40 years old and wanting to become a firefighter?

[somebody509]

So how can departments (like FDNY, Chicago, Boston.) have cutoff ages for testing?

Because it's not illegal if age effects the quality of work(it might vary from state-to-state)...Obviously most 40-50 year olds aren't in as good of shape as the 20-30 year olds..

[McDonaldMike45]

Dennis you are correct.. Its not the age.....Lawsuits against the city? ... they didnt get high scores.....plain and simple... The other guys that had lawsuits against the city from the 95 list....MOST of them didnt pass the test and said it was too hard...Are you kidding me? haha.. I cant believe the city gave them a job and back pay to 95...ALSO they were giving the right to test for promotions.. thats crazt.

[nameless]

I think if you did some research, you would find literature on the subject of the difficulty in finding quality Gen-X'ers and the extra effort it takes to deal with them on the job. I have not read anything specific to the fire service, but I have read articles in regards to law enforcement and the military. I used them in a project I completed when I was finishing my degree several years ago. I don't have them anymore. The articles speak for themselves. I don't buy into everything said about Gen X'ers, but the articles make sense.

If you want I can write reports on why men, women, whites, blacks, latinos, asians, italians, and any other demographic you can think of would be bad employees but that doesn't make it right. I'm sure the Klan can forward you their research on blacks, jews, and catholics. Its merely a skewed research and basing your opinions of an entire group off of that is very silly. Not to mention it would make for a very easy lawsuit against the agency.

However, like someone else said Gen Xers were born in the 60s, 70s. So your research shows these 40 year olds, which you beleive to be awesome additions to the department, actually aren't. Woops

It is no more of a prejudice than someone advocating that 40 yoa guys have no right to the job because they didn't test enough.

Did I support this position? if you'll refer yourself back to my comments on the lawsuit its self you'll see it has nothing to do with age.

[Catch22]

I just dont understand how 40 year old men think its right for them to get the job.. Why havent they tested for other Dept? They dont want to be on the job that bad I guess... just doesnt seem fair to give the job to a 40 year old, when you have tons of young people out there waiting to get a job.... I also hear that another group of guys from the 1995 list sued the city to get hired, saying the test was too hard. I hear they won and got hired and recieved back pay from 1995.... i am noit sure how true it is, just something I have heard.... If its true....WHATS THIS WORLD COMMING TO!! I wouldnt want to work with these guys...

I've read through this article twice now. Not once can I find anywhere where it says that the plantiffs are suing because of anything to do with their age. Of all the questions that come to my mind, not a one of them had to do with age. I also don't see where it says, or even insinuates, that these men think they deserve the job because of their age.

Judging by your attitude and prejudice, I have serious doubts any of them would want to work with you, either.

What's driving my curiosity is why Chicago is hiring off a 10+ year-old test?

[Jonathan Bastian]

So how can departments (like FDNY, Chicago, Boston.) have cutoff ages for testing?

Chicago doesn't have a cutoff (or at least didn't). Frequently, the age cutoff is an issue of pensions, not performance. Illinois has a minimum retirement age of 55. If you join at 45 and retire at 65, the pension makes less money on you than if you start at 25 and retire at 55.

[Jonathan Bastian]

My Gripe isnt really the age thing I guess. I dont mean to put out there that a 40 year old cant do the job. I was purely crying ( haha ) about the guys having a lawsuit against the city which is in tearn delaying other people from getting processed and getting hired.. The thing about the Chicago area is there are many depts that get as many if not more fires per company that Chicago.... ( MAywood..Harvey...Cal City..Cicero..Gary IND..Joilet. ) So there are many depts that they could test for. Why have they waited on a list since 1995 and not tested.. Most people from the Chicago area I think would some what agree with me.. Its hard growing up in a city and not having a chance in hell at getting a job because the list has been out there for 11 years, and then they start to factor in race....it just gets a little old after a while... I have traveled to other citys and states to try and get hired.. I guess its just hard to watch someone take one test..wait 11 years...then sue the city when they dont get hired.. How bad did they want the job?

You're still doing an awful lot of complaining without any explaining. I'd guess you're jealous...you didn't get on the job with CFD, right?

[catscratch]

This might be an off the wall thought but I'll put it out there anyways.

If a department had two equally qualified canidates for the job, lets say a 40 year old and a 25 year old, wouldn't they want to hire the 25 year old simply based on the years of service that individual could contribute to the department?

Departments spend a great deal of money training canidates, I believe the recent LA City article said that they spend $82,000 dollars per recruit in the academy. After investing all this time and money into a canidate you would think that they would value someone who will be around for the next thirty years.

Also, even though many older canidates may be in excellent shape and in many cases better shape than younger canidates, the simple fact is that as employees get older there will be more health issues that occur.

Finally, if you were to put two canidates in front of me with very similiar qualifications and testing scores, the fact enters my mind that the 25 year old has achieved all of this much faster than the 40 year old.

I don't intend to bash older canidates whatsoever, there are plenty on the job that are great firefighters, just throwing a few thoughts into the mix.

[ffbam24]

Age discrimination

[kfed]

This might be an off the wall thought but I'll put it out there anyways.

...

