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    Post Harrisburg Mack 75' Scope

    Anyone have information on the refurb/remount of the Harrisburg,Pa Mack Aerialscope project.Do you know what builder has the contract, Seagrave , Pierce , Advantage , Etc ?
    Last edited by WoodbridgeFFII; 02-09-2008 at 12:37 PM.

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    Pierce got the bid. Harrisburg also received a grant for a new Pierce wagon as well.

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    Pierce got the work. Very bare bones rebuild, on a flat roof Arrow XT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAH216 View Post
    Pierce got the work. Very bare bones rebuild, on a flat roof Arrow XT.
    Do you know how much the refurb will (cost), I am trying to gather info to present at a future board meeting !
    Last edited by WoodbridgeFFII; 02-09-2008 at 01:19 PM.

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    I was told but cannot remember off the top of my head the exact figure. I'd say close to $600k

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAH216 View Post
    Pierce got the work. Very bare bones rebuild, on a flat roof Arrow XT.
    That is what we would be looking for a stock chassis with only a few options, painted front steel bumper , Q2 siren , 8K gen, Led lighting !

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    Instead of always trying to get your information from this (often unreliable) forum, why not go directly to the SOURCE?

    Harrisburg Fire Bureau
    City of Harrisburg
    McCormick Public Services Center Suite 220
    123 Walnut Street
    Harrisburg, PA 17101-1681

    Phone: 717.255.6464
    Fax: 717.255.6448
    Fire & Safety Services, Ltd.
    200 Ryan St.
    South Plainfield, NJ 07080

    Phone: 1.800.400.8017
    Fax: 1.908.412.0513

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    Default harrisburg

    why would you ask the Pierce dealer 160 miles away in NJ when there is a Pierce dealer 25 miles away in lancaster pa who covers that area?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chauffer6 View Post
    Instead of always trying to get your information from this (often unreliable) forum, why not go directly to the SOURCE?
    I have talked to Fire & Saftey, and they have no information on any Pierce Aerialscope refurbs/remounts. They have never bid on this type of project before. I may try calling Glick Fire the dealer for the state of Pa. or Pierce customer service !

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    Your best bet, would be to contact Glick for an accurate price. My department used the Harrisburg drawing as a starting point for what we wanted. The Birdsboro rig was priced at about $550k, but that was several years ago already. Needless to say, when we got our ballpark quote for a basic no frills rebuild, we were shocked. The price has gone up considerably, and they are no longer offering the best chassis for it IMO; which was the Dash. The Arrow XT is nice, but I don't like how it's either flat roof or you jump to a 10" raised roof. Why restrict the scrub area of the tower by putting a raised roof on it?? The AC units are hideous.

    The biggest problem I can see, is there really is no true competition for Pierce when it comes to Aerialscope rebuilds. Seagrave doesn't really seem to like messing with rebuilds they'd rather sell you a new one.

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    Post To: JAH216

    Quote Originally Posted by JAH216 View Post
    Your best bet, would be to contact Glick for an accurate price. My department used the Harrisburg drawing as a starting point for what we wanted. The Birdsboro rig was priced at about $550k, but that was several years ago already. Needless to say, when we got our ballpark quote for a basic no frills rebuild, we were shocked. The price has gone up considerably, and they are no longer offering the best chassis for it IMO; which was the Dash. The Arrow XT is nice, but I don't like how it's either flat roof or you jump to a 10" raised roof. Why restrict the scrub area of the tower by putting a raised roof on it?? The AC units are hideous.

    The biggest problem I can see, is there really is no true competition for Pierce when it comes to Aerialscope rebuilds. Seagrave doesn't really seem to like messing with rebuilds they'd rather sell you a new one.
    Seagrave's pricing is only $ 100,000 less than a total new apparatus, what was the ballpark quote for the basic no frills rebuild from Pierce. Also do you have a 75' Aerialscope rebuild drawing that you can send me ?

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    Go to Hershey PA Fire Dept....then go under "Files" on the left side of the page...there you will see photos from start through 12.19.07 on their rebuild...Pierce is refurbing their scope on an ArrowXT....here is the link to the last update.

    http://yourfirstdue.com/manager/data..._17decv07_.pdf

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    Here are pics of the completed scope'

    http://www.hersheyfire.org/history.html?view=1&id=6652

    Looks good!

