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    Default Boston FD: Drugs Not Factors in LODDs

    Interesting article. Not to spark any bad feelings here just want to see what every thinks about the findings of the BFD union. Is it typical for BFD not to go on air while going into a structure fire with a charged hose line? Was there very little smoke inside the building to warrent this action? I know the article says that the bulk of the smoke was hidden in the drop ceiling but they also said they saw fire. Again I wasn't there and by no means monday morning this at all. It hits home how quick somthing can go from bad to worse on you.

    http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...Id=39&id=58445

    One of the two firefighters who died in an August restaurant blaze in West Roxbury entered the burning kitchen with neither his face mask, which was found on a table, nor his radio, which was left behind at the fire station. When a grease-fueled fireball exploded from the ceiling, the firefighter tried to feel his way out along a hose, but the line led him deeper into the building.

    This revelation about Firefighter Paul J. Cahill's death is contained in a controversial report written by a Boston Fire Department panel, composed entirely of union firefighters, which the city plans to release today.

    The report has triggered an extraordinary exchange between the fire commissioner and the union over whether drug- and alcohol-impairment played a role in the death of the two firefighters on Aug. 29 inside the Tai Ho Mandarin and Cantonese Restaurant.

    The panel's report does not address whether Cahill or Warren J. Payne was impaired by drugs or alcohol, saying it didn't have access to autopsies on the two men. News reports on the autopsies said they showed that Cahill was legally drunk and that Payne had traces of cocaine in his system.

    The panel did, however, determine that drugs and alcohol played no role in the deaths.

    "The board of inquiry could find no factual indications supporting that alcohol/drug impairment contributed to or caused these two firefighters" to perish, the report said.

    That finding prompted Fire Commissioner Roderick Fraser to dispatch a letter to the board yesterday that said, "I do not believe that there is evidence to dismiss possible impairment."

    Fraser's letter said that two other firefighters with Cahill escaped from the kitchen, but that Cahill did not. "Was FF [Firefighter] Cahill impaired, which resulted in him not being able to egress from the building?" Fraser wrote. "Why was he not wearing his facepiece at this point? Could being under the influence of alcohol have contributed to FF Cahill's disorientation and decision not to wear his facepiece?"

    The board of inquiry report was obtained by the Globe yesterday. A copy of Fraser's letter was also obtained by the Globe.

    The 134-page report contains 60 recommendations, foremost among them a call for companies that install and clean kitchen exhaust systems in Massachusetts restaurants to be licensed and regulated. The panel urged passage of a state law assigning oversight of the kitchen-exhaust installation and cleaning industries to a government agency that would hold them accountable.

    The board's investigation found that the fire was caused by a buildup of grease that had escaped from a hole in the kitchen's ventilation system.

    The board of inquiry explained that it could not address whether the firefighters were impaired, because the results of autopsies on the two men were "not available to the board of inquiry." In October, two government officials with direct knowledge of the findings told the Globe that the autopsies found that Payne had traces of cocaine in his system and that Cahill's blood-alcohol content was 0.27, three times the legal limit to drive in Massachusetts.

    State law requires that the district attorney approve the disclosure of autopsy reports. A spokesman for Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel F. Conley, Jake Wark, said last night that the office had never received a "formal request" from the board of inquiry for the autopsy results.

    The Globe reported last month that city officials had misgivings about the thoroughness of the board of inquiry's investigation because it did not address the issue of impairment. The city's chief lawyer asked the board to extend its investigation to question supervisors and colleagues about the conditions of Cahill and Payne and to obtain the autopsy reports.

    In its report, the board of inquiry appeared to address those concerns, saying it "did not intend to ignore and or evade the issue of alcohol/drug impairment during the course of its investigation, but sought to seek factual indications that supported impairment as one of the causal factors in the fatalities."

    The board's report describes the actions of Cahill and Payne during the harrowing minutes they were involved in fighting the fire.

    Firefighters arrived at the Tai Ho restaurant on Centre Street at 9:08 p.m. Cahill rushed through the front door with the lead hose and into the kitchen. Payne began searching the restaurant for people.

    In the kitchen ceiling, the fire, which had been burning long before firefighters arrived, was starving for oxygen.

    Cahill aimed his fire hose up at the ceiling, where flames could be seen next to the exhaust system over the stove. The force of the water stream dislodged ceiling tiles in the kitchen and the neighboring dining room, the report says.

