Need help with CAFS skid unit grant award

[smokeydabear3]

Can anyone point me in direction to go with on CAFS skid unit? I did alot of research when I was writing a grant for this and ended up writing a grant asking for $38,000 . I have looked at two other departments that have recieved grants for the same thing. The one department spent $36,500 a couple years ago for theirs and the other spent $43,000 for theirs this spring. I have several quotes in the same ball park with comparable options. This is my problem......I am recieving a grant tomorrow for a reduced amount of $19,000 (what a problem to have I know....) anyway....I can find regular skid units with similar options and NO CAFS in this price range but not with it. I asked the guy i have been working with from the feds about this and 19,000 is what they have as the going rate for skid units, no mention of cafs, just skid unit. I questioned him on purchasing a skid unit without CAFS because thats what I can budget. He said we needed to purchase what we asked for (i knew that) He suggested to accept the ammended amount of 19,000 and then send in quotes to them for what we wrote the grant for and then they might ammend our grant. Anybody have a suggestion? thanks in advance.....

[LVFD301]

Did you specifically mention CAFS when you put in the request?

[smokeydabear3]

yes...specified CAFS in the narrative along with why a CAFS system was needed and the many benifits of CAFS compared to standard foam.....

[sdff1520]

We purchased a CAFS unit 130gpm/55cfm and 200 gal water/15 gal foam tank for ~$36,000. The tank and hose reel w/hose and nozzle was worth roughly $7,200 and the actual CAFS module was about $27,000.

Works great, can't wait to get another!

[smokeydabear3]

COOL....ya the thing that bothers me is that they said they didnt have skid units specified with CAFS on the list....only skid units with average of 19,000 were listed. No other details available. I asked if they could send me the list of available skids at that price but they said they couldn't.

[smokeydabear3]

If any of the guru's of grants would like to read my narrative i would be happy to send it to you...

[onebugle]

It's unfortunate, but you are between a rock and a hard place. The time to deal with a reduction was when you originally recieved the notice. That would have been the time to submit documentation to prove your case.

Since you accepted the reduction, you will pretty much be bound to that amount. Yes, they left you an opening for an amendment, but I wouldn't hold my breath that it would be accepted. At this point you have no other alternative (if they reject the amemndment), except to make up the difference or return the award.

You can send a copy of your narrative through my profile to review. What are you looking for?

[smokeydabear3]

they told me i couldn't send any documentation and that my only choice was to not accept it or accept the ammended amount and then send in documentation showing what the costs were. How can they give out an award that you cant fulfill? I was on the phone with them for at least 30 minutes before we accepted. The person i talked to said they had prices for skid units...not CAFS skid units and that how they come up with the 20,000 skid amount.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

After award is the documented time to send things for some of the DHS folks for some reason. Send them as many quotes as you can get, and probably would be a good idea to send in sets with and without CAFS to show the difference. And leave it to them. You had the right price, they reduced it based on incorrect information. So they can either let you buy the without CAFS or amend it up. You're not stuck since they have already admitted their mistake. Give a shout if you don't get anywhere.

[smokeydabear3]

I really do hope they can see the error in their ways. I brought up the buying something i did not ask for as a hypathetical situation. I really do not see much of a benefit buying a skid unit with out CAFS in our situation. If I had known that if I could have talked to somebody else before accepting their ammendment I would have. The fellow I talked to called me on my cell phone and was very straight forward that either i accept it with the reduction and send the quotes that I had in after the fact for the ammended amount or turn down getting a grant. The guy that called me did the question over the phone and told me to look in my email box when i got home and confirm the email and get it back to him right away. I know people will hate me when I say this is my 4th AFG grant so far for my department and this has been the strangest year by far with this particular grant and a couple others that i have done this year. I have had more trouble with mistakes and glitches on there end that i am surprised that anything is coming together.

[Fighting41NY]

I would suggest you research and quote a Hale MINICAFS PRO. This is a 50cfm unit and it needs a pump to feed it. It is perfect for someone who wants to try out CAFS or to retrofit a brush truck.

