1. #1
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    Default Great Incident Command Video

    We have had a lot of people talking about this video for Incident Command Training. Check it out here:

    http://www.thebravestonline.com/news...view=1&id=4276

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    The link doesn't work for me...

    Anyone else having trouble???
    Firefighter/EMT
    My words stated here do not necessarily point towards organizations which I am affiliated with.

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    worked fine for me

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFxplr326 View Post
    The link doesn't work for me...

    Anyone else having trouble???
    Same for me...
    Luke

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    Worked fine, nice job to Pontiac FD.

    Anyone else ever wonder how far we've come? Imagine the terror a fire like that would have caused 150 years ago?

    Once again, nice efficient work.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Liked hearing a calm, cool and collective IC for a change.

    Wonder if the attack line knew exactly the predicament they almost were in when the fire got behind them? Pretty exciting.
    Last edited by DrewOnFire; 02-25-2008 at 09:42 PM.
    Drew Lyman,
    "Dear Chief, much has happened since we talked last..."

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    Great video
    ------------------------------------
    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
    ------------------------------------

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    Not working for me, but I'm at work....... Will try again at home.....
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
    IACOJ

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    Did I miss it or does Pontiac run a Squad type truck as the ladder company? I heard the IC radio L1 but didn't see anything that resembled an aerial. Not that truck work can't be done without the aerial, but I'd think Pontiac must be plenty busy and truly would need an aerial.

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    Great job!

    Love the calm, cool head of the IC. Obviously not his first gig!!
    Jason Knecht
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Did I miss it or does Pontiac run a Squad type truck as the ladder company? I heard the IC radio L1 but didn't see anything that resembled an aerial
    I have no idea what they run, but I also did not see a ladder there. That was a nice video.

    O, and great job Pontiac!

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    Default Pontiac

    Pontiac is a neighboring city. I know they run ladder 1 as a squad on residential fires and I think they jump to a quint for highrise or commercial fires. 5 pumps, 3 ALS rescues, 1 ladder, and 1 Batt. They just won hard fight with the city to keep min. manning and ems allmost laid of aprox. 40-50 firefighters. Over 9000 calls a year population aprox 60,000 poverty level of around 23%.

    WTFD Local 1335

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    While this incident commander is certainly calm, I would feel better operating at a fire where he actually got out of his vehicle! And instead of changing the angle of the camera, maybe he should be talking a walk around the building.

    Do other departments operate like this? Pros? Cons?

    And I am not sure it is the best idea to stretch the initial attack line up the FIRE ESCAPE!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    While this incident commander is certainly calm, I would feel better operating at a fire where he actually got out of his vehicle! And instead of changing the angle of the camera, maybe he should be talking a walk around the building.

    Do other departments operate like this? Pros? Cons?

    And I am not sure it is the best idea to stretch the initial attack line up the FIRE ESCAPE!!
    I believe I've heard Chief Brunacini brag about his chiefs not getting out of the car, that they run the fire from their steering wheel?

    Walk around the structure. A definite, someone should, early on. Sometimes when I was Chief if was the ops chief.

    Using the camera. Well, it was on, he just moved it. I've shot video, i would set it up on the tripod and let it run. Although I got a sense that he was conscious that it was on, he seemed to be hesitant when he talked, but maybe that's a Michigan speech pattern. lol

    Operating off fire escape. We don't have them in my jurisdiction, but I think you may have a valid point there.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    I am a big proponent for IC's getting out of their car as well.

    Having said that, there are variables to consider. We do not have aides here. The only way the IC can be on the fire ground channel and monitor the main dispatch channel is to be in the car OR right on top of someone operating on the fire scene - like the first in engine Driver. Many of our chiefs have begun operating like this. They stand somewhere near the first in engine which is normally in a decent place for command of a house or apartment and coordinate radio communications with the Alarm Office on the main dispatch channel through him (the Driver.) These chiefs seem to be the Veterans that rode busy companies for many years and do a good jobs allowing their companies to go to work. When they do talk on the radio, they are sound GREAT!! They remain calm and project a Command presence.

    Other chiefs who have an ego to protect and must be the "voice of command" on the radio will not get out of their car so they can do all the talking on both channels by themselves! They are typically young Chiefs who got promoted through various office assignments or slow companies. They sound horrible on the radio as they are screaming orders to companies. They generally do great at initiating strategies and tactics that ensure the building will burn to the F'ing ground.

    As far as this video goes - sure the guy was calm, but you shouldn't have to instruct all of your companies with every little assignment as soon as you get there. Hopefully they new to pull an attack line without being told.
    Last edited by MemphisE34a; 02-27-2008 at 11:02 PM.
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    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    In my current volunteer station, our chiefs will normally run command from their cars. The ems commander (fire does not provide ems) will join command in the command car as well. There is normally another officer completing a 360 of the building and reporting to command. If there are enough officers on scene (which there normally are), officers will be assigned various sides or corners (A,B,C,D). Along with the exterior officer, there will also be interior officer as well. This officer will be the reporting officer from the interior. Therefore, you will have One overall command, exterior officer, interior officer, and ems command. If need be, you can also create additional aspects to the command areas as well (stagging officer, water supply, etc.)

