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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by muniexec99 View Post
    The new saying at ALF is "how many ALFers does it take to put a check in the mail?" A bureaucratic nightmare of controls and restrictions has been placed on accounts payable. It takes two to four days for a check to a supplier to be approved, processed, and mailed. Meanwhile, parts needed for truck production can't be shipped until payment is received.

    The problem: lack of leadership and sense of urgency.
    Who in their right mind would accept a check?

  2. #102
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    Is that what they call having ALF on Credit Hold. Don't be the last employee to the bank on payday.

  3. #103
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    Post New Apparatus Bids !

    One of departments here in Woodbridge Twp, N.J. station #12 is sending out bids on a new rescue engine that are due back on March 13 or 14th, they now run E-One & ALF/LTI apparatus, I can't wait to see if any of the two companys return bids with the mess there in, bankruptcy and being sold. This is the rig that is going to be replaced in the photo, I hope they don't start drinking the koolaid and buy from " APPLETON " !
    Last edited by WoodbridgeFFII; 12-07-2008 at 05:21 PM.

  4. #104
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    e-one is not in any mess.

    be interesting to see if alf bids.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputyhunter View Post
    e-one is not in any mess.

    be interesting to see if alf bids.
    E-One is not in any mess? Just what would you call it when a company has three changes of presidents in nearly as many years and a simultaneous mass exodus of its top dealers, a shining success?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputyhunter View Post
    e-one is not in any mess.

    be interesting to see if alf bids.
    I would like to see if ALF can post a bid bond for the full amount of the apparatus ?

  7. #107
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    If we were purchasing at this time bid bonds or performance bonds from either ALF or E-One would not matter. Both companies would be immediately disqualified from the bidding process due to the fragile nature of their existance at this time.

  8. #108
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    Unhappy Hold On we were told.

    ZFD hit the nail on the head, The fire industry may be taking a wait and see before buying from ALF, There have been so many changes at the top since 1998 when the statement was made we are tied to a fast horse hold on things are going to change. They sure did the management ran the company out of money with big fancy offices and the products went into the Sh**ter.

  9. #109
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    i'm still waiting to see any evidence of what any of the alf stuff has to do with e-one.

    i've never heard of e-one having problem with paying bills, dealers or other claims. dealers come and dealers go, nature of the biz. e-one has recently picked up some great dealers, and lost a few as well.

    no bankruptcy or other legal problems.

    a few unhappy customers, find me a company with no unhappy customers and I'll show you a company with no customers.

    1 president change in 4 years, not 2 in 3 years.

    so my opinion still stands, e-one is not in any mess.

    alf however, big problems.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputyhunter View Post
    i'm still waiting to see any evidence of what any of the alf stuff has to do with e-one.

    i've never heard of e-one having problem with paying bills, dealers or other claims. dealers come and dealers go, nature of the biz. e-one has recently picked up some great dealers, and lost a few as well.

    no bankruptcy or other legal problems.

    a few unhappy customers, find me a company with no unhappy customers and I'll show you a company with no customers.

    1 president change in 4 years, not 2 in 3 years.

    so my opinion still stands, e-one is not in any mess.

    alf however, big problems.
    You need to go back and read all the earnings reports over the last couple of years. E-One is losing money and the other Federal Signal subsidiaries have been subsidizing their losses. They have recently split E-One and Bronto into separate divisions which has made the E-One losses more apparent. Prior to that, Bronto was making most of the profits in FS Fire Rescue Division.

    As far as not paying their bills. Many of their dealers will tend to disagree with you. E-One owes many dealers for unpaid warranty claims and this the reason many dealers have left E-One.

    Obviously, when you lose dealers, you lose market share. I believe E-One finished 07 in the high 400's for trucks sold. This is a considerable loss in market share.

    So yes, E-One is in a mess. If they weren't - Federal Signal shareholders would be happy and they wouldn't be for sale.

  11. #111
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    absent the names of any dealers who are owed money, i'll consider your comments about the dealers to be hearsay.

    i didn't say things were peaches and cream, but they are not even close to the alf mess.

    i've never seen e-one unable to bond or have delivery/performance problems.

    actually, the biggest change from the previous (ex-alf) prez to to the current guy is getting back to them actually listening to the dealers and doing the customization and customer service stuff that the fire service demands.

    it truly appears e-one is on the right track, and is not even close to the mess alf finds themselves in.

