1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    142

    Default Opinions please....

    No more. This thread is done.
    Last edited by DugdogFiredog; 03-06-2008 at 05:41 AM.

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    142

    Default

    crap crap crap
    Last edited by DugdogFiredog; 03-06-2008 at 01:49 AM.

  3. #3
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Potential for the chimney to collapse on the guys standing there...

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Northwest OH
    Posts
    355

    Default

    you need a fire engine on the other end of those hoses to make sure the fire doesnt end up like that...

    seriously though, I cant see a whole lot with this one right now..I mean it looks like clean up phase, and i see someone without gear on right up front (no not the firefighter wannabe aka cop)

    not sure what the two guys crawling around are doing
    Last edited by FireDawgEMT22; 03-02-2008 at 12:35 AM.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    MemphisE34a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Memphis, TN - USA
    Posts
    2,531

    Thumbs down

    What is wrong is that none of us were there! Were you?
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  6. #6
    EuroFirefighter
    Batt18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    509

    Default

    DugDog great picture! It speaks a thousand words. You DON'T have to have been there to get something out of this learning tool! Take the picture and put it on the wall of your firehouse - ask the same question. The answer is so obvious its glaring you in the face!

    95 views and STILL nobody can see it! Amazing.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    fireman4949's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    2,323

    Default

    The only thing I can see is the potential collapse hazard from the two chimneys...Hopefully someone (who knew what they were looking at)evaluated their condition before letting guys dig the scene.

    Either way, they need to be pulled down before they kill someone.

    I realize that cause and origin of this fire is very important due to the fatality, but I'd be extremely wary of letting anyone dig the scene with those still standing.
    Last edited by fireman4949; 03-02-2008 at 06:34 AM.
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
    IAFF Local 2339
    K of C 4th Degree
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    Member I.A.C.O.J.
    http://www.tfdfire.com/
    "Fir na tine"

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Hampton, Virginia
    Posts
    145

    Default Observation

    Let's see...
    • Police officer inside the yellow tape (IDLH zone) without PPE
    • Firefighter backing up the handline without PPE (civilian clothes)
    • 2 firefighters on knees
    • 2 very obvious chimmney stacks ready to collapse
    • Icy ground conditions posing a falling hazard to personnel on scene
    • Cold conditions will expand any water that is seeped into chimmney stacks increasing chance of collaps
    • Nobody wearing scba during overhaul
    • No scene safety officer

    We can sit here and critique this until we are blue in the face. It come down to common sense and I don't see anyone on this scene using it.

  9. #9
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kferrara2002 View Post
    Let's see...
    • Police officer inside the yellow tape (IDLH zone) without PPE
    • Firefighter backing up the handline without PPE (civilian clothes)
    • 2 firefighters on knees
    • 2 very obvious chimmney stacks ready to collapse
    • Icy ground conditions posing a falling hazard to personnel on scene
    • Cold conditions will expand any water that is seeped into chimmney stacks increasing chance of collaps
    • Nobody wearing scba during overhaul
    • No scene safety officer

    We can sit here and critique this until we are blue in the face. It come down to common sense and I don't see anyone on this scene using it.
    Is the guy on the line wearing jeans?

    Hard to tell....
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    DrewOnFire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DugdogFiredog View Post
    What do you feel is wrong with this picture? Fire occurred in Grove City, PA 29FEB08. 1 civilian fatality, 2 firefighters hurt, one is in the hospital in critical condition with burns to 50% of his body.
    Other than the fact you're trying to start some **** with another departments fire operation (Sharpsville to Grove City is 40 minute drive). I see a fire with a civilian fatality, 2 injured FF's and one dude from 40 miles away arm chair quarterbacking another persons fire?

    I may be totally off base, but whatever, it is a forum and we can all hide behind a profile and bash neighboring departments!
    Drew Lyman,
    "Dear Chief, much has happened since we talked last..."

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,063

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by DrewOnFire View Post
    Other than the fact you're trying to start some **** with another departments fire operation (Sharpsville to Grove City is 40 minute drive). I see a fire with a civilian fatality, 2 injured FF's and one dude from 40 miles away arm chair quarterbacking another persons fire?

    I may be totally off base, but whatever, it is a forum and we can all hide behind a profile and bash neighboring departments!
    what he said

  12. #12
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,970

    Default

    A couple thoughts.........
    Quote Originally Posted by kferrara2002 View Post
    Let's see...
    • Police officer inside the yellow tape (IDLH zone) without PPE
      Inside the yellow tape is not specifically a "IDLH zone" and I don't see a problem with PD simply being "inside the yellow tape".
    • Firefighter backing up the handline without PPE (civilian clothes)
      Is he backing up the handline? Considering what the building looks like, is it possible that it could be the fire marshall?
    • 2 firefighters on knees
      Only really an issue because of the nearby collapse hazard, since we're supposed to be on our knees inside the building, right?
    • 2 very obvious chimmney stacks ready to collapse
      Exactly!
    • Icy ground conditions posing a falling hazard to personnel on scene
    • Cold conditions will expand any water that is seeped into chimmney stacks increasing chance of collaps
    • Nobody wearing scba during overhaul
      Considering the picture, I'm not sure if I'd call what they are doing "overhaul" and I don't see a true need for SCBA from this moment in time pictured.
    • No scene safety officer
      How do you know this? The fact that these guys are operating within a collapse zone doesn't mean that there isn't a safety officer on scene.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Ocala, Florida
    Posts
    222

    Default Prayers instead of "Opinions"

    Quote Originally Posted by DugdogFiredog View Post
    What do you feel is wrong with this picture? Fire occurred in Grove City, PA 29FEB08. 1 civilian fatality, 2 firefighters hurt, one is in the hospital in critical condition with burns to 50% of his body.
    My "Opinions" I'll keep to myself! Instead how about some prayers for the Firefighter who's burnt over 50% of his body?
    Take Care & be SAFE
    Bert

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    142

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by DrewOnFire View Post
    Other than the fact you're trying to start some **** with another departments fire operation (Sharpsville to Grove City is 40 minute drive). I see a fire with a civilian fatality, 2 injured FF's and one dude from 40 miles away arm chair quarterbacking another persons fire?

