1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whocares View Post
    Yes.......
    I'll take the sarcasm as your acceptance of the fact that you were wrong in your over-generalization.

    Someone, yourself included, may in fact need to change a bottle at a fire.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    I'll take the sarcasm as your acceptance of the fact that you were wrong in your over-generalization.

    Someone, yourself included, may in fact need to change a bottle at a fire.
    Actually it wasn't all that sarcastic. I don't put my mask on until I really need it. If we have to go through some smoke before it goes on, then thats what I do. It comes off as soon as I think I don't need it. I know this is not what many here advocate, but that's the way it goes. By the time the alarm goes off, 99% of the time the fire is out, the trucks have opened the joint up and there is plenty of air. I can't remember a single fire, except for one which was a special circumstance, where I have used my air, exited and changed bottles, then returned on air.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whocares View Post
    I don't use air for overhaul. I don't know anyone who does.
    Don't get out much do ya?

    (Pssstt .... it's 2008)

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfd1992 View Post
    Don't get out much do ya?

    (Pssstt .... it's 2008)
    So I'm sure you test the air during overhaul and never take your mask off until all readings are zero, right? And you are on air for CO runs, and trash cans, and auto's, and lawnmowers, and dumpsters, rubbish in the alley, right? And all your rig bays have exhaust systems and you put them on even when backing in, right?
    Last edited by Whocares; 11-25-2008 at 08:38 PM.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whocares View Post
    So I'm sure you test the air during overhaul and never take your mask off until all readings are zero, right? And you are on air for CO runs, and trash cans, and auto's, and lawnmowers, and dumpsters, rubbish in the alley, right? And all your rig bays have exhaust systems and you put them on even when backing in, right?
    We monitor during overhaul and drop SCBA's under 50ppm. Lot's of stuff still floating around during overhaul that can F--- you up.

    We are supposed to go on air on CO incidents if it's over 50ppm. Doesn't always happen, but we're working on it.

    Guys generally don't go on air for trash cans, dumpsters, lawnmowers, rubbish in the alley or anything else out in the open, where it's easy to stay out of the crap. But, if someone wants to, cool.

    Car fires are hit and miss. Usually we'll just pull the trash line and knock it down, but if I have to get up close and in the fumes and sh-t, I'll wear one, no problem.

    All our stations have exhaust systems, and I'd say they get hooked up when backing in 75% of the time at a minimum. This has nothing to do with air management, but I'll play your little game.

    Go ahead and be a bad-***, and talk about how little air you use. The air is free, and I like my lungs clean.

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    Well said SFD,

    i believe its safe to say that everyone here knows when they should use an SCBA...whether or not it gets used when/where it should is a different story...there will always be the "smoke-eaters" way of fighting fire instilled in people minds...if you roll out to a house fire and need to do some overhaul or open a trash line on a car fire when you are too close and in the smoke and dont feel like wearing your SCBA even though you KNOW that you should, so be it, you will be the one to pay for it in the end...i, on the other hand, know that each one of us has our days numbered so i dont want to do anything that will speed that up lol...lets get beyond that aforementioned 56 1/2 year mark!
    No skill mods yet, but seeking motivation!

  7. #32
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    We operate closer to SFD than WhoCares.

    And yes, we have exhaust systems as well. And yes, they are connected.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  8. #33
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    Generally I go on air when I need it. The idea of air managment sounds good, but in all my experience the individual decides. I have to wonder what goes on when "experienced" firefighters don't know when it's time to go on air or leave a hostile environment and that needs to be regulated. I'll make a few enemies now or be accused of being all manner of stupid, but I have to say that while safety is paramount we seem to be regulating our way right out of the fire area. What's next exterior attacks only so that we can guarantee air management, or 2 in 2 out, or a host of other safety regulations that reduce effective and aggressive interior operations. Maybe if a little more time was put into studying building construction, fire behavior and using actual class A fire for training as opposed to "gas grill" training centers, our firefighters would have the knowledge they need to make the right choices. What ever happened to the value of experience? If firefighters don't know when it's time to go on air or worse when it's time to get out...their training has failed them big time.

    Bash away guys.

    Cogs

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFPCogs08 View Post
    Generally I go on air when I need it. The idea of air managment sounds good, but in all my experience the individual decides. I have to wonder what goes on when "experienced" firefighters don't know when it's time to go on air or leave a hostile environment and that needs to be regulated. I'll make a few enemies now or be accused of being all manner of stupid, but I have to say that while safety is paramount we seem to be regulating our way right out of the fire area. What's next exterior attacks only so that we can guarantee air management, or 2 in 2 out, or a host of other safety regulations that reduce effective and aggressive interior operations. Maybe if a little more time was put into studying building construction, fire behavior and using actual class A fire for training as opposed to "gas grill" training centers, our firefighters would have the knowledge they need to make the right choices. What ever happened to the value of experience? If firefighters don't know when it's time to go on air or worse when it's time to get out...their training has failed them big time.

    Bash away guys.

    Cogs
    No bash from me Cogs. Welcome to the pussification of the fire service.