  12. #112
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    Default Yes Virginia, E-Wont is in trouble!

    Quote Originally Posted by deputyhunter View Post
    i'm still waiting to see any evidence of what any of the alf stuff has to do with e-one.

    i've never heard of e-one having problem with paying bills, dealers or other claims. dealers come and dealers go, nature of the biz. e-one has recently picked up some great dealers, and lost a few as well.

    no bankruptcy or other legal problems.

    a few unhappy customers, find me a company with no unhappy customers and I'll show you a company with no customers.

    1 president change in 4 years, not 2 in 3 years.

    so my opinion still stands, e-one is not in any mess.

    alf however, big problems.
    If E-Wont is not in trouble, what does it mean when your parent company is looking to cut you loose???? You may find the attached PDF file of interest.

    Edited post: I tried to post the PDF file but fh.com claims it is too big. Google a report issued by Keybanc Capitol Markets, issued on February 28, 2008 on Federal Signal.
    Last edited by FWDbuff; 03-04-2008 at 11:36 PM.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  13. #113
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    what does it mean?

    it means that impatient stockholders demand more and more and more profits every quarter. silly them.

    stockholders don't want to hear about changes in engine standards or market conditions, or anything else. and since FedSig is a public company, every little burp is reported.

    it means that its better to dump the company causing the problem then ride out the wave.

    it means its probably better for fire apparatus manufacturers to be owned by people who know a little bit about the business instead of stockholders who only want 2 things, a rise in the value of their shares and a dividend.

    come to think of it, when i look at my retirement portfolio made up of stocks, thats all i want as well. but what might be good for stockholders might not be a good way to run a fire apparatus business.

    so this so-called mess at e-one ( i don't work for them or any fire apparatus builder) is really just business as usual for a fire truck maker in the US, but this is a major calamity for impatient stockholders and investment analysts. if it was your money or my money, you too would want to know why they weren't making gazillions of dollars.

    Oh, but wait, isn't the whole stock market down? oh yea, forgot about that. Every freakin company except the oil companies are loosing money these days. the economy is in a mess. BLAME it all on E-ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    and some folks on the firehouse forums who know less about stock markets and public held companies read those reports and think the sky is falling.

    if you owned e-one and walked out at the end of the year and made $ 200,000...holy crap, you'd be buying beers for a year at the local bar. if the shareholders made $ 200,000 they would be selling the stock cause thats nothing compared to the millions they have invested. its all a matter of perspective.

    bottom line is this is probably a very good thing for e-one. the folks down there are probably thrilled they won't be under the scrutiny of being a public company.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputyhunter View Post
    what does it mean?
    Look, you can put all the lipstick in the world on this pig and everyone here knows it is still a pig.

    Fact, E-One's largest and most successful dealers jumped ship last year.
    Fact, E-One had to back out of a new plant deal due to poor management.
    Fact, E-One's sales have dropped below the sales of companies it used to consistently out perform.
    Fact, they suck so bad their parent company is trying to sell them.

    Of course, Federal Signal doesn't know a single thing about this industry, right? They have only been in it since you weren't even a glimmer in your daddy's eye.

    But, you just go right along pretending everything is fine and dandy. You might convince someone other than yourself. Not likely, but possible.

  15. #115
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    I think we can all be reasonable here and agree that E-One is having some issues, but ALF's issues are much bigger!

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    Look, you can put all the lipstick in the world on this pig and everyone here knows it is still a pig.

    Fact, E-One's largest and most successful dealers jumped ship last year.
    Fact, E-One had to back out of a new plant deal due to poor management.
    Fact, E-One's sales have dropped below the sales of companies it used to consistently out perform.
    Fact, they suck so bad their parent company is trying to sell them.

    Of course, Federal Signal doesn't know a single thing about this industry, right? They have only been in it since you weren't even a glimmer in your daddy's eye.

