1. #1
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    Default Deleted thread.

    Deleted thread.
    Last edited by simsride; 08-30-2011 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Information is no longer applicable.

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    Maybe not a trick question, but a trick answer.

    Although considered management by our Administration (BC's and above) many BC's maintain their membership even though they cannot be represented by such in times of negotiations or hearings.

    Having said that, the ones that remain are dues paying members and therefore are eligible and afforded other benefits of dues paying members - travel, attorney representation, insurance, etc.

    The City of Memphis operates 56 engines, 28 trucks, 3 Heavy Rescues, 14 Battalions, and 2 Divisions. There are also 33 ambulances and 3 or 4 EMS supervisory staff. With administartive, training, prevention, investigation, fire alarm office, & shop personnel our numbers are around 1900 + or -.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    They are not recognized as bargaining unit members by the state, but some of them keep their dues up and attend the social functions that the local holds.

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    Our battalion chiefs are full union members. BC, here anyway, is the last legit, tested rank, and is in charge of one of the three shifts at 4 or 5 five fire houses (it depends on the battallion - usually 4). Beyond that are called "exempt ranks" which includes deputy district chief and district chief (there are six districts here - deputies are 24 hr 3 shifts, district chiefs are eight hours.). These are non-tested, appointed positions. I think our BC's belong in the union because they are tested positions, not clout jobs (well...at least they take a test! I'm sure clout doesn't hurt! ). I don't know if this helps or not.
    Last edited by ChicagoFF; 03-03-2008 at 10:00 PM.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Our shift BC's are union members. They work 24's and stay with the same shift until retirement. They are able to voice opinions during union meetings just like anybody else. I think this is a benefit because we bargin for everybody. There is no bargining for separate ranks.
    The BC's that work 40 hrs are also union members and participate like any other union member.

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    Until the last contract, every Chief of Department in my hometown was a member of the union. I would have to assume that this made every Assistant Chief and Deputy Chief (their version of a BC) union members as well.

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    Captains and Battalion Chiefs are in the same local. Doesn't matter if they're on the line or in headquarters they all pay full dues.. Deputy Chiefs are their own offshoot of the officers local.

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    You might get more responses if it were in a different forum.

    Not really tactical question...
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    I am a BC and we are in the same union as the rank and file. There are advantages and disadvantages. I like and respect the unioin, so I am proud to be a member.
    I do believe, however, that we do not get the pay representation that we should. When it comes to pay, BC's on my job are paid low when compared to neighboring cities.
    Our neighbors (LA City) have a Chief Officer's Association that negotiates benefits and wages directly. They are much better compensated than we are.
    Paul Lepore
    Battalion Chief
    www.aspiringfirefighters.com

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    Default BCs in Union

    In Polk County (FL), the battalion chiefs are part of the union, but in a separate bargaining unit from lieutenant and below. No one above BC is in the union.

    We have a pretty good relationship and so far it has worked out fine.

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    From the Fire Chief himself to the pipeman with the least time in, all members should be in the union.

    There is no such thing as management within the command structure of the fire department. No one in the command structure should be representing the city government--they should be representing the firefighters and the citizens they protect. The idea of considering officers of any rank as "management" is inimical to the fire service and dangerous to morale. Fire Chiefs who do not do everythign in their power to get the best they can for their men are not worth the tin bag on their chests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    From the Fire Chief himself to the pipeman with the least time in, all members should be in the union.

    There is no such thing as management within the command structure of the fire department. No one in the command structure should be representing the city government--they should be representing the firefighters and the citizens they protect. The idea of considering officers of any rank as "management" is inimical to the fire service and dangerous to morale. Fire Chiefs who do not do everything in their power to get the best they can for their men are not worth the tin bag on their chests.
    question, and this is only a question, nothing more: if all personnel are in the union, and the FF gets suspended for something by the chief/AC/BC/Captain, and the union wants to appeal it, do they end up filing a grievance against the city or the offending party?

    can a union member file a complaint against a fellow union member?

    If the Chief makes a decision that is beneficial for the city and department (say, cutting 10% of salaries across the board to trim the dept budget), but is detrimental to the uniformed personnel (for the obvious reasons), can a union file a complaint if the chief is in the union?
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

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    All of our grievances are filed against "the city" A person can't file a grievance against another individual. They may file a grievance against a persons actions, but none of our grievances will be Smith v. Smith. They are "a member of local X v. City of X"

    My state, Iowa, has pretty clear collective bargaining rights, and a grievance is a very specific item. It means that a specific item of the contract was violated on a specific date. All grievances are "issues" but not all issues are grievances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrParasite View Post
    question, and this is only a question, nothing more: if all personnel are in the union, and the FF gets suspended for something by the chief/AC/BC/Captain, and the union wants to appeal it, do they end up filing a grievance against the city or the offending party?

    can a union member file a complaint against a fellow union member?

    If the Chief makes a decision that is beneficial for the city and department (say, cutting 10% of salaries across the board to trim the dept budget), but is detrimental to the uniformed personnel (for the obvious reasons), can a union file a complaint if the chief is in the union?
    I don't see why we couldn't. Families have fights all the time, and union members have fights all the time.

    I can imagine circumstances that might require cutting salaries, and if it's approached in the proper way (I recall across the board paycuts taken instead of layoffs in some department. I don't know which, and maybe it's apocryphal) I can see it working. We have a contract, so it would take some doing to reduce our pay.

    Members here file grievances against the actions of other members all the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    You might get more responses if it were in a different forum.

    Not really tactical question...

    I was going to say that, but I felt that no one would listen
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

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