    Not a Pierce kool-aid drinker, but personally I like the Pierce scope re-furbs better than seagrave

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    Default Scope Refurbs

    Just for ha ha's what is so great about Pierce rebuilding the scope? I don't get it. what is so special about them in place of the OEM? If it is money then that is a poor excuse for using them. The scope is a very specially designed piece of equipment. So far, I have only seen on this forum that price is driving this and it doesn't make sense. The Scope has always been and always will be pricie. You need to pay for the top of the line and thats it. A town in my area has a scope that dates back to the early 80's and was redone by another re-furb builder. The truck wound up back at the OEM to get the boom work that needed to be done again. So who won???? And price drove that re-furb. I also seem to remember that an aluminum body on a scope wasn't going to be available because of the flexing the chassis does since the frame rails are the torque box and it could cause the body to crack. I know the flexing happens full well because I have seen many Scopes operate and I am sure their are alot of people on this forum that can attest to that. I hope that for the FD's that had Pierce rebiuld their scopes won't have that problem. It seems to me that for another 100,000 grand give or take, you should go to the OEM and get it done by the experts. JMHO. Don't mean to stir the pot. Thats not my point. I just seem to think that the OEM should be doing this kind of work. This is a tremendous amount of work to consider others just because of price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dano8696 View Post
    Looks good!
    I like the head-on shot... paint and striping around the grill look sharp.
    God Bless America!Remember all have given some, but some have given all.
    Google Is Your Friend™Helpful forum tip - a "must see" if you're new here
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    Post Baker is the OEM !

    Quote Originally Posted by 1truckie View Post
    Just for ha ha's what is so great about Pierce rebuilding the scope? I don't get it. what is so special about them in place of the OEM? If it is money then that is a poor excuse for using them. The scope is a very specially designed piece of equipment. So far, I have only seen on this forum that price is driving this and it doesn't make sense. The Scope has always been and always will be pricie. You need to pay for the top of the line and thats it. A town in my area has a scope that dates back to the early 80's and was redone by another re-furb builder. The truck wound up back at the OEM to get the boom work that needed to be done again. So who won???? And price drove that re-furb. I also seem to remember that an aluminum body on a scope wasn't going to be available because of the flexing the chassis does since the frame rails are the torque box and it could cause the body to crack. I know the flexing happens full well because I have seen many Scopes operate and I am sure their are alot of people on this forum that can attest to that. I hope that for the FD's that had Pierce rebiuld their scopes won't have that problem. It seems to me that for another 100,000 grand give or take, you should go to the OEM and get it done by the experts. JMHO. Don't mean to stir the pot. Thats not my point. I just seem to think that the OEM should be doing this kind of work. This is a tremendous amount of work to consider others just because of price.
    I am a Seagrave & Pierce fan, cost is one of the major issues in todays fire truck purchases. We would like to get the most bang for the buck, a seagrave rebuild /remount is in the range of $ 800,000 with the cost of materials going up every day. Our board members will not ok a refurb that is almost the cost of a brand new 75'-81' tower ladder that can last for 25 years in service !

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1truckie View Post
    Just for ha ha's what is so great about Pierce rebuilding the scope? I don't get it. what is so special about them in place of the OEM? If it is money then that is a poor excuse for using them. The scope is a very specially designed piece of equipment. So far, I have only seen on this forum that price is driving this and it doesn't make sense. The Scope has always been and always will be pricie. You need to pay for the top of the line and thats it. A town in my area has a scope that dates back to the early 80's and was redone by another re-furb builder. The truck wound up back at the OEM to get the boom work that needed to be done again. So who won???? And price drove that re-furb. I also seem to remember that an aluminum body on a scope wasn't going to be available because of the flexing the chassis does since the frame rails are the torque box and it could cause the body to crack. I know the flexing happens full well because I have seen many Scopes operate and I am sure their are alot of people on this forum that can attest to that. I hope that for the FD's that had Pierce rebiuld their scopes won't have that problem. It seems to me that for another 100,000 grand give or take, you should go to the OEM and get it done by the experts. JMHO. Don't mean to stir the pot. Thats not my point. I just seem to think that the OEM should be doing this kind of work. This is a tremendous amount of work to consider others just because of price.
    Money is a poor excuse? What Fantasyland do YOU live in, Long Island?

    First of all, Seagrave is NOT the OEM. Their acquisition of Aerialscope is very recent history.

    Secondly, Pierce has had decades of experience building rigs, including many chassis for other manufacturer's aerial devices. Matter of fact, Pierce started life as a manufacturer of bodies for other companies. Just look at how many Snorkel and LTI products from the 70s and 80s were mounted on Pierce chassis.

    Thirdly, most (if not all) torque boxes are either integral with the frame rails, or are fastened to the frame in such a manner that they may as well be integrated. There is very little difference between a Scope and a regular midmount tower ladder in that respect.

    Lastly, Pierce strips these units down to every single tiny nut, bolt and washer and COMPLETELY refurbishes or replaces every component before reassembly.

    You make it like Pierce is some new kid on the block, fly by night outfit. Whether or not you (or anyone else) likes Pierce, I think even their harshest critics would acknowledge the fact that they've been building decent rigs for a long period of time. Otherwise they surely would not be around this long. Yes, they have their faults, no manufacturer is perfect...not even your favorite one. There is plenty of Kool-Aid to go around, and believe it or not, it's NOT all Pierce flavored!