    Within seconds, a bank of heavy smoke dropped from the ceiling to within inches of the floor. Suddenly the fire burst like a giant blow torch through a hole where a tile had been in the dining room ceiling. The blaze descended on Payne and burst out the front windows of the restaurant.

    Payne was alone in that section of the dining room. An emergency distress signal sounded from his portable radio; dispatchers attempted to contact him but received no response.

    One firefighter, an officer, ran into the kitchen and yelled to Cahill and another firefighter, "Get out! Get out!"

    The officer and the other man ran to the door and escaped. Meanwhile, Cahill shut off his hose and attempted to follow it toward the front door. But it was twisted, and he moved deeper into the inferno, where he succumbed to smoke inhalation.

    The firefighters' bodies were discovered between 9:21 and 9:26. Investigators later found an air mask, with Cahill's name faintly visible, resting on a table in the restaurant.

    As to the cause of the fire, the report says grease and combustible gases escaped from the exhaust system into the ceiling through a gap 12 inches long and 1 inch wide in a metal exhaust duct.

    Investigators determined that the system was rusty, thick with grease, and had not been installed or maintained in compliance with state fire codes, the report says. The state of the system "directly led to the fire and the products of combustion escaping from the containment area."

    State fire codes require quarterly inspections of kitchen exhaust systems and the cleanup of any grease buildup found. The codes charge restaurant owners with the ultimate responsibility of making sure it's done right.

    The board of inquiry concluded that companies that install and clean the ducts should be licensed and regulated by a government agency.

    The state fire marshal's office regulates and certifies individuals and companies that install fire suppression equipment in restaurant cooking ventilation systems, such as alarms and sprinklers, but not those who install and clean the systems.

    Grease-cleaning industry specialists yesterday applauded the board's recommendation for a state law mandating licensing and regulation of the companies.

    "It makes a lot of sense," said Steven Schlesinger, co-owner of Tri State Fire Protection and Tri State Hood & Duct, which cleans restaurants in Maine, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts. "We're huge proponents. You've got to do this right."

    Donovan Slack can be reached at dslack@globe.com

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    Very little smoke when they entered the building, no need to go on air at that time. Made it to the kitchen, saw small fire in the ceilling. Had the line charged and hit the fire, thats when the crap hit the fan. Not unheard of for guys to have other members face piece's. I spoke with the guys who found Cahill, they all told me he had his face peice on, but it was off to the side of his face. As if he was forced to the ground by the falling ceilling. He also had a Large lac to his head. The entire report can be read on local 718 website. Along with photo's of the building and of the various stages of the fire and the actions of the members and companies that night.

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    Being under the influence of drugs or alcohol while on the job/on duty is absolutely ucalled for, unprofessional, morally wrong, and a discrace to the rest of the firefighters of the world, in my opinion. It is very unfortunate that they were. I am curious to see if that was a factor in their death or not. You are mistaken crank when you say the panel found the drugs had no part in the deaths. If you read correctly, the panel did not explore that aspect because they did not have all the information and did not have enough experience in that area. The panel DID NOT determine one way or the other. I also think it's unfair to cruicify these jakes if the drugs did not play a part in their death. If it did, it is a very sad case.

    Still, I don't want to see and it hurts when firefighters die no matter what the reason. Personally it hurts me to see this. I feel for the Boston brothers and their families as well. Just another reason why firefighters should be 100% sober and ready to go when we are needed. The public expects nothing less, our profession demands it.
    Last edited by Dickey; 02-24-2008 at 06:25 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjake1240 View Post
    Very little smoke when they entered the building, no need to go on air at that time. Made it to the kitchen, saw small fire in the ceilling. Had the line charged and hit the fire, thats when the crap hit the fan. Not unheard of for guys to have other members face piece's. I spoke with the guys who found Cahill, they all told me he had his face peice on, but it was off to the side of his face. As if he was forced to the ground by the falling ceilling. He also had a Large lac to his head. The entire report can be read on local 718 website. Along with photo's of the building and of the various stages of the fire and the actions of the members and companies that night.
    Thanks for the info BJ, I will check out the report.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    You are mistaken crank when you say the panel found the drugs had no part in the deaths. If you read correctly, the panel did not explore that aspect because they did not have all the information and did not have enough experience in that area. The panel DID NOT determine one way or the other.
    Boston FD: Drugs Not Factors in LODDs - Dickey this was the headline used on the home page of FH not my opinion. It seems that the union is saying whether or not the two Brothers were under the influence they would have came to the same demise. Where as the fire commissioners are saying the opposite but I didn't read the whole report just this article.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    Being under the influence of drugs or alcohol while on the job/on duty is absolutely ucalled for, unprofessional, morally wrong, and a discrace to the rest of the firefighters of the world, in my opinion. It is very unfortunate that they were. I am curious to see if that was a factor in their death or not. You are mistaken crank when you say the panel found the drugs had no part in the deaths. If you read correctly, the panel did not explore that aspect because they did not have all the information and did not have enough experience in that area. The panel DID NOT determine one way or the other. I also think it's unfair to cruicify these jakes if the drugs did not play a part in their death. If it did, it is a very sad case.