Finally, if you were to put two canidates in front of me with very similiar qualifications and testing scores, the fact enters my mind that the 25 year old has achieved all of this much faster than the 40 year old.

I don't intend to bash older canidates whatsoever, there are plenty on the job that are great firefighters, just throwing a few thoughts into the mix.

This is discouraging thinking to me and makes me wonder how many civil service & hiring personnel think like this. This shows that age discrimination does come into play even though there is policy against it. I think I am stronger, faster and work smarter than ever in my late 30s. I know 20-something persons who are in the fire service with medical conditions I can only hope never to have to deal with. Many have really messed up their backs, shoulders, knees already and not even to age 30. So age alone is not acceptable in determining longevity of career and useful contributions; if I work hard to remain strong and live a healthy lifestyle, I work smart, I save you tons of money on workman's comp claims, etc. Just my own $.02.

[nameless]

so let me get this straight, thinking younger candidates have strong points over older candidates is age discrimination, but thinking older candidates have strong points over young candidates is fine and dandy?

That sounds like a double standard to me

[Fitguy51]

Catch22, why was wondering why there was a 11yr old list. I would expect that a new test would be given at least every 5 yrs, if not sooner, at which time the old list becomes invalidated.

[CALFFBOU]

"You can't treat people like this," said Murphy, 40, whose grandfather, father and uncle were firefighters. "You can't string people along for over a year. ... All we're asking for is a little respect."

Why I sometimes can not stand the children of Firefighters. They always think they pre-earned some salt or paid their dues already.

I dont care if your Dad, Mom or Grandparents previously served. It doesnt count on your resume.

Earn your own salt and tell you own stories.

[hwoods]

Why I sometimes can not stand the children of Firefighters. They always think they pre-earned some salt or paid their dues already.

I dont care if your Dad, Mom or Grandparents previously served. It doesnt count on your resume.

Earn your own salt and tell you own stories.

I only partly agree with you here, because of one point. The desire to be a Firefighter in a Firefighting family is usually overwhelming, and, to put it bluntly, if I had two Candidates to pick from, with one being the 3rd, 4th, or 5th generation in a "Fire Family" and the other one just looking for a job, the "Family" connection will get hired. As a 3rd Generation Firefighter who has Kids and Grandkids on already, I kinda know how it works.

[ffbam24]

While I can understand that carrying on a "family tradition" is great, I think this still falls into nepotism. No offense intended to Harve, but just because someone is related doesn't make them the better choice automatically. In part to this case, expecting it automatically is conceited.

Plenty of people out there have the strong desire to be hired that are first generation. They just didn't have the opportunity/genes/whatever to be born into a firefighting family.

[hwoods]

While I can understand that carrying on a "family tradition" is great, I think this still falls into nepotism. No offense intended to Harve, but just because someone is related doesn't make them the better choice automatically. In part to this case, expecting it automatically is conceited.

Plenty of people out there have the strong desire to be hired that are first generation. They just didn't have the opportunity/genes/whatever to be born into a firefighting family.

Certainly no offense taken, The "Desire" rather than the "Looking for a Job" is what I was relating to. Although I mentioned the Family, I didn't mention the other end of the chain, where someone with "Family Tradition" (No, not You Hank Jr.) behind them simply has no interest in the Fire Service at all. Seen those types too....... As to nepotism, You get hired thru a competitive process, you have to be able to place well on the list, and that is controlled by a Personnel Department that has no ties at all to the Fire Department. If you don't do well, "Family" is meaningless.........

[CALFFBOU]

Plenty of people out there have the strong desire to be hired that are first generation. They just didn't have the opportunity/genes/whatever to be born into a firefighting family.

Bingo- Make it even for every Candidate.

[BKDRAFT]

Plenty of people out there have the strong desire to be hired that are first generation. They just didn't have the opportunity/genes/whatever to be born into a firefighting family.

Right here brother.

[Rjervis]

Ok. This whole age deal is B.S. I am 37 and just finished my probationary period. I served 4 yrs as a marine and can out perform most guys on my department. I will obviously be 40 in a couple yrs but you wouldn't know it by meeting me. I stay in shape and bust my *** everyday that I'm on shift. I won't retire until late fifties, do I like that no wish I would have found my career earlier but you all know how competitive this career is. That said if you can pass the written and physical I don't see a reason why age matters. I mean hell my Dad had ran 3 Ironmans in his late 50s and two of them he had cancer and still kicked ***

[FyredUp]

I got hired by my frst FD at 31, then by the second at 39. I am not the oldest to be hired by the second FD either we have had a couple of people in their 40's get hired.

If you can pass all the tests and have what they are looking for, and perhaps more than a younger candidate then there is no reason not to hire the older candidate.

[Rjervis]

Ok. This whole age deal is B.S. I am 37 and just finished my probationary period. I served 4 yrs as a marine and can out perform most guys on my department. I will obviously be 40 in a couple yrs but you wouldn't know it by meeting me. I stay in shape and bust my *** everyday that I'm on shift. I won't retire until late fifties, do I like that no wish I would have found my career earlier but you all know how competitive this career is. That said if you can pass the written and physical I don't see a reason why age matters. I mean hell my Dad had ran 3 Ironmans in his late 50s and two of them he had cancer and still kicked ***