are they going to cancel?

    If you were one of those 30 departments that had a truck on order, wouldn't you want to know it was NOT going to be built?
    The decision depends on whether you have a performance bond, or pre-paid.

    C6

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    The cutting off the frame and axles doesn't sound right to me. I'm fairly sure that when our MM was being built they built the chassis frame and torque box in Ephrata, shipped it to the chassis/cab plant where the cab and drivetrain was mounted, then drove/piggy backed it, back to Ephrata to get in line. This may not be the same for rear mounts?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Command6 View Post
    It's likely your dealer has long since stopped being reimbursed by ALF for warranty work, and they don't feel led to do it for free.

    C6
    Yeah, we have only had to take our truck to like 4-5 different places to get it fixed due to the fact ALF will not pay them for warranty work or they would have to fight for it. So it's ok to spend a few hundred thousand dollars on a truck from them and have no one that will work on them?.

    So how long before that happens to everyone??

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    Default Alf

    We now return to the program already in progress...
    http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/..._at_plan31172/
    "If it's stupid but it works... It ain't stupid."
    Murphy's law of combat

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    That would be the Shell game at its best. Take care of the big guy and dump on the little guy. 10cents on the dollar. If I were an employee I would keep a close watch on this game. You maybe out and not know it yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAPN22 View Post
    ..
    On a related note, South Carolina Electric & Gas Co. has filed an objection to a second motion filed by American LaFrance that would pre-empt the utility’s ability to alter, refuse or discontinue services to the manufacturer’s Summerville facility while it remains in bankruptcy, and that would establish procedures governing the utility’s relationship with American LaFrance outside of its normal billing and service procedures.

    If approved by the court, the motion would also mandate that SCE&G accept a security deposit from American LaFrance equal to its average utility use during a two-week period.

    SCE&G maintains that such a mandate would hardly protect its interests. In its objection the utility said that since June 1, 2007, American LaFrance was 30 days or more in arrears on one of its accounts with the provider, and that another of its accounts was discontinued in December.

    The utility claims it was owed $40,556.46 prior to American LaFrance’s bankruptcy declaration. Its objection to American LaFrance’s request does not spell out an alternative to what has been proposed.

    That certainly sounds like a typical utility company. Nickle/dime to them and in the grant scheme of the problem to ALF as well. A utility will blow $40k on a fancy SUV for a sales rep or on "marketing" but wants to shut off a customer in order to help them with generate revenue with which to pay their bills. That's what you get with a "regulated" government sponsored monopoly.

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    Question Where is the reply

    So where is the reply from ALF, or they continuing the two step suffle as they have been doing for a long time, I am sorry customer J your truck is going to be a little late due to the emission changes. BTW we don't have any money to buy parts to build your truck. Just have to wait and see or change your order to a company who can deliver.

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    Default Sky - here is your reply - think you might find it interesting!

    Status Update from Bill Hinz about American LaFrance’s New Direction



    "As we enter our fourth week of legal proceedings I would like to provide you with an update. Before I do that however I would like to take this opportunity to thank each and every one of you for staying the course. In these difficult times you have faced many challenges both operationally and emotionally and we know without you there is no American LaFrance.



    I can assure you without a doubt American LaFrance will not only survive, but prosper in the near future. We have the systemic changes in place from material procurement to financial management to ensure we are poised for not only sustainable market presence but to quickly take THE leadership position in both the fire and vocational market.



    In the very new future we will be able to process and build fire apparatus consistently in the 180 day range from order receipt to delivery. Additionally, you will see innovative product designs that will truly differentiate our products from all others and will have tremendous benefits for our customers and make American LaFrance the supplier of choice. I am as anxious as you to realize these operational improvements and new products. Rest assured the team will be working on them diligently to make it happen.



    As I alluded to earlier we are taking this time through the legal proceedings to implement systems and repair those that were broken. I can report to you that our Material Requirements Planning (MRP) system is now up and running. This gives our purchasing team material requirement visibility along with lead times to procure materials as needed for production in a timely manner. This accurate picture of the requirements prevents either a shortage situation which causes production delays or also an overage situation which results in excess inventory and cash that is tied up. Successfully implementing the MRP system will dramatically improve our cycle time and speed us on our way to our 180 day build commitment.



    Along with our MRP system we have successfully implemented our accounts payable system to ensure we have visibility to invoices. This allows us to efficiently process our payables to keep the free flow of parts to the shop floor.



    Also through this process we are retraining our workforce instilling the principles of Lean Manufacturing. This understanding of Lean process will also contribute to our improved throughput and reduced cycle time as well as reduce both material and labor waste.