    Still, I don't want to see and it hurts when firefighters die no matter what the reason. Personally it hurts me to see this. I feel for the Boston brothers and their families as well. Just another reason why firefighters should be 100% sober and ready to go when we are needed. The public expects nothing less, our profession demands it.
    It was not the BOI job to find if they had been or had not been under the influence of drugs and alcohol. It was there job to find out the cause of the fire and why the fire acted the way it did. Reports from onscene stated they acted in a professional manner and they did the job that was aked of them. The BOI did ask for the autopsy results and it was never granted to them. That is stated in the report itself which can be read in full on the Local 718 website.

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    BostonJake - The way it seems this fire would be handled the same way over and over in just about every dept. Little smoke, small fire, I would do the same thing. Like I said before it hits home how quick things can change on you. Have you guys talked about any changes in the way you would go about things in this same situation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by crankshaft View Post
    BostonJake - The way it seems this fire would be handled the same way over and over in just about every dept. Little smoke, small fire, I would do the same thing. Like I said before it hits home how quick things can change on you. Have you guys talked about any changes in the way you would go about things in this same situation?

    I was at the fire that night, I do think that when you experience something like this it is best to get back up on the horse quickly. The next day I caught another fire. About a week later we caught another Taxpayer in Dorchester. A little different then this fire in question as the second taxpayer had apartments over the store, if I recall it was a pastry shop. I was taught long ago that when you walk into a building like this is to pop a tile from the suspended ceilling and look for smoke or indications of fire. I guess those old smoker eaters have some clue as to what they are talking about. Sure the fire service has changed, with hoods and bunker gear and everyone afraid of a little smoke, but had a member stopped and popped a tile....things may have been different. Chalk it up to a dreedful leason learnt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    Being under the influence of drugs or alcohol while on the job/on duty is absolutely ucalled for, unprofessional, morally wrong, and a discrace to the rest of the firefighters of the world, in my opinion. It is very unfortunate that they were. I am curious to see if that was a factor in their death or not. You are mistaken crank when you say the panel found the drugs had no part in the deaths. If you read correctly, the panel did not explore that aspect because they did not have all the information and did not have enough experience in that area. The panel DID NOT determine one way or the other. I also think it's unfair to cruicify these jakes if the drugs did not play a part in their death. If it did, it is a very sad case.

    Still, I don't want to see and it hurts when firefighters die no matter what the reason. Personally it hurts me to see this. I feel for the Boston brothers and their families as well. Just another reason why firefighters should be 100% sober and ready to go when we are needed. The public expects nothing less, our profession demands it.


    Dickey, you are wrong. You need to read it again. They said that drugsand alchohol were not a factor into the deaths.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjake1240 View Post
    I was at the fire that night, I do think that when you experience something like this it is best to get back up on the horse quickly. The next day I caught another fire. About a week later we caught another Taxpayer in Dorchester. A little different then this fire in question as the second taxpayer had apartments over the store, if I recall it was a pastry shop. I was taught long ago that when you walk into a building like this is to pop a tile from the suspended ceilling and look for smoke or indications of fire. I guess those old smoker eaters have some clue as to what they are talking about. Sure the fire service has changed, with hoods and bunker gear and everyone afraid of a little smoke, but had a member stopped and popped a tile....things may have been different. Chalk it up to a dreedful leason learnt.
    If you were at that fire you would know that there was a tile popped in the right corner of the dining room and the officer of L25 called for an additional line.

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    bostonjake - were you at the presentation on Thursday?

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    How can a BA that high, not have played a role in the events? If you were driving your car with a BA that high, and involved in a fatal car accident, you could be charged with vehicular manslaughter.

