1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    232

    Default Convincing the City Council to convert to Storz

    Looking for someone who has recently won this battle (read money) for convincing the city council & 1 man water department that we should stop buying threaded steamer port hydrants and pay for upgrade to storz fitting on new hydrants. We probably install only a couple a year, but there has been some recent housing development still using the old standards. Of course the water man thinks he invented the water system and is a old codger who is relunctant to accept change. Our supply hose is all storz 5 inch. Let me honestly say the city has NO money. I am looking for avenues to obtain grants to change the existing threaded hydrants to storz adaptors. It's a no brainer to the voly FD.

    Anyone have some documentation about why this is such an overwhelmingly good idea, that even our city council can only nod in concurrence? Any help will be appreciated. Public speaking is not my strong point.

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hinesfire View Post
    Looking for someone who has recently won this battle (read money) for convincing the city council & 1 man water department that we should stop buying threaded steamer port hydrants and pay for upgrade to storz fitting on new hydrants. We probably install only a couple a year, but there has been some recent housing development still using the old standards. Of course the water man thinks he invented the water system and is a old codger who is relunctant to accept change. Our supply hose is all storz 5 inch. Let me honestly say the city has NO money. I am looking for avenues to obtain grants to change the existing threaded hydrants to storz adaptors. It's a no brainer to the voly FD.

    Anyone have some documentation about why this is such an overwhelmingly good idea, that even our city council can only nod in concurrence? Any help will be appreciated. Public speaking is not my strong point.

    Honestly...I've used storz in the past and in my current Dept we don't use any hermaphrodic (I love it any time I can work that word into context) conections. I don't see any pressing reason as to why you'd want to spend the money.

    FTM-PTB

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    MemphisE34a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Memphis, TN - USA
    Posts
    2,531

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hinesfire View Post
    Anyone have some documentation about why this is such an overwhelmingly good idea, that even our city council can only nod in concurrence?
    If your city is broke and has no money as you state, it is not an overwhelmingly good idea. Why would you want to incur the cost of changing your fire hydrants when an adaptor from threads to storz will work just fine.

    And yes, we use 5" hose with stoz connectors and threaded hydrants. Never been an issue.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    We did it, bust as you said, it costs money. The city changed the ordinance to require 5" Stortz steamer connections and our 2 1/2" connections are a certain thread. All private hydrants must be updated at the cost of the owner and any new hydrant installed in the public system must meet the reuirements. The city then purchased enough adapters to change all of the existing hydrants. I believe they may have also required that all new FDC's on buildings must be 5" Stortz......
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
    IACOJ

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    99

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    And yes, we use 5" hose with stoz connectors and threaded hydrants. Never been an issue.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ditto.

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber
    fyrmnk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    519

    Default

    Ditto as well. We have some 4" and some 4 1/2" threaded steamers. We simply carry adapters on each rig. Makes a lot more sense to buy adapters then new hydrants, IMO.

    We keep the 4 1/2" female to storz adapter attached to the LDH, and a
    4 1/2" male to 2 1/2" female attached to that (in case we get on a plug without a steamer; If it has a steamer we just pull of the last adapter). We keep a hydrant bag with the 4" adapter, hydrant tool, and spanners next to it and it's grabbed with the hose when catching the plug. Gives everything you need regardless of the plug configuration. Works great for us.
    FTM-PTB-RFB
    IACOJ

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    volfirie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    558

    Default

    If the City is that broke, why do you want to waste scarce tax money? Adapters are a lot cheaper - just leave the most common one on the hose.

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hinesfire View Post
    Looking for someone who has recently won this battle (read money) for convincing the city council & 1 man water department that we should stop buying threaded steamer port hydrants and pay for upgrade to storz fitting on new hydrants. We probably install only a couple a year, but there has been some recent housing development still using the old standards. Of course the water man thinks he invented the water system and is a old codger who is relunctant to accept change. Our supply hose is all storz 5 inch. Let me honestly say the city has NO money. I am looking for avenues to obtain grants to change the existing threaded hydrants to storz adaptors. It's a no brainer to the voly FD.

    Anyone have some documentation about why this is such an overwhelmingly good idea, that even our city council can only nod in concurrence? Any help will be appreciated. Public speaking is not my strong point.
    Sorry, I was not clear. The city is broke. My post is in needing help in gaining a change in the use of new hydrants being placed with threads instead of a Storz fitting. In the last couple years an overall 15% increase in number of hydrants in new development housing areas. None with storz steamer port because of "we always done it that way water-dept-man".

