1. #1
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    Default [B] ALF FILES for BANKRUPTCY [/B]

    ALF has officially FILED for BANKRUPTCY, it's official

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aB_ArnvZTTy8
    Last edited by dano8696; 01-29-2008 at 10:53 AM. Reason: bold title

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    Well we can't say we didn't see it coming.

    I hope they get a viable plan together. Partially because we still have ALF's under warranty ( ), and partly because I would hate to see the longstanding name dissappear. I hope somebody can buy it and/or reorganize it and get it back producing quality trucks.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

    IACOJ

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    Post Bankruptcy !

    It sounds like very bad news for Summerville , the empoyees , fire service , dealers ,sales reps , EVT's. Lets hope they can turn things around in the next 90 days !!

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    Default ALF Bankruptcy

    ALF is not the first fire apparatus company that has filed chapter 11 in the past. Seagrave and Pierce had their dificulties in the past years. I hear through the grapevine E-One is looking to file next. Who knows. Seagrave is going strong and look how well Pierce is doing. With the right people in line with the where with all they need, ALF should survive this also. It is a shame though. I go way back when the 3 big ones were Mack, Seagrave and ALF. The old ALF's were true looking trucks just like the Macks and Seagrave. You always knew what was coming down the road. Good luck to them.

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    Lets hope for the employees sake that they can rebound from this. We all have our favorite apparatus but it is to me all about the employees. not the truck. Good luck to all of you

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    Well said Scott.

    Whether ALF is your brand or not, let's remember there are lots of employees and their families that are impacted by this news.

    C6

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1truckie View Post
    I hear through the grapevine E-One is looking to file next. Who knows.
    That wont happen. E-One had losses last year, but nowhere near ALF's $100 million debt. Plus, their orders for November and December of 2007 were higher than the same months in 2006.

    The writing was on the wall when ALF didnt pay their own dealers for warranty work in a timely fashion, cut sales commissions in half and asked suppliers to be lenient with late payment on bills. Hopefully things will work out, but people are going to lose alot of money in the bankruptcy process.
    Last edited by firepiper1; 01-29-2008 at 01:50 PM.

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    Only time will tell, i guess.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1truckie View Post
    ALF is not the first fire apparatus company that has filed chapter 11 in the past. Seagrave and Pierce had their dificulties in the past years. I hear through the grapevine E-One is looking to file next. Who knows. Seagrave is going strong and look how well Pierce is doing. With the right people in line with the where with all they need, ALF should survive this also. It is a shame though. I go way back when the 3 big ones were Mack, Seagrave and ALF. The old ALF's were true looking trucks just like the Macks and Seagrave. You always knew what was coming down the road. Good luck to them.

    Yes but none of them went out and spent millions of dollars on a new palace "oh sorry factory" either while they were in trouble and I am sure this didnt happen over night and they didnt know it when the new building was planned. Thats why they survived. Sounds like very poor management. If I were an employee I would start updating a resume very soon.

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    Default E-One to file what ??????

    Quote Originally Posted by 1truckie View Post
    ALF is not the first fire apparatus company that has filed chapter 11 in the past. Seagrave and Pierce had their dificulties in the past years. I hear through the grapevine E-One is looking to file next. Who knows. Seagrave is going strong and look how well Pierce is doing. With the right people in line with the where with all they need, ALF should survive this also. It is a shame though. I go way back when the 3 big ones were Mack, Seagrave and ALF. The old ALF's were true looking trucks just like the Macks and Seagrave. You always knew what was coming down the road. Good luck to them.
    E-One next to file?


    E-One is a division of a company called Federal Signal (FSS/NYSE). To file for Bk would result in FS losing ownership in E-One. E-One, despite $12m lost last year, has no debt. And they have real estate they own in Ocala worth over $40m. Not to mention they own a company called Bronto Skylift in Finland that sold over $120m and earned $12-15m last year. While Bronto is just making serious inroads in the north american market, they dominate parts of europe and have a huge market share globaly. That subsidiary of E-One is valued at over $150m. To file bankruptcy you have to have liabilities greater assets and no hope of creating enough income to pay the debt service. Without debt (E-One has had its losses covered by FedSig) or significant liabilities you can't petition the court for bk protection.