    This isn't one beer two hours ago, .27 is sloppy *** drunk. Did the guys in his company know he was drinking that much?

    Blood Alcohol
    Concentration (BAC)1

    Typical Effects

    Predictable Effects on Driving
    .02%


    * Some loss of judgment
    * Relaxation
    * Slight body warmth
    * Altered mood



    * Decline in visual functions (rapid tracking of a moving target)
    * Decline in ability to perform two tasks at the same time (divided attention)

    .05%


    * Exaggerated behavior
    * May have loss of small-muscle control (e.g., focusing your eyes)
    * Impaired judgment
    * Usually good feeling
    * Lowered alertness
    * Release of inhibition



    * Reduced coordination
    * Reduced ability to track moving objects
    * Difficulty steering
    * Reduced response to emergency driving situations

    .08%


    * Muscle coordination becomes poor (e.g., balance, speech, vision, reaction time, and hearing)
    * Harder to detect danger
    * Judgment, self-control, reasoning, and memory are impaired



    * Concentration
    * Short-term memory loss
    * Speed control
    * Reduced information processing capability (e.g., signal detection, visual search)
    * Impaired perception

    .10%


    * Clear deterioration of reaction time and control
    * Slurred speech, poor coordination, and slowed thinking



    * Reduced ability to maintain lane position and brake appropriately

    .15%


    * Far less muscle control than normal
    * Vomiting may occur (unless this level is reached slowly or a
    person has developed a tolerance
    for alcohol)
    * Major loss of balance



    * Substantial impairment in vehicle control, attention to driving task, and in necessary visual and auditory information processing

    1 Information in this table shows the BAC level at which the effect usually is first observed, and has been gathered from a variety of sources including the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, the American Medical Association, the National Commission Against Drunk Driving, and www.webMD.com.

    [back to top

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjake1240 View Post
    I was at the fire that night, I do think that when you experience something like this it is best to get back up on the horse quickly. The next day I caught another fire. About a week later we caught another Taxpayer in Dorchester. A little different then this fire in question as the second taxpayer had apartments over the store, if I recall it was a pastry shop. I was taught long ago that when you walk into a building like this is to pop a tile from the suspended ceilling and look for smoke or indications of fire. I guess those old smoker eaters have some clue as to what they are talking about. Sure the fire service has changed, with hoods and bunker gear and everyone afraid of a little smoke, but had a member stopped and popped a tile....things may have been different. Chalk it up to a dreedful leason learnt.
    BostonJake - Thanks for talking about it, much appreciated. Like you said chalk it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geinandputitout View Post
    How can a BA that high, not have played a role in the events? If you were driving your car with a BA that high, and involved in a fatal car accident, you could be charged with vehicular manslaughter.

    This isn't one beer two hours ago, .27 is sloppy *** drunk. Did the guys in his company know he was drinking that much?


    [back to top
    Thanks for the info. This is what is wrong with it. I am a person who weighs 220 lbs, at 6 feet tall, I have about a 12 pak a year!! My buddy on the other hand with the same Stats as me, will drink a 24 pack before he has to pee!!! His tolerance to the alcohol is far higher than mine. It is not uncommon for people to maintain a BA way above the legal limit and show no signs of intoxication. It has been learned that Paul was like this, Paul...God rest his sole, was a chronic alcoholic. Infact, if his BA went to low he would go into DT's and become sick. That is what is wrong with numbers of .08 or .27. Numbers can Lie, just like according to my stats I am an over weight bag of crap on the BMI scale, and so was Arnold when he won all those Mr Olympia's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geinandputitout View Post
    How can a BA that high, not have played a role in the events? If you were driving your car with a BA that high, and involved in a fatal car accident, you could be charged with vehicular manslaughter.

    This isn't one beer two hours ago, .27 is sloppy *** drunk. Did the guys in his company know he was drinking that much?