    I am also working thru some remote possibility Grant processes to convert existing hydrants with a Storz adaptor, and not suggesting the city foot that $20,000+ bill. I was hoping to jump into streamlining the water supply process with a move towards standardize Storz hydrants, like we (and neighbors) have with our supply lines, all now 5 inch storz. In a perfect world, sounds good. I'd rather 1/4 turn the supply line without all the adaptors of multiple hydrant manufacturers and thread size selections. Just a thought.

  9. #9
    Early Adopter
    cozmosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,925

    Default

    I don't want to sound like an old codger (because I'm still a whippersnapper), but where is this issue on the list of priorities for your department? Seriously, it would be cool to have the Storz connections on the plugs... but the adapters we use work just fine. We'd have to accomplish a 100 different wish list items before Storz plugs made it to the top of the list.

    If you're trying to sell the city on the idea, just demonstrate why you think you need them. And, for fun & recreation, why don't you tell us why you need them as well?

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hinesfire View Post
    Sorry, I was not clear. The city is broke. My post is in needing help in gaining a change in the use of new hydrants being placed with threads instead of a Storz fitting. In the last couple years an overall 15% increase in number of hydrants in new development housing areas. None with storz steamer port because of "we always done it that way water-dept-man".

    I am also working thru some remote possibility Grant processes to convert existing hydrants with a Storz adaptor, and not suggesting the city foot that $20,000+ bill. I was hoping to jump into streamlining the water supply process with a move towards standardize Storz hydrants, like we (and neighbors) have with our supply lines, all now 5 inch storz. In a perfect world, sounds good. I'd rather 1/4 turn the supply line without all the adaptors of multiple hydrant manufacturers and thread size selections. Just a thought.
    Are threaded conections that big of an issue for you guys? Does your chief sell stortz on the side or get a kickback? Because I can't understand why in a city that is "broke" this would even be a consideration.

    You have threaded hydrants that work...why spend the money to essentially just change the threads?

    FTM-PTB

  11. #11
    Let's talk fire trucks!
    BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,348

    Default

    I'm on board with Memphis, Fred, and Coz on this one....why are threaded steamer connections such a problem? If money was unlimited, sure, I'd say go for it. But with the city's financial situation as you describe it, I would probably re-evaluate my priorities.

    Also, I am curious what the plan would be during the time that you had both old threaded and new Storz (the correct spelling ) hydrants in service? I know that seems like a silly question, but if you're trying to save time with the Storz hydrants, what about the time you'll loose always popping the threaded connection off the end of 5" when you wrap a Storz hydrant?
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  12. #12
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    I'm on board with Memphis, Fred, and Coz on this one....why are threaded steamer connections such a problem? If money was unlimited, sure, I'd say go for it. But with the city's financial situation as you describe it, I would probably re-evaluate my priorities.

    Also, I am curious what the plan would be during the time that you had both old threaded and new Storz (the correct spelling ) hydrants in service? I know that seems like a silly question, but if you're trying to save time with the Storz hydrants, what about the time you'll loose always popping the threaded connection off the end of 5" when you wrap a Storz hydrant?
    Your all right on. Its a nicety, not a priority.

    Currently the way we operate is all our bed supply line is 5 in Storz. We have a hydrant stack on the rear bumper, next to the wrench, with a 2.5, 4.5, and 5 inch to Storz threaded connectors all connected together. Since we have hydrants with 2 - 2.5 ports, or/and both 4.5 & 5 inch steamers, its always a smorgasboard when you pull up. If the automatic aid dept supplies water, its the same for them. Just takes more time, cap issues, etc etc.

    I was hoping to make it easier over time, I thought. Start with any newly installed hydrant, purchased new with the Storz fitting in place of threaded steamer.

  13. #13
    Let's talk fire trucks!
    BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,348

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hinesfire View Post
    Since we have hydrants with 2 - 2.5 ports, or/and both 4.5 & 5 inch steamers, its always a smorgasboard when you pull up. If the automatic aid dept supplies water, its the same for them. Just takes more time, cap issues, etc etc.
    Good lord, man! Wow, for me at least, that information sheds a slightly different light on everything. We're lucky both at work and the VFD, every hydrant that we'd have deal with on a daily basis, including mutual aid, is a 4.5" steamer.

    With such a variety of hydrant fittings, this might be an option for you. However, if Mr. Old Grumpy Water Man refuses to retro-fit the old hydrants, will you now have FOUR steamer connection options rather than just three?
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber
    JHR1985's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    1,918

    Default

    okay.... I kind of see what your going with.

    You gotta start somewhere....
    The Box. You opened it. We Came...

    "You'll take my life but I'll take your's too. You'll fire musket but I'll run you through. So when your waiting for the next attack, you'll better understand there's no turn back."

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Would you buy a car today with a 3speed on the column?