    Stay Safe


    P.S. My wife was an accountant on the America West Airlines Bankruptcy in 1991. That company today is known as US Airways. Bankruptcy does help some companies, just not the creditors.

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    E-One is in a much better position than ALF. They actually have a record of being profitable. Their pressure is coming from stockholders in Federal Signal - not creditors or fire departments waiting on trucks that may never come. If E-One is put up for sale, they will have no trouble finding a buyer. If I win the mega-millions lottery, I would make an offer.

    Seagrave is another story though.......

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    Default More on the ALF bankruptcy filing dates

    I found this on the current bankruptcy. Here is the link and story.

    http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4748243&EDATE=


    American LaFrance Files Plan of Reorganization



    - COURT SETS DATE TO EMERGE FROM BANKRUPTCY -

    SUMMERVILLE, S.C., Feb. 3 /PRNewswire/ -- American LaFrance, LLC (the
    "Company" or "ALF") announced today that it has filed its Plan of
    Reorganization ("Plan") and supporting Disclosure Statement. The court has
    set March 3, 2008 to approve the Disclosure Statement and April 9, 2008 to
    approve the confirmation of the Plan. Contemporaneously, the Company filed
    a motion to sell the assets of the Company if the Plan is not approved by
    creditors and confirmed by the bankruptcy court. The Company's related
    motion to establish bidding procedures is set for hearing on February 21,
    2008. The Company has secured an agreement with Patriarch Partners Agency
    Services to serve as the stalking horse bidder for the asset sale.

    The Plan contemplates satisfaction in full of all senior secured debt,
    administrative claims, and priority claims. To address the $84 million of
    contingent and non-contingent general unsecured debt), the Plan provides
    for the assumption by the reorganized company of approximately $27 million
    of such claims and establishing a fund of assets including $5 million of
    cash and litigation assets with an estimated value of $17 million for the
    remainder of the claimants to share pro-rata. Unsecured creditors with
    balances $2,500 or below (or those willing to reduce the claim to $2,500)
    will be paid in full without interest.

    William K. Snyder, the proposed CRO, stated, "This Plan allows the
    Company to clear the deck of contentious litigation, clean up its balance
    sheet and quickly exit bankruptcy; it is anticipated the unsecured
    creditors would much prefer reorganization with a significant return than a
    quick asset sale followed by liquidation of the old company."

    The Plan will allow the Company to reject leases and unprofitable
    contracts so that it may be profitable and to restructure its debt for long
    term success. The Company has announced the closure of its Sanford, FL;
    Lake Mary, FL; Hanahan, SC; Lebanon, PA; Jedburg, SC and Portland, OR
    facilities in order to consolidate and reduce overhead expenses.

    American LaFrance, LLC, through its predecessor entities, is one of the
    oldest fire, rescue, and EMS vehicle manufacturers in the United States,
    dating back to its founding in 1832. The Company operates 8
    manufacturing/servicing facilities and two company-owned vehicle
    dealerships.

    For Further Information Contact: William K. Snyder

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    So would anybody like to geuss who will by the LTI aerial or the cab? As these would be 2 of the bigger assests that are still viable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tower47 View Post
    So would anybody like to geuss who will by the LTI aerial or the cab? As these would be 2 of the bigger assests that are still viable.
    Could see Ferrara making a play for the aerial line for the right price. This would give them their own aerial line with a good reputation.

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    Thumbs up LTI Aerials !

    When fire departments purchase a ALF/LTI aerial ladder- or - tower ladder , they buy there apparatus for the quality of the ladder built in Pa, not for the "Freightliner Eagle chassis cab" with the emblem on the grill !!
    Last edited by WoodbridgeFFII; 12-07-2008 at 05:21 PM.