    Oh and WhoCares, I have never seen anyone wearing a mask overhauling either.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Oh and WhoCares, I have never seen anyone wearing a mask overhauling either.
    Me either.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFPCogs08 View Post
    Generally I go on air when I need it. The idea of air managment sounds good, but in all my experience the individual decides. I have to wonder what goes on when "experienced" firefighters don't know when it's time to go on air or leave a hostile environment and that needs to be regulated. ....

    ..... If firefighters don't know when it's time to go on air or worse when it's time to get out...their training has failed them big time.

    Bash away guys.

    Cogs
    Not going to bash anyone either, but air mangement isn't about knowing when to go on or off air, or when to leave a hostile environment. It's about getting guys in the mindset of being aware of how much air they have, and not getting to the point that you run out of air deep inside. If you used half your air getting to whatever area you are in the structure, be aware that you MIGHT need that much to get out again. It's about getting guys out of the habit of using their SCBA the same way in a warehouse fire as they do in a 750sf house. How many times have we seen LODD's because departments fight every fire like it's the 1-1/2 story house fire thay get every day? Same concept, just another tool.

    Lt, if using an SCBA during overhaul makes me a pu$$y, so be it. Like I said, air doesn't cost anything, and there's still plenty of nasty sh-t in the air during overhaul.
    Last edited by sfd1992; 11-26-2008 at 09:13 PM.

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    We have guidelines for air standards in overhaul, but they are rarely followed. We generally stay on air until the air is comfortable to breathe. Not the safest or best. I am on air any time I feel like I'm breathing more crap than I want to, regardless of others' air status. If I'm overhauling a vehicle fire, I might still be on air. I value my lungs. When I retire, I want to be healthy enough to enjoy it.

    I have no idea how a low-air alarm would equate to a mayday-level event. Maybe an urgent item, but would you sound your PASS device, call a mayday, give a LUNAR, send in RIT, or bail out of a window? That's ridiculous. I am all about standardizing larger bottles and more attention to air management, as well as making low-air alarms IMPORTANT. But mayday-level? No. We also have guidelines stating that no one shall work in an IDLH environment with a low-air alarm. It does not say that you've got to treat a low air alarm like a mayday.

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    Enjoy your cancer.

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    I'm fine with guys breathing air during overhaul if that's the policy or their choice, but I find policies generally lack the ability to address all the hazards so they become a false sense of security. Measuring for CO is only one of many toxic gases you maybe exposed to. Many recent studies show hydrogen cyanide presence maybe more dangerous. Who's measuring for that? What other gases affect your gas meters? I know many FD's have far too little knowledge of their meters to be safe.

    We have no policy and probably breathe more crap than we should, but short of an "on air always" policy we'll continue to leave a lot up to what we can see, the individual and chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfd1992 View Post
    Don't get out much do ya?

    (Pssstt .... it's 2008)

    Go ahead and be a bad-***, and talk about how little air you use.

    Not going to bash anyone either
    Uhhh, ok...

    It's not about being a "bad ***". I posted, was questioned about it, and posted my answer. My "little game" with you was to find out if you were criticizing me because you are from a 100% safe department that always uses the safest tactics, or if you were a hypocrite that picks and chooses his safety issues by whim. By your own admission your department is hit or miss when it comes to wearing your tanks, and have no monitoring during overhaul with the exception of CO. I guess I'm not alone in "Not getting out much"...
    If you're afraid of getting wet, then do it inside and quit ******ing and moaning about the exhaust, at least you'll stay dry.

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    Easy answer for our air management policy. If there is a fire in the building we go on air outside the door.

    Makes no difference if the fire is in the back of the supermarket and we go in the front. On air outside the door.

    SCBA stays on for overhaul until CO drops below 20 ppm. Officer or senior man supervising ioverhaul inside the structure always has a CO meter. When it drops below 20, he gives the IC a shout. He will then usually check it out personally and make the final call on losing the SCBA.

    Not following the policy will get our paid guys a shift or two off. Volunteers will find themseleves suspended for a few weeks. It's enforced and everybody knows it.

    Reality is firefighters will always try to do things the easy way. it's the department's responsibility to mandate that they do things the right way.

    At this point we are realigning our training and SOPs to address this new standard.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 11-28-2008 at 08:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    I'm fine with guys breathing air during overhaul if that's the policy or their choice, but I find policies generally lack the ability to address all the hazards so they become a false sense of security. Measuring for CO is only one of many toxic gases you maybe exposed to. Many recent studies show hydrogen cyanide presence maybe more dangerous. Who's measuring for that? What other gases affect your gas meters? I know many FD's have far too little knowledge of their meters to be safe.

    We have no policy and probably breathe more crap than we should, but short of an "on air always" policy we'll continue to leave a lot up to what we can see, the individual and chance.
    We do monitor more than just CO. Our officers attend an Incident Safety Officer class. Whoever is assigned safety at a fire is in charge of monitoring air quality during overhaul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whocares View Post
    So I'm sure you test the air during overhaul and never take your mask off until all readings are zero, right? And you are on air for CO runs, and trash cans, and auto's, and lawnmowers, and dumpsters, rubbish in the alley, right? And all your rig bays have exhaust systems and you put them on even when backing in, right?
    Pretty much, yep.

    And I wear gloves when I start IV's. You?

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