    But, you just go right along pretending everything is fine and dandy. You might convince someone other than yourself. Not likely, but possible.
    i see a lot of opinions and very few facts.

    the only one of your facts that is 100% fact is that their sales are lower than they were. dealers come and dealers go. plant issue related to parent company. parent company issues related to stock market. being prez or chairman of public company not fun place when sales go down. board listens to stock holders, fires people when value not there, divests company rather than stick it out if they don't divest, they are gone too. there's the fact.

    you don't like e-one, thats cool.

    i got a station full of pierces. and i don't drink the kool aid. pierce riding the wave right now. good for them. oh as far as glimmer in daddys eye, i was there when Ward LaFrance was riding the wave with Dick Gergel in charge. That wave crashed too. FedSig wasn't even born yet. They were a little company in Chicago making 184's and fireball dash lights.

    fact..things could be better are e-one. thats the only fact.

    alf, now there is a mess.
    Last edited by deputyhunter; 03-05-2008 at 10:00 AM.

  17. #117
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    I agree with ChiefSquirrel.

    I do not work in any way in the fire service industry. My only tie to it is through a cousin who is a retired firefighter in Texas.

    There are problems in all industries right now. I work in the real estate service insdustry supplying maangement software and publishing services to REALTOR(R) associations across the country. Try pleasing these guys and gals sometime.

    E-One has its problems, ALF has BIG PROBLEMS. I hope that someone who actually knows the fire service industry excluxively will purchase both of them.

    That way they can both get their marketshare back.

    Especially ALF. ALFs are sentimental to me, the first pumper I ever remember seeing is an ALF Model 700, that was still in front line service in the town I grew up in during the early 70s, while in elementary school.

    Was replaced by a Ford-Boardman in the early 80s. Did not care much for that.

  18. #118
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    Cool ALF and E-One Issues

    I think FirePundit is over reacting to both ALF and E-One market issues. If you look at the airline industry, three or four of the largest airlines are in chapter 11 but the flights are still flying and people are still riding in the planes. They will have to make changes in the operation and some have already left chapter 11 protection. Many of the automakers are losing money and they are still building cars and people are still buying them. (Maybe not as many) They will regroup and some may fail while others will survive.
    Not as sure about ALF due to the amount of money involved.
    E-One is projected to lose 12 mill this year in Fed-Sig. report. Again in the Fed-Sig. report they supposedly had a good 4th quarter and gained back some market share. They introduced 5 or six new products last spring, so who is to say they are water over the dam. I think a key indicator is if the company can supply performance bonds with a bid. The bonding companies are probably a lot smarter about this kind of stuff than we are. We operate on rumors, they operate on facts and numbers. MHO!

  19. #119

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    Default Fire trucks are not airline tickets

    That is true that several airlines have filed for bankruptcy but still flew their planes.

    The difference between airlines and fire truck manufacturers is that airlines are liable to provide you with a service for only a very short period of time.

    When you buy a fire truck, you are entering into a relationship that will last years or decades. The stability of your provider becomes much more important as the length of your relationship goes longer.

    Even if you just limit your relationship to warranty work, it's still a few years. Much longer than the days or weeks you expect an airline to deliver their service of flying you to your destination.

    Good luck,

  20. #120
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    Default Biggest Dealers????

    Biggest Dealers???

    You mean Sunbelt, the biggest has left?
    You mean Hall-Mark has left?
    You mean Fireline has left?
    You mean Greenwood has left?
    Oh you mean Contad left with 18-30 units a year.
    Wow
    You really know what your talking about.

    Since the new management, problems have been few and far between.
    The dealers were not owed money for warrenty claims, the claims were denied from the start. The policy was the problem. Not money. The people running the program were out of touch with the industry.

    See if anyone else leaves.

  21. #121
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    don't tell anyone, but conrad did move from e-one to pierce.

    but why ruin a perfectly good post with one minor correction.

  22. #122
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    The FACT is this is nothing new! E-One has been circling the toilet bowl for five or six years now. Federal Signal has just now decided to flush

  23. #123
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    It appears that ALF has stopped making ambulances... no longer listed on there site

    http://www.americanlafrance.com/inte...?n=21&p=4&s=21

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by dano8696 View Post
    It appears that ALF has stopped making ambulances... no longer listed on there site

    http://www.americanlafrance.com/inte...?n=21&p=4&s=21
    Correct. They have dropped the ambulance line and will be closing the MedicMaster facility in Sanford. Damn shame, we have 11 MedicMasters at work, and they've held up incredibly will, including the one at my station with 186,000 miles on it.
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  25. #125
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    Talking

    You know, some people on here may drink the koolaid. But Deputyhunter seems to have himself a pitcher full of Tang!

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