    So why would you intentionally buy a NEW obsolete hydrant? Price of a new hydrant with a 5" Storz is same as one with a threaded steamer.

    A Storz is obvoiusly slightly faster to hookup. Certainly faster than threading on an adapter (or adapters) then hooking up the LDH. Someone in your community has more political muscle that the old codger at the water dept.

    Do a fire grant. 2004 FG I got Storz adapters, some LDH, and other misc 5"S fittings. You only have to come up with 5% or 10%.

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Carrollton, TX
    Posts
    201

    Default

    Isnt it a general rule that someone has to die before progress can be made? Might be something to look into...

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,273

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hinesfire View Post
    Looking for someone who has recently won this battle (read money) for convincing the city council & 1 man water department that we should stop buying threaded steamer port hydrants and pay for upgrade to storz fitting on new hydrants. We probably install only a couple a year, but there has been some recent housing development still using the old standards. Of course the water man thinks he invented the water system and is a old codger who is relunctant to accept change. Our supply hose is all storz 5 inch. Let me honestly say the city has NO money. I am looking for avenues to obtain grants to change the existing threaded hydrants to storz adaptors. It's a no brainer to the voly FD.

    Anyone have some documentation about why this is such an overwhelmingly good idea, that even our city council can only nod in concurrence? Any help will be appreciated. Public speaking is not my strong point.



    I read this post and all the others that have posted their responses. I said walk away from it, what you say isnít going to be prudent.

    Oh well, If your city is broke is broke! About all they can do for the fire department is to supply the fuel for the trucks and what ever else that is necessary for the smooth operation.

    How many hydrants are we talking about in your burg?

    My old department has over 5,000 hydrants. When we went to the LDH with Storz couplings, the thing we did was to buy adapters for all apparatus. This was the steamer connection, discharges, and other adapters, increasers. This was a BIG cost savings, compared to making the change to all the 5,000 plus steamers outlets. We still would have had to buy the different adapters to go on the apparatus plus the other connections that are needed.


    The neighboring departments use LDH and it was incumbent for them to get their own connections for their use and in case they would be invited into of City, that they could make the connections to the hydrants.

    This being said, our city council could give a $hit what type of steamer connection we use or the water utility department has on the hydrants. The department budgeted for and procured what we needed and made it work.

    All new apparatus purchased after we made that big LDH addition back in the 1980ís have been specified with LDH intakes and discharges.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    SW MO
    Posts
    4,249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Would you buy a car today with a 3speed on the column?

    So why would you intentionally buy a NEW obsolete hydrant? Price of a new hydrant with a 5" Storz is same as one with a threaded steamer.

    A Storz is obvoiusly slightly faster to hookup. Certainly faster than threading on an adapter (or adapters) then hooking up the LDH. Someone in your community has more political muscle that the old codger at the water dept.

    Do a fire grant. 2004 FG I got Storz adapters, some LDH, and other misc 5"S fittings. You only have to come up with 5% or 10%.
    While I agree with you, I have to ask what the use of changing to storz on new hydrants is going to do while leaving the others threaded? Sure it may speed up hooking to a new hydrant (so the hydrant man can wait 45 seconds instead of 15 to charge the plug? ), if you leave the adapters off of the supply line. But it's going to increase time to put on the adapter and screw it to the hydrant for the old ones.

    From my experience, storz is more maintenance intensive (not much, but more than threaded). If any dirt at all gets in the track, it's a bear to get cleaned out and you can't get the connections to lock in. All it takes is dropping the cap into the mud and putting it back on without cleaning it off. At least with a threaded connection you can wipe it with a glove and get it clean enough to get the connector on.

    I think if I was going to do it, I'd them all at once if it's for the sake of standardization. There's probably grants out there to get it done, but they're going to require a match of some sort.

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    Dave1983's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Gator Country
    Posts
    4,157

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    If your city is broke and has no money as you state, it is not an overwhelmingly good idea. Why would you want to incur the cost of changing your fire hydrants when an adaptor from threads to storz will work just fine.

    And yes, we use 5" hose with stoz connectors and threaded hydrants. Never been an issue.

    What he said...Big waste of effort and money if you ask me.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

    "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
    RUSH-Tom Sawyer

    Success is when skill meets opportunity
    Failure is when fantasy meets reality

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. City of Bridgeport council will not ban felons from Fire dept
    By laserjet5 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-27-2004, 12:37 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-16-2004, 01:35 PM
  3. City Council approves new retirement plan for firefighter's
    By Engine101 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-18-2003, 10:26 AM
  4. Help! City council is taking OUR money
    By bvilleff in forum Volunteer Forum
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 01-20-2002, 01:20 AM
  5. FD relationships with the City Council
    By Engine 101 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 02-16-2001, 07:33 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register