    Blood Alcohol
    Concentration (BAC)1

    Typical Effects

    Predictable Effects on Driving
    .02%


    * Some loss of judgment
    * Relaxation
    * Slight body warmth
    * Altered mood



    * Decline in visual functions (rapid tracking of a moving target)
    * Decline in ability to perform two tasks at the same time (divided attention)

    .05%


    * Exaggerated behavior
    * May have loss of small-muscle control (e.g., focusing your eyes)
    * Impaired judgment
    * Usually good feeling
    * Lowered alertness
    * Release of inhibition



    * Reduced coordination
    * Reduced ability to track moving objects
    * Difficulty steering
    * Reduced response to emergency driving situations

    .08%


    * Muscle coordination becomes poor (e.g., balance, speech, vision, reaction time, and hearing)
    * Harder to detect danger
    * Judgment, self-control, reasoning, and memory are impaired



    * Concentration
    * Short-term memory loss
    * Speed control
    * Reduced information processing capability (e.g., signal detection, visual search)
    * Impaired perception

    .10%


    * Clear deterioration of reaction time and control
    * Slurred speech, poor coordination, and slowed thinking



    * Reduced ability to maintain lane position and brake appropriately

    .15%


    * Far less muscle control than normal
    * Vomiting may occur (unless this level is reached slowly or a
    person has developed a tolerance
    for alcohol)
    * Major loss of balance



    * Substantial impairment in vehicle control, attention to driving task, and in necessary visual and auditory information processing

    1 Information in this table shows the BAC level at which the effect usually is first observed, and has been gathered from a variety of sources including the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, the American Medical Association, the National Commission Against Drunk Driving, and www.webMD.com.

    [back to top
    The Dr. who worked on Firefighter Cahill reported that he worked on him for over an hour in an attempt to revive him. Medicines were introduced into Cahill's body during the attempt. The Dr. detected no odor of alcohol and has concerns over the accuracy of the Blood Alcohol results taken at the autopsy.
    The question of whether an autopsy report is a public record has not been answered. According to Mass Public Records law an autopsy report is exempt and is not a public record.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjake1240 View Post
    Thanks for the info. This is what is wrong with it. I am a person who weighs 220 lbs, at 6 feet tall, I have about a 12 pak a year!! My buddy on the other hand with the same Stats as me, will drink a 24 pack before he has to pee!!! His tolerance to the alcohol is far higher than mine. It is not uncommon for people to maintain a BA way above the legal limit and show no signs of intoxication. It has been learned that Paul was like this, Paul...God rest his sole, was a chronic alcoholic. Infact, if his BA went to low he would go into DT's and become sick. That is what is wrong with numbers of .08 or .27. Numbers can Lie, just like according to my stats I am an over weight bag of crap on the BMI scale, and so was Arnold when he won all those Mr Olympia's.
    Its all very sad. I have brothers like Paul, and I wish there was ways to provide them assistance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjake1240 View Post
    Thanks for the info. This is what is wrong with it. I am a person who weighs 220 lbs, at 6 feet tall, I have about a 12 pak a year!! My buddy on the other hand with the same Stats as me, will drink a 24 pack before he has to pee!!! His tolerance to the alcohol is far higher than mine. It is not uncommon for people to maintain a BA way above the legal limit and show no signs of intoxication. It has been learned that Paul was like this, Paul...God rest his sole, was a chronic alcoholic. Infact, if his BA went to low he would go into DT's and become sick. That is what is wrong with numbers of .08 or .27. Numbers can Lie, just like according to my stats I am an over weight bag of crap on the BMI scale, and so was Arnold when he won all those Mr Olympia's.
    So in other words, you think it is OK to have alcohol or any other mind-altering drug in your system while on the job?
    I believe them bones are me. Some say we are born into the grave. I feel so alone, gonna end up a big ol' pile a them bones

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    BostonJake ....

    Like others have said. Thanks for your open and honest feedback and information concerning this tragedy. Without getting too involved in the rights and wrongs (and I can see both sides and have a private opinion in this) I just feel that these were our brothers and we should stand by them whatever. The brothers who worked with them are the ones who have a right to make judgments and not us. I am saddened that the employer was not able to step in and offer some assistance before it came to this (and I am not meaning to lay blame here).

    I do have questions on some of the tactics and deployments at this fire but this will wait for another day. They are issues I have raised in recent weeks concerning other fires and LODD. It seems the same issues arise again and again.

    Jake - you stay safe and thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDAIC485 View Post
    So in other words, you think it is OK to have alcohol or any other mind-altering drug in your system while on the job?
    No I dont, but the person sitting next to you may be that person who is just like so many out there and has a BA of .20 on a everydaY Basis and you have no idea. Funny thing, the Autopsy was never given to anyone that I know of and the fact that his BA is .27 is just word of mouth from the mayors office!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batt18 View Post
    BostonJake ....