    I may be totally off base, but whatever, it is a forum and we can all hide behind a profile and bash neighboring departments!
    I'm not trying to start anything, and I am no armchair quarterback. I see this as a big potential hazard at a scene, and feel people should learn from it. That is all!!! And prayers to firefighters Scott King and Brad Holmes. Especially Brad Holmes, he is still in critical condition with burns to over 50% of his body. Scott King has been released and is recovering at home.

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DugdogFiredog View Post
    20 views thus far and no one has an opinion on what is and or may be wrong with this picture. Come on folks...hehe.
    This is the post that got a lot of people ticked off. The "hehe" at the end was the icing on the cake.

    Everyone forgets that a photograph is a 1/60th to 1/1000th slice in time, depending on the shutter speed of the camera. Camera angles can make things look different, too...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  16. #16
    EuroFirefighter
    Batt18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    509

    Default

    It is a tragedy for the firefighter who has been severely burned and he is certainly in my thoughts.

    I do not see this should prevent the posting of a picture such as this for discussion and as a learning tool. It is not relevant to his injuries nor is it relevant to firefighting operations. I would say there was no need to cite the fire location or injury details in order to pose this question.

    It is a good question and if it makes firefighters, company officers and chiefs pause and think, then it has served a valid purpose, even at this stage. We have all made mistakes. We have all missed classic hazard warnings and the more opportunities we get to install this information in our minds the better. This is not to criticize this is to prevent it occurring again. Even tonight, this same hazard could present itself somewhere.

  17. #17
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    142

    Default My original point to this post.....

    Thank you all with the educated responses. My original point to this post was the potential collapse hazard, but a few others are trying to turn this into something else, i.e. a bashing session. That, it is not!!! I know the departments that responded to this fire, I work with them on occasion during large training exercises, and I would never bash them. They are more than capable! This fire was a nightmare from the get go for these guys, bad weather conditions, frozen hydrants, confirmed entrapment. I'm just trying to see if anyone else sees what I see in the photograph, which most of you do. Thank you, and stay safe all.
    Last edited by DugdogFiredog; 03-02-2008 at 03:14 PM.

  18. #18
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Best wishes to the firefighters who were injured and of course to the family of the deceased occupant.

    I think that any department should be able to withstand some constructive criticism. I think it would've been in better taste not to name the department in the post.

    There are some good observations and so far most of the criticism is fair.

    We had a LODD in my county from a falling chimney, so I think that for the purpose of preventing other LODD's, reviewing operations like this is a good thing.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    backsteprescue123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    4,319

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    A couple thoughts.........
    You literally took every single word right out of my mouth.
    ------------------------------------
    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
    ------------------------------------

  20. #20
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Northwest OH
    Posts
    355

    Default

    Well I would assume the chimneys have been evaluated otherwise no one would be in there.

  21. #21
    Forum Member
    TNFF319's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Collierville, TN
    Posts
    628

    Default

    The cop car is grey instead of white.
    FF/Paramedic

  22. #22
    makes good girls go bad
    BLSboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    On the beach, Fla/OCNJ
    Posts
    2,859

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kferrara2002 View Post
    Let's see...
    • Police officer inside the yellow tape (IDLH zone) without PPE
      Who says he is a cop? Perhaps fire investigator? And you wear full PPE with SCBA on a mop up on a pile of rubble?
    • Firefighter backing up the handline without PPE (civilian clothes)
    • 2 firefighters on kneesI don't even know what to say. How do YOU fight fires? Perhaps if you want a crusty looking lid you stand up, but if my footing is bad, high heat, or smoke banked down, I'm on floor, or trying to keep my center of gravity low.
    • 2 very obvious chimmney stacks ready to collapse
      Perhaps they were evaluated by a structural engineer. Who are we to say?
    • Icy ground conditions posing a falling hazard to personnel on scene
      So if it is 32 degrees or below, we don't fight fire??
    • Cold conditions will expand any water that is seeped into chimmney stacks increasing chance of collaps
    • Nobody wearing scba during overhaulEver hear of air monitoring?
    • No scene safety officerIt is ONE PICTURE. Lemme guess, there is no Fire Engine either?

    We can sit here and critique this until we are blue in the face. It come down to common sense and I don't see anyone on this scene using it.
    And I don't see anyone in this this thread using it either. Way to throw your Brothers under the bus without knowing all the facts!

    FTM-PTB
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
    Member, IACOJ.
    FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

  23. #23
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    142

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by TNFF319 View Post
    The cop car is grey instead of white.
    Funny. Thanks for putting a smile on my face today!

  24. #24
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    142

    Default Firestorm

    Geesh, I didn't mean to start a firestorm here guys.

  25. #25
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,702

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DugdogFiredog View Post
    ... My original point to this post was the potential collapse hazard...
    Then you should have simply stated that with the picture.

    You meant to bash. You got called on it. You are backpedalling.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. I just want opinions.
    By tfdping1018 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-01-2007, 07:39 PM
  2. Need some opinions?
    By miked2424 in forum Hiring & Employment Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-03-2007, 03:40 PM
  3. need opinions
    By Tann3100 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 01-26-2007, 08:36 PM
  4. Need opinions on something.
    By volunteer/519 in forum Volunteer Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-28-2002, 02:28 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register