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  1. #1
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    Default Mark Rey faces jail for using environmentally toxic chemicals??

    Mark Rey is trying to keep out of being put in jail by a Judge in Montana. It seems that the Forest Service Employees for Environmental Ethics has been working to get the Forest Service to quit using chemicals that harm fish.

    A judge may rule that Mark is in contempt of court for not providing environmental impact statements about the chemicals that are deadly to fish.

    Here is the link to the article:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/environmen...l=7&thispage=1

    This may be bad for firefighters. As far as I know there are very few other retardants that can be dropped that do not kill fish or contain Nonylphenol ethoxylates which changes the sex of fish. One of them that does not use nonyphenols is Barricade Gel. Most other polymer gels including Thermogel use nonyphenols except for a few very small companies. Some of these retardants use raw polymer crystals mixed on site to avoid the toxic chemicals.

    The Forest Service has been using toxic chemicals for years to fight fires. They have refused to use environment friendly chemicals. I do not know why when there are alternatives. If they decided to switch to greener alternatives more companies would develop the needed products.

    I wonder if this group is successful in banning many of the retardants in use today how will this will change the future of wildland firefighting.


  2. #2
    Forum Member RangerJake72's Avatar
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    Default

    most likely due to cost, after all, the government goes by the lowest bid for most anything it gets, and unfortunately the environmentally friendly retardants are generally more expensive

  3. #3
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    Default

    jollyrgr, you said there are alternatives, what are they? What effective retardants are out there that do not harm fish?

    Brad

  4. #4
    Forum Member FortechFEO's Avatar
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    Default Mr. Rey maybe heading to jail!

    The deal is three options for the judge.
    #1 Jail Mr. Rey
    #2 House arrest for Mr. Rey
    #3 Ban all use of retardant

    The third is probably unlikely since this judge being from Montana and several convos from fire realizes what the impacts of three would be. We shall see what happens.

    This is all I can give you through my agency knowldege.

  5. #5
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    Default Link to nonylphenol article

    Here is a link to an article in Fire Rescue:
    http://www.firerescue1.com/fire-prod...leases/310412/

    It contains some info on Barricade and nonylphenols.

    Basically barricade uses vegetable oil and the others use mineral oil. You can safely eat vegetable oil, but I do not think I would want to eat mineral oil.

    Nonylphenols are use as surfactants and are basically banned everywhere but the USA. They mimic estrogen in the wild and turn male fish into female fish in lakes and streams. This would explain the changes in some of the wildland firefighters I work with, just kidding

    I have read through the last couple of years about other companies that use non-toxic or gender bending chemicals for wildland firefighting and I am too busy to research this issue and post them right this second, but I do know there are some. If anyone knows of any please post them.

    I will try to post them as soon as I can.

    For the industry to move on the Forest Service has to quit using toxic or gender bending chemicals. If they do not there is no incentive for these companies to develop chemicals that will not damage our health when they are dumped on us from the air.

    We have enough problems with the toxic air we breathe from burning homes. All that vaporized metal, plastic and pesticides in a home has to go somewhere during a fire, and if you are breathing the smoke it gets in your lungs, but that is another story.

    Stay safe

  6. #6
    Forum Member FortechFEO's Avatar
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    Red face he's free!

    Mr. Rey has been cleared. An let walk away. He's pretty slick though. I just hope that you folks don't listen to what he really says. Congress has caught him lying a couple of times to them while he was testifying about FED fire jobs and recruitment and retention strategies. Here's the article about his freedom! I was hoping he would get sent to the clink for a couple days it would have given me a chuckle or two!


    http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2...cal/news02.txt

  7. #7
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    Default Old Thread, but relevant topic.

    The use of Nonylphenol Ethoxylates (NPEs) is controversial; there's no doubt about that. More and more definitive research is available to show that wildlife exposed to NPEs have a much higher risk of birth defects than control animals. NPEs are banned in Europe. American & European chemical companies are doing everything they can to keep the NPE money rolling in. The question was asked about why the Forest Service still uses products that contain NPEs. If you look at the toxicity testing done by the forest service, it primarily focuses on harmful effects from up to 96 hours of exposure to a chemical. NPEs harm the next generation, so they fall outside of that test criteria. It's not only firefighting products used by the forest service that are problems. Fuel control methods to kill and eliminate underbrush often have high levels of NPEs and petroleum distillates.

    We need to convince the powers-that-be to rid themselves of NPE laden products.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Do they work? Really the only valid question. Or is there an equally as good subsitiute for same cost?

    The enviro wackos used their religious "beliefs" to have DDT banned a generation ago. Resulted in the death of millions of humans. Now we find all their bleating was total BS. Dozens of similar "the sky is falling" campaigns from the left tends to make one a skeptic.

  9. #9
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    Default Yes, both types work..

    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Do they work? Really the only valid question. Or is there an equally as good subsitiute for same cost?

    The enviro wackos used their religious "beliefs" to have DDT banned a generation ago. Resulted in the death of millions of humans. Now we find all their bleating was total BS. Dozens of similar "the sky is falling" campaigns from the left tends to make one a skeptic.
    The alternatives are cost-effective and as capable as the NPE/petroleum distillate versions. Cost per gallon for fire gel concentrates is about equal, firefighting capability is about equal. All that's left to ask yourself is this: "Why use a product that has NPEs and petroleum distillates in it when there are products out there that don't, and they work just as good?"

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