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    I can't imagine a chief here sitting in his car at a fire. As for "incident command", it seemed more like micromanaging. Nearly everything he was ordering or talking about are automatic tasks here. You would not hear anywhere near that amount of radio from a scene here. I suspect this might be because the chief is ON the scene able to see exactly is going on, not IN his car ordering what lines are to be used off of which engine and what hydrant to use and who should get it. When the crew asked (three times before the chief understood them) for ventilation I had to ask - what were the trucks doing? Not opening the roof, thats for sure. Why would you have to ask for that? At a fire here, the engines get hydrants, lead out lines and attack the fire while the trucks are making the roof, venting, forcing entry, searching, laddering the building - all automatically without the chief having to say a word to anyone. Everyone knows their job and does it and when the chief gets there he pretty much knows where all his companies are and what they are doing. If this is their system, I guess it's ok - I just don't think it's much of a system.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Seemed to be micromanaged a bit. However, the men made a nice stop on the fire. Whatever works to get the job done.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT View Post
    Seemed to be micromanaged a bit. However, the men made a nice stop on the fire. Whatever works to get the job done.
    Oh sure, make me look like the jerk.... I never said it wasn't a nice stop!
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    IC should not be running around on the fireground with the distractions going on there. They should be sitting back, taking in the big picture and thinking two steps ahead of what is going on. I don't like the idea of companies just doing things without being ordered, that could make the situation worse. "Pretty much knows whats going" is not good enough for me. This a textbook example how IC should work.
    Not ripping on you or your department FF but that is how it's done here and most places across the country. But if your department varys it, more power to you. I guess each his own, whatever works to get the job done. There is no universal answer to everything!

    I would agree it is a little micro managing, slightly. Instead of telling a crew to ventilate with a saw and blah blah blah, or the first in engine to pull a line and do this or that.....IC should give the order, not tell them how to carry out that order.

    What I do, and is standard practice in my area, is when I arrive, I do a walk around noting any hazards, hydrant locations, etc. and then get back to my truck. After the initial walk around, I rarely leave the vehicle.
    Last edited by Dickey; 02-28-2008 at 02:31 AM.
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    All I could think of was the movie Office Space

    "58 to all companies on the fireground, if you could just go ahead and do your jobs that would be grrreat...mmmk, thaaaaanks"

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    Knowing the following..

    The position you are riding for the day; Officer, Tiller, etc.
    The type of piece that conpany is; Engine, Truck etc.
    Type of response; single company or full box assignment.
    The position due of your company; first due engine, second due ladder etc.
    Type of structure and confirmation upon arrival; SFD, row house, highrise etc.
    Initial size-up and an ongoing size-up
    When I assume duty for the tour and plug these examples in along with some others not listed, it eliminates the need to be told what to do probably 95% of the time. Those factors tell myself and my company where we’re supposed to be in the building and what our responsibilities are. Most of the time the traffic heard over the radio is to hold up, progress reports and other safety considerations.
    Last edited by R1SAlum; 02-28-2008 at 10:09 AM.

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    Did anyone else pick up on the fact he was working with some "green" help?I heard the words ROOKIES mentioned.Looks like the fire had been working awhile prior to the depts arrival. T.C.

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    Fire was put out...

    However...micromanaged completely unprofesional that they need so much hand holding....obviously their cheifs are control freaks who are unwilling to trust their men and subordinate officers with any amount of responsibility. Which also means the Chiefs haven't done their job in properly preparing and drilling their men or developing procedures that need to be followed in the absence of this Chief.

    Needed to be told to stretch a line (via a fire escape no less)!
    Needed to be told to search!
    MPO needed to be told to assist other Engine and who to stretch off of!
    ....etc...etc...

    If this Chief wasn't there how would Engine 5 and Engine 1 operated?

    Way to much talking and superfoulous discussion and what should be pre-established duties and command. Do they not know how many men are on each company...do they not know how many companies are responding and what due each one is? If this information isn't a surprise then neither should be their initial duties upon arrival at a fire.

    Also this "chief" should get out of his vehicle....hard to get the big picture when you isolate yourself from the fireground....he might as well stay at the firehouse and call it in from there!

    Once again I'm just glad my chiefs don't operate or act as they do in this joint.

    If this is a textbook example of how ICS works...then I want nothing to do with it....re-wrote the book on how a fire would be fought when he pulled up front. What a joke.

    This is nothing more than how we operated to a large degree prior to WWII (except without radios) it was believed at the time that there were too many variables to allow for pre-assigned duties....that concept was proven false over 4 decades ago and we still have "professional" depts operating like this? So much for the "progressive" movement in the fire service!

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    I don't like the idea of companies just doing things without being ordered, that could make the situation worse. "Pretty much knows whats going" is not good enough for me. This a textbook example how IC should work.
    What if the chief is delayed? We often arrive before a chief. Depending on whats going on around you it could be several minutes before a chief gets there. Does he need to be there to tell everyone what to do? Like I said, with our system a chief arriving to a fire (obviously there are more assignments specifically given as extra alarms are pulled) pretty much knows where his first and second engines are and what they are doing and where his first and second trucks are and what they are doing. Of course there are variables, but everyone knows their job and what to do. My own officer doesn't even tell me what line to pull (usually ), much less the chief. He expects me to know and do the right thing.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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