    Like others have said. Thanks for your open and honest feedback and information concerning this tragedy. Without getting too involved in the rights and wrongs (and I can see both sides and have a private opinion in this) I just feel that these were our brothers and we should stand by them whatever. The brothers who worked with them are the ones who have a right to make judgments and not us. I am saddened that the employer was not able to step in and offer some assistance before it came to this (and I am not meaning to lay blame here).

    I do have questions on some of the tactics and deployments at this fire but this will wait for another day. They are issues I have raised in recent weeks concerning other fires and LODD. It seems the same issues arise again and again.

    Jake - you stay safe and thanks.
    Paul, the report can be read on the Local 718 website. Has photo's and companies tactics along with time line. Read it, and send me a PM. Always willing to listen to a different view. As for the employer stepping in to help out. We have a great EAP program on the Boston fire dept, but you have to be willing to accept the fact that you have a problem and seek the help. Next time you are sitting at the kitchen table with the guys, look around!! I bet one of those people are hidding something that you dont have a clue about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonjake1240 View Post
    No I dont, but the person sitting next to you may be that person who is just like so many out there and has a BA of .20 on a everydaY Basis and you have no idea. Funny thing, the Autopsy was never given to anyone that I know of and the fact that his BA is .27 is just word of mouth from the mayors office!!!
    OK. Thank you for responding.
    I believe them bones are me. Some say we are born into the grave. I feel so alone, gonna end up a big ol' pile a them bones

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    From the commission that Mayor Menino put together after the Tai Ho fire

    “The department's policies currently permit drug and alcohol testing pre-employment; on a random basis during a firefighter’s first year of employment; following a critical incident; and if there is reasonable suspicion of drug or alcohol use while on duty.

    Generally, if members receive a positive test result, mandatory referral to the department’s Employee Assistance Program follows. Treatment and random drug and alcohol testing typically follow for one year. If there is a second positive test result, termination of employment usually follows.

    The panel reviewed the department's drug and alcohol policies and programs and compared them with policies and programs in several other metropolitan areas including New York City, Phoenix, San Francisco, San Diego, and Dallas, among others. We were impressed by the quality
    of the Boston Fire Department's Employee Assistance Program, which has demonstrably helped many members of the department who have been served by it. The Employee Assistance Program, however, can only help those people who participate in the program.18”
    http://www.cityofboston.gov/fire/pdf...view_Panel.pdf

    I wonder why Mayor Menino hasn't outed the person who leaked the autopsy reports to the media...

    Rest in peace, Brothers Cahill and Payne.
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 02-24-2008 at 06:33 PM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batt18 View Post
    BostonJake ....

    I just feel that these were our brothers and we should stand by them whatever. The brothers who worked with them are the ones who have a right to make judgments and not us.
    Exactly. There is a sad lack of this sentiment by some who post here. (not meaning anyone posting in this topic, others...)
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

  23. #23
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    DrewOnFire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    I wonder why Mayor Menino hasn't outed the person who leaked the autopsy reports to the media...
    Little conspiracy theory, I'll buy it.

    History will judge these men for their gallant actions, not their downfalls. Rest in peace.
    Last edited by DrewOnFire; 02-24-2008 at 06:45 PM. Reason: Came off cold.
    Drew Lyman,
    "Dear Chief, much has happened since we talked last..."

  24. #24
    Truckie
    SPFDRum's Avatar
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    This isn't one beer two hours ago, .27 is sloppy *** drunk. Did the guys in his company know he was drinking that much?
    Do you or anybody else here have a copy of the toxicology report? Or are all these statements based on conjecture and what was leaked from the mayors office?
    Myself, I will refrain from passing judgement on these 2 individuals until all the information is released.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

  25. #25
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    GreasePolice's Avatar
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    I have to say that there are a lot more of these grease filled kitchen exhaust systems out there. It makes me sick to my stomach that companies are allowed to get away with it.

    It is becoming a real issue in our industry, zero accountability for kitchen exhaust cleaners, and guys are getting hurt.

    We took these pictures shortly after the exhaust cleaning "service" was done. I sure hope the guy at least got a reach around.

    Matt Bryan
    The Grease Police
    http://thegreasepolice.org/firehazard.html

    "This exhaust cleaning service has long suffered from an inconsistent and shoddy level of workmanship,
    leaving both Authority Having Jurisdictions and restaurant owners unsure of what sort of service has been performed." - Phil Ackland

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