My memory is full of useless information, but I quoted one a few years ago for an add-on to our 2004 AFG tanker and it seems like it was less then $10,000? If my memory is good, which I think it is, add this to a $9,000 skid unit and you should have yourself a CAFS skid unit for under $20,000.

http://www.haleproducts.com/Main/Products,145,145.aspx

I'm doing a skid for 2008, so I should probably requote myself. I didn't think DHS would allow $19,000, but that is great news.

[Fighting41NY]

I'd like to see your narrative if you don't mind. My skid narrative is done for FY08, minus the CAFS. I emailed my local Hale guy for a price, I'll post the price tomorrow if I get one.

My Email:
JGibson13@twcny.rr.com

Thanks, Jeff

[mitchkrat]

We were contacted by FEMA for a reduction on our 2 station scba fill station. We offered to send them all the quotes we had which were for the original amount - they told us it was a take it or leave it and mentioned if we tried to appeal they would reconsider our entire grant. Was afraid to go to far since I had screwed up on paper work closing last years grant and my close out was in limbo - also got the feeling that if we made waves that all members of my department could be audited by the IRS for the rest of their lives

They did say that we could purchase a single bottle station instead of a dual fill station even though we had written a dual station system in our narrative. We requested they send us that in writing, which they did so we are now buying a single bottle fill station.

It's hard to really complain - we have been fortunate to get grants 4 years in a row and we have never had a scba fill station - so a single bottle fill station is better than not having one at all.

[smokeydabear3]

be carefull with the add on hale unit. If you have the space and the ability to carry another 500 lbs thats great. I dont know where i would put one on our application. You also will want tot make sure your existing pump capacity will be suffice and you will want to make sure you have room for additional plumbing that will not hinder overall operation.I spent alot of time figuring out what wouls work best for us.Overall size, pump capacity,water tank capacity,overall weight and ease of use.

[LVFD301]

Are you saying that the minicafs adds 500lbs over and above what a
skid unit would add?

As in, a fully functional skid unit comes in at 2k lbs (wild guess)
but a mini cafs pro, fully functional, where you add your own pump and
some plumbing would weigh 2500 lbs?

[Fighting41NY]

The size is 38" x 20" X 37" high. The weight is not spec'd on their website, but it is a pretty hefty looking piece of equipment. It has the foam proportioner on board, so it lightens the skid a little. If you go with the Mini, you could cut the water back by 50 gallons to balance the weight delta if your vehicle GVWR is not sufficient for the extra. Your only other option sounds like nothing CAFS for $19,000 or come up with some cash or a loan.

I'm sure you will find a way to make it work out.

[Limeforever]

We purchased a couple of the PortaCAFS from Firematic, but they require a truck and a proportioner to be close to you to supply water. Any one have any experience with these?

[LVFD301]

I am just a bit confused. The mini cafs is basically the compressor, proportiong system, etc, out of a cafs skid. If you already have a pump
on the unit, and your hoses, how is that more weight than a skid unit with CAFS?

[smokeydabear3]

the cafs unit does weight 500 lbs. If you build a CAFS skid unit the proper way it utilizes 1 engine to drive both compressor and pump. If you just add this unit you have to have room for it. I believe they were talking about buying a skid unit and adding the hale cafs to it. If you look at it together it would be a mess and would diminish your water capacity because it would alot heavier. If you start pricing all of this stuff out and what you actually need to make it work properly you will see what i mean.

[islandfire03]

Have you looked at skid units made by CET pumps? They offer a wide variety of HP & gpm capacity CAFS skid units.
We are in the process of ordering a new brush truck,& both bidders specced a CET. The one we will be buying is powered by a 42 hp kubota diesel with a 275 gpm. pump & a 75 cfm. compressor. this will be mounted with a 350 gallon tank . Don't know the unit price of the skid, but the total pkg. will be around $115k with the new F550 chassis and flatbed with boxes and equipment.
Give them a call , nice folks to talk and deal with.
1-800-567-2719

http://www.fire-pump.com/Default.asp

I do not work for them or benefit from their sales.