    These three major improvements are vital to our success and we are well on our way. With that said we know as the Leadership of American LaFrance we must perform. We expect to achieve operational excellence quickly and know that we must do so to meet our customer and employee expectations. Each one of you is a key to our success and we will continue to rely on you as partners into the future.



    On a more immediate issue we will be releasing the delivery schedule by the end of the week of February 25th. I know everyone is very anxious to have this information and we have missed our self imposed two week commitment we had promised. We are working through terms and lead times very successfully with all of our vendors and once that portion is confirmed we can plug in those dates to our MRP system and generate the schedule. It is imperative that we have this information before we publish to ensure we provide a schedule that is accurate and sustainable.



    Again, thanks to everyone for helping American LaFrance through these difficult times as we chart our course for long term success!"



    All the best,









    Bill Hinz

    CEO American LaFrance LLC.
    Last edited by Sandinmyboots; 02-23-2008 at 08:51 AM.

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    Until ALF can get the secured creiditors to agree to the bankruptcy plan they will not be going anywhere.

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    Content deleted by author.
    Last edited by Firefighter807; 07-08-2009 at 09:12 PM.

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    The posted coments from Bill Hinz look like only smoke and mirrors so they do not loose any more dealers.

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    [QUOTE=Firefighter807;923578]Blah... blah... blah...

    Read your history. Anytime a group of people got together whose main motive was to make lots of money in the fire engine business - it failed!
    QUOTE]


    807, please correct me but I beleive your beloved Pierce is one of these groups of people that got together to make lots of money in the fire service. So does that mean there next?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skysthelimit View Post
    The posted coments from Bill Hinz look like only smoke and mirrors so they do not loose any more dealers.

    If they get out of paying there warranty and commissions due the dealers won't stay. If you had it stuck to you how could you in good faith continue to sell the product?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skysthelimit View Post
    The posted coments from Bill Hinz look like only smoke and mirrors so they do not loose any more dealers.
    "Also through this process we are retraining our workforce instilling the principles of Lean Manufacturing. This understanding of Lean process will also contribute to our improved throughput and reduced cycle time as well as reduce both material and labor waste."


    Did they recall their workforce that we didn't hear about??

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    Angry Enough...

    I could care less what they want to do at this point. Do it under another name and let ALF stay in a museum and retain what dignity it has left. These idiots from three different worlds have taken one of the greatest names in apparatus and cheapened it. I know lots of ORIGINAL ALF guys and you know who they work for? Not ALF. I'm glad the creditors have called bull*** on the proposal and they should. Why should they get screwed and let the locusts make all the money. At this point the judge should go ahead and whack it up before anyone else gets screwed. Sorry for my lack of empathy, but what these people have done to the local population and economy ( for the third time in a decade, starting with the Western Star fiasco) is enough to want it to go away. Too many people get displaced and ruined from this crap. Another big corparate Charlie Foxtrot at the expense of the american worker. What's wrong with this industry folks? Shareholders hiring people that know dooksquat about it.
    "If it's stupid but it works... It ain't stupid."
    Murphy's law of combat

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    Quote Originally Posted by pumpertech View Post
    Another big corparate Charlie Foxtrot at the expense of the american worker.


    Hey, I had nothing to do with it!!



    Charlie

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    "Also through this process we are retraining our workforce instilling the principles of Lean Manufacturing."

    I thought the workforce was still on furlough.......

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    Default ALF Bankruptcy

    The recent ALF bankruptcy filing is the result of piling too much additional overhead on an already unprofitable operation. A set of corporate executives with no idea of how to run a "tight ship" spent millions of dollars on a beautiful but very expensive headquarters-production facility, and bought a multi-million dollar computer system they couldn't make work. The solution: hire new executives with experience in making medical equipment and aerospace instruments.

    This fiasco will make a fascinating case for future business students.
    Last edited by muniexec99; 03-02-2008 at 02:36 PM. Reason: correction

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    This is just the latest chapter in the ALF saga.

    Ever since they left Elmira, the company has been like an orphaned child going from one foster home to another.

    It's the plant workers who are affected the most, and there's nothing they can do but hope company execs make the right decisions to keep them on the job.

    C6

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    Post Draging more names down

    No matter what happens to ALF this has played a large toll on the moral of the employees who have been "Furloughed" just a fancy word for layed off and keeping your insurance but you have to pay this back when you come back If you come back. for the past 2.5 months with out a steady paycheck. Tha past management at ALF has run the good name of ALF, RD Murray, LTI, Southren Coach amoung others into the ground, and they still think what they have done will only make them stronger and shoot them into the number 1 position faster. This I will agree with only if the Chapter 11 folks allow then to continue with there plan. This will allow ALF to have little or no debt in 3-4 months time while the companys they owe money to have to lay off there employees so there bills can be paid on time. Saying yes to the plan will only place more people out of work who do not work for ALF.

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