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    Amen Woodbridge.

    Unfortunately, today's LTI is not the same quality product it was before ALF cheapened it up.

    Many of the ladder platforms in use today can trace their design history back to LTI.

    C6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tower47 View Post
    So would anybody like to geuss who will by the LTI aerial?
    What about Seagrave? Their relationship with RK is finished. They already have a history having purchased Aerialscope. I consider the Scope a specialty market, therefore I don't see it as competing with an existing product line.

    Problem is, I don't think now is a good time for them to be spending that much money.

    There's always Rosenbauer, who could add their own ladder.

    C6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Command6 View Post
    There's always Rosenbauer, who could add their own ladder.

    C6

    They already do. RK; now known as Viper Aerials and Cobra Platforms.

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    Thumbs up Seagrave/LTI MM Platform

    Quote Originally Posted by Command6 View Post
    What about Seagrave? Their relationship with RK is finished. They already have a history having purchased Aerialscope. I consider the Scope a specialty market, therefore I don't see it as competing with an existing product line.

    Problem is, I don't think now is a good time for them to be spending that much money.

    There's always Rosenbauer, who could add their own ladder.

    C6
    If Seagrave purchased LTI, they would offer one heck of a truck with a Marauder II stainless steel cab & body and the quality LTI aerial . It would be a very good selling rig for them !

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    Seagrave is fixing to make their own platforms again, I think Ferrara could jump into the "soul source" crowd though.

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    Don't be surprised if some of the manufactures that already have aerials still bid on LTI in an attempt to limit the competition and/or have a bigger "share of the market".
    With a rep like LTI, I would think it would be a good investment to buy that division and then sell the ladder to other manufactures. They could make a profit off of the ladder while another manufacturer builds the body. Then they could even claim to have a larger "share of the market". (If you know what I mean)
    For now, lets hope for the best.

    SMT
    Last edited by meteoman; 02-04-2008 at 10:56 PM.

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    Someone want to show me where anyone mentioned anything about LTI being sold? The Ephrata plant was not on the list of closures and I have not seen LTI name or plant. In fact I would venture to guess that their aerial products account for a very large portion of ALF's total sales nationwide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jfTL41 View Post
    Someone want to show me where anyone mentioned anything about LTI being sold? The Ephrata plant was not on the list of closures and I have not seen LTI name or plant. In fact I would venture to guess that their aerial products account for a very large portion of ALF's total sales nationwide.

    Well from most accounts on here they are the only reason to buy an ALF.

    Do they sell to other builders?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ha11igan View Post
    Well from most accounts on here they are the only reason to buy an ALF.

    Do they sell to other builders?
    No, they do not. The sad thing is that before ALF made the Eagle chassis their own "sole use" product, the AI, Snorkel brands and LTI aerial lines their own "sole use" product, etc. - they sold quite well. Well, maybe not AI, which I don't think anyone will ever say had a good reputation. Lots of builders were more than happy to put the Eagle chassis under their bodies, General Safety did, Alexis, as I'm sure many others did. Heck, the only Snorkel product left is the Telesqurt, you couldn't buy a new Snorkel or Squrt now if you wanted to (at least that's the best I can tell...)

    Everything is pure speculation obviously at this point, but like some of the arguments state - there needs to be a patient, long term investor that is willing to put a lot of capital into the brand and can tolerate long time frames before even a potential profit comes back. In today's corporate culture, and with the economy behaving badly, let alone the stigma that ALF is going to have to muddle through because of the things happening to various department's with rigs on order, I sure hope someone comes forward that can do this, at the very least for the sake of everyone earning a paycheck building products at any one of the ALF facilities.
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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    I don't know the prior history of the new owners, but it is normal occurrence in todays business world to buy the company and sell off the assets piecemeal for a profit.

    Someone with more time on their hands than me may want to research the tendencies of Patriarch. I am a firm believer in the world of finance that past history is a good indicator of future behavior.

    C6

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