    EDIT: I just checked your brief post history, and it's pretty obvious you're drunk on Seagrave Punch. Guess I wasted my time here.
    Last edited by Chauffer6; 02-10-2008 at 08:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodbridgeFFII View Post
    I have talked to Fire & Saftey, and they have no information on any Pierce Aerialscope refurbs/remounts. They have never bid on this type of project before. I may try calling Glick Fire the dealer for the state of Pa. or Pierce customer service !
    Yeah try Glick, and make some calls to the depts you know already have these PierceScopes. I know you've been keeping track of them. I just don't want to see you getting misinformation from this site, which is sadly far too often what happens with all the "experts" running around here (I wonder how many of them are really 15 year old kids who read way too much sales hype and literature?). I've been following your posts for quite some time now as far as your dept's quest to get that Scope refurbed, and I want to one day see you make a thread with a happy ending!

    PS - What is the deal with F&S blowing you off like that? They should be picking up the phone and calling Pierce to find out more info for you. Then again, I'm not sure the extent of your involvement with F&S. If you're not an existing customer and you're just cold calling them, and you really don't have the final say in what happens with your rig, I can kinda see them not fully engaging you. I think you're going to have to sit down with your truck committee and have them formally request F&S send a salesman to talk with you.
    Last edited by Chauffer6; 02-10-2008 at 08:52 PM.

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    The Harrisburg rig will be a good test for Pierce and these scope rebuilds. Tower 1 is a busy piece that gets used hard and put away wet. The KMEs that they acquired a few years back are large and have access issues making it down narrow city streets and setting up.

    The XT with a flat roof is probably the perfect cab for that rig. They don't need a parade piece.

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    Quote Originally Posted by salvage View Post
    The Harrisburg rig will be a good test for Pierce and these scope rebuilds. Tower 1 is a busy piece that gets used hard and put away wet. The KMEs that they acquired a few years back are large and have access issues making it down narrow city streets and setting up.

    The XT with a flat roof is probably the perfect cab for that rig. They don't need a parade piece.
    Is the old Harrisburg Aerialscope at the Pierce refurb center , did any production start on the chassis or boom ?

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    I thought they already had it back.

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    Post To: Chauffer6

    Quote Originally Posted by Chauffer6 View Post
    Yeah try Glick, and make some calls to the depts you know already have these PierceScopes. I know you've been keeping track of them. I just don't want to see you getting misinformation from this site, which is sadly far too often what happens with all the "experts" running around here (I wonder how many of them are really 15 year old kids who read way too much sales hype and literature?). I've been following your posts for quite some time now as far as your dept's quest to get that Scope refurbed, and I want to one day see you make a thread with a happy ending!

    PS - What is the deal with F&S blowing you off like that? They should be picking up the phone and calling Pierce to find out more info for you. Then again, I'm not sure the extent of your involvement with F&S. If you're not an existing customer and you're just cold calling them, and you really don't have the final say in what happens with your rig, I can kinda see them not fully engaging you. I think you're going to have to sit down with your truck committee and have them formally request F&S send a salesman to talk with you.
    It's a long story between Fire & Saftey and our department, we do not have any Pierce built apparatus at our station. About 10 to 12 years ago they had worked on a few of the trucks doing repairs & maint, when one of our Ex Vol Chiefs was a " EVT " on there staff and had then left that job to start his own repair business. So I think there is still some kind of friction between both groups. Most of the bigger repair jobs are now done by Seagrave Sales & Service , JB Hunt , Campbell Supply !!
    Last edited by WoodbridgeFFII; 02-11-2008 at 08:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodbridgeFFII View Post
    I have talked to Fire & Saftey, and they have no information on any Pierce Aerialscope refurbs/remounts. They have never bid on this type of project before. I may try calling Glick Fire the dealer for the state of Pa. or Pierce customer service !
    Who'd you talk to over at Fire & Safety??? We've dealt with them for years and very responsive... and since this sounds like a refurb, not a repair, it wouldn't be the service department that did it, so it wouldn't matter about the history between you ex-chief and anyone there... it'd be through their sales group would bid it for work at Pierce refurb in WI... I don't think Glick can do it for Pierce because I think they are only allowed PA...

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldDawg13 View Post
    Who'd you talk to over at Fire & Safety??? We've dealt with them for years and very responsive... and since this sounds like a refurb, not a repair, it wouldn't be the service department that did it, so it wouldn't matter about the history between you ex-chief and anyone there... it'd be through their sales group would bid it for work at Pierce refurb in WI... I don't think Glick can do it for Pierce because I think they are only allowed PA...
    Glick fire can not sell to any departments out of there territory, we are only looking for information and a drawing of the Harrisburg aerialscope refurb !

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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodbridgeFFII View Post
    Glick fire can not sell to any departments out of there territory, we are only looking for information and a drawing of the Harrisburg aerialscope refurb !
    Yeah, I would think either Glick or even Fire & Safety could get that info... if you talk to Fire & Safety, go through the sales group, not service.

    Those progress photos were neat... I nice to watch your truck go from beginning to end like that... I know that Fire & Safety has those done on the rigs that are ordered through them too... buddy of mine forwarded some to me on their unit.

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