Probationary Period

[JoeDokes]

I am on my "Probationary Period" and I have to, by the dept. standards reply to at least half of the calls but I am a full time student at the fire academy in motour falls and I am only home a little of the time or at least in our jurisdiction do they have the authority to kick me out even thought the time spent out of the jurisdiction is fire related. I have been to three calls.

[scfire86]

They probably do. Did you tell them about your obligations prior to them hiring you? If so, they are the ones who have failed.

[JoeDokes]

I am not hired because it is a volunteer dept. but they know that I am taking classes at the fire academy I was just wondering if they could even though it is a volunteer dept.

[charlie82]

Volunteer departments are completely independent, they can do what they want.

[FFYagour88]

im sure if you explain what you are doing the should understand

[Eng34FF]

If the officers are any good, they will work with you. Most departments can't afford to turn away good people. The fact that you are missing calls due to being at a fire academy should be taken into consideration. The training you get at the academy will only help them.

I'm not a fan of requiring a minimum number of calls. Sometimes peoples schedules just don't match up with when the calls go out.

[JoeDokes]

That makes sense so thankyou all of you for helping me

[JackBauer24]

As an officer, I would understand. Although I'd say you can run a lot of calls. I work 60 hrs a week, + EMT classes and whatever other training there is. I'm on 90% of our calls. My suggestion to you would be to do whatever you can. Even if it's not running calls, if they're working on trucks, cleaning trucks, or anything, be sure to help out. If you're there helping (not "supervising") THAT is what will be noticed. In my opinion, being a helpfull firefighter isn't always what you do on the calls, but what you do before and after.

[BrianB35]

Our department logs you as present on runs when you're at class.

[scfire86]

Your situation is one of the primary reasons why volunteer departments have problems keeping members. You have a life outside the firehouse that requires you to be elsewhere when a call might be received.

[ndvfdff33]

Our department logs you as present on runs when you're at class.

That's kind of weird. Marking somebody on scene when they are infact not even there. We would get in major crap if somebody pulled that sort of thing.

[atrea1]

You do not say how big the department is or if it is fully volunteer with no paid firefighters. I would think one of the reasons for this requirement of 50% of the calls is due to non active volunteers. I agree with washing trucks, attending training, and doing odd tasks to show that you will participate after your probation period. Most volunteer depts do not follow their requirements or by-laws 100% but use these laws as a standard operating guideline. My dad told me when you volunteer there is two lines to sign up in. The first line is for volunteers that will do the work and the second line is for the ones that will take credit for the work done. My dad told me to stand in the first line cause its not as crowded. good luck.

[scfire86]

Our department logs you as present on runs when you're at class.

That is bizarre. I was under the impression that one had to show up to be onscene. Firefighting is one of the few professions that doesn't allow for telecommuting nor can it be shipped overseas to India.

[JoeDokes]

Yeah I do help out I go there and I sweep and mop the floor and other things to kinda help if there were any public gathering I also try and sort out and organize the cupboards and stuff so I try and do my part and I like to do them when no one is there so I do not get that treatment of I am a better person for it I really am not in it for the glory no not at all I just want to help my community out in any way possible and if that means sweeping and mopping on my free hours then I guess that is what my service is. I think the world has pumped the life of a firefighter up to be a suspenceful life with a fire around every corner, dont get me wrong I love my part it is just that there was this mindset when I first joined that it would be that but now I have realized the realty.

[dadman]

Talk to your Chief and officer(s) and tell them the situation. They may already know your circumstances and will make allowances.

The idea of minimum calls was kicked around recently, to go along with previous standing requirements for training and meeting attendance.

I would rather see members show up for training, or make an effort on their own to do schedule make-up training. Meetings and special details I wouldn't expect 100% attendance.
Runs don't always space themselves out evenly. Last year, most of ours seemed to happen during the day when most are at work.
There may be a minimum number of runs figure you can calculate by looking at work schedules and run times.
With run participation, the officers need to evaluate whether members are making an effort to turn out. Common sense and word of mouth can tell you real quick if you've got dead weight on the roster.

You can end up with situations where someone can attend training and/or meetings and doesn't come to runs. Knowledgable but doesn't show when it's crunch time.
Or, they don't go to meetings/training but go to runs and don't know what there doing. Have to lead them around by the hand.
And, you can have members who can balance all three.

Don't be dead weight and an empty unit number.

[mdcook]

JoeDokes, since you said you are going to the New York State Fire Academy in Montour Falls, if the officers in your department are so unreasonable that they do kick you out for missing calls while training as a fire fighter, may be that is not the department for you.
As stated above, with the situation nation-wide so desparate for people willing to volunteer to be firefighters, I would certainly hope that your chief would like to have some one with an education on his/her department.

[Catch22]

That's kind of weird. Marking somebody on scene when they are infact not even there. We would get in major crap if somebody pulled that sort of thing.

"Present" and "on scene" can be two different things. If they have a policy to do so, no one should be getting in "major crap."

It's possible they mark them as "present" to account for run quotas, yet they are not listed as "on scene" for the official run report.

When I wrote our policies for attendance (not yet approved by the board), I specified that any member that's gone on district sponsored/paid out-of-town training or business gets credit as attending any calls, meetings, or in-house training that occurs during their absence..

[ndvfdff33]

"Present" and "on scene" can be two different things. If they have a policy to do so, no one should be getting in "major crap."

It's possible they mark them as "present" to account for run quotas, yet they are not listed as "on scene" for the official run report.

When I wrote our policies for attendance (not yet approved by the board), I specified that any member that's gone on district sponsored/paid out-of-town training or business gets credit as attending any calls, meetings, or in-house training that occurs during their absence..

He didn't specify dept training or anything like that. He just said in class. How do you know he wasn't talking about University. Even if it is Dept training I still don't understand how you can be accounted for even if your in another town.

To me when somebody says present on runs that means they are at the scene, which is what that poster said.

[Frmboybuck]

I took it the same way 22 did, fire dept training/classes get credit for the call. In our dept if you show up, you get credit even if you arent on scene.

[Catch22]

He didn't specify dept training or anything like that. He just said in class. How do you know he wasn't talking about University. Even if it is Dept training I still don't understand how you can be accounted for even if your in another town.

To me when somebody says present on runs that means they are at the scene, which is what that poster said.

Actually, he did clarify where he was going to school "the fire academy in motour falls."

Also, the person who made the post in regards to their department showing them as "present" stated that word, not "on scene." Perhaps it's cutting hairs, but it depends on how they keep track of it.

The example I gave was how my policy reads and used it as a possibility of how theirs may read. It's nothing other than a means to make sure people who miss calls for legitimate reasons don't get hammered by attendance quotas.

If you're gone from work for training or business that they send you on, or for training that benefits the company/department (which is some companies/departments count the same way), do they count you as absent and make you use sick time? I seriously doubt it. I know if my career department sends me to training, I'm counted as being "present" at work, even though I'm not at the station. Same theory here.