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    Default "Active Firefighter" definition

    I attended a grant workshop this year where it was asked of the FEMA rep what FEMA's definition of an "active firefighter" was. He stated that we as the fire company, would have to make that determination.

    So, what is everyone doing?

    How would you classify driver/operators and those personnel who are not interior firefighters such as fire police? Would you consider them active firefighters?

    What does everyone think?
    Ryan A. Zerbe
    Assistant Chief
    Womelsdorf Volunteer Fire Company
    Home of "Barney's Bandits" and the "Route 422 Express"
    www.womelsdorffire.com

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    A good question Barney: I am in the same dilemma , As we have quite a few members that are not interior certified but do a lot of important positions such as water supply , tanker operators pump operators and engineer , safety officer, rehab & air bottle fill station operators. All of these "support " personnel are required for our interior FF1 & FF2's to complete their tasks. in a safe manner. many also are cross trained EMT's whose eyes and ears help to protect all fireground personnel.

    Short answer to me is they are active FF's and valued members. Just need to explain that part carefully in the narrative& hope you get by the computer.

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    If it were my decision, I would consider active firefighters as those as fire officers and interior firefighters. Those who are STRICTLY fire police officers, driver/operators, and personnel who function outside I would consider support personnel. They would all fall under as a "fire dept. member". I just wish AFG would give us a definition to work with. Each person/company has their own definition and it may not be what they are looking for. Technically, there is two things in there to define, "active" and "firefighter".
    Ryan A. Zerbe
    Assistant Chief
    Womelsdorf Volunteer Fire Company
    Home of "Barney's Bandits" and the "Route 422 Express"
    www.womelsdorffire.com

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    AFG's definition:

    Active Firefighter: A member in good standing who is qualified to respond to and extinguish fires and has actively participated in firefighting in the past year
    .

    The only personnel that I eliminated from the count as active firefighters were the house mouse and dispatcher. The count includes the operators which do interior also.

    I would think that fire/police will depend on their function; if just traffic control, then I would not count them.

    When you talk about "function outside" would they ever fight the fire from the exterior (surround & drown), work at outside fires with hoselines etc. If so, they would fall within the defintion.

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    Default Active FF

    I think that I would define it based on the need for grant. I am writing for PPE so in part my need for PPE will influence who is active. In this case I have the two criteria - who needs firefighting PPE - that being the case - interior, exterior, and most likely drivers need firefighting PPE. Fire Police would not be what I would consider "active FF" due to different PPE need and they do not actively extinguish fires (although they do one of the most dangerous jobs on the fire ground).

    Then the next issue is who is active - I have informally reviewed the list with some of the chief officers but my thought is those that make a fire every so often. We do have LOSAP program so those show who are the active but those that just make the big calls and the required drills - still help and in this case need proper PPE.

    That is at least my approach.

    Sean Kelleher
    QSFD

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    I will carry this a little further.

    NFPA has three levels of training in its firefighter curriculim.

    3.3.2 is for candidate
    3.3.3 is for Firefighter 1, capable of operating under direct supervision
    3.3.4 is for Firefighter II, capable of operating under general supervision.

    Now, as long as all my people have met the standards for Candidate, and
    are working towards FF I, or FF II, would I still not be compliant, as I could certifiy that all my firefighters meet NFPA 1001?

    I see it as sort of like a drivers license. In MO you now have a license system where you get a drivers license with restrictions when you are 16 (like Candidate), at 18 if you have not had issues you get less restrictions, (like FF I) when 21 you get the regular license to drive (like FFII)

    Even a Candidate is complying with NFPA 1001, he is "certfied" to that level
    of Candidate, according to 3.3.2 is he not?

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    BTW, NFPA 1001 is available online at

    http://www.potsdamfire.org/content/t...A1001-2002.pdf

    At least for now, till NFPA gets wind of it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    BTW, NFPA 1001 is available online at

    http://www.potsdamfire.org/content/t...A1001-2002.pdf

    At least for now, till NFPA gets wind of it...
    Its takes a Missouri brother to find it for everyone.

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    one of these days I will get a real job and not have time for searching that stuff out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by quaker49 View Post
    I think that I would define it based on the need for grant. I am writing for PPE so in part my need for PPE will influence who is active. In this case I have the two criteria - who needs firefighting PPE - that being the case - interior, exterior, and most likely drivers need firefighting PPE. Fire Police would not be what I would consider "active FF" due to different PPE need and they do not actively extinguish fires (although they do one of the most dangerous jobs on the fire ground).

    Then the next issue is who is active - I have informally reviewed the list with some of the chief officers but my thought is those that make a fire every so often. We do have LOSAP program so those show who are the active but those that just make the big calls and the required drills - still help and in this case need proper PPE.

    That is at least my approach.

    Sean Kelleher
    QSFD
    You make a good poiint there ,especially if you just recieved a grant from AFG the previous year and asked for PPE for your fire police and engineers and FFs. Be careful here folks, a computer has a watchful eye!!
    Kurt Bradley
    Public Safety Grants Consultant

    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    I will carry this a little further.

    NFPA has three levels of training in its firefighter curriculim.

    3.3.2 is for candidate
    3.3.3 is for Firefighter 1, capable of operating under direct supervision
    3.3.4 is for Firefighter II, capable of operating under general supervision.

    Now, as long as all my people have met the standards for Candidate, and
    are working towards FF I, or FF II, would I still not be compliant, as I could certifiy that all my firefighters meet NFPA 1001?

    I see it as sort of like a drivers license. In MO you now have a license system where you get a drivers license with restrictions when you are 16 (like Candidate), at 18 if you have not had issues you get less restrictions, (like FF I) when 21 you get the regular license to drive (like FFII)

    Even a Candidate is complying with NFPA 1001, he is "certfied" to that level
    of Candidate, according to 3.3.2 is he not?
    I think you have the right idea here guy. All moving forwrad towards FF1 full certification, but some at different stages of complettion which is where most everyone will fall. All AFG is interested in is that your members are not just sitting around doing nothing towards training and they want to give you the chance to ask for the money if that is the only thing holding your people back from training.
    Kurt Bradley
    Public Safety Grants Consultant

    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    The 2008 edition is out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by morgancity View Post
    The 2008 edition is out.
    That is why they probably won't mind that the 2002 edition is out and about
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

    ** "The comments made here are this person's views and possibly that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

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    Quote Originally Posted by morgancity View Post
    The 2008 edition is out.

    Any major changes?

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    OK...so do they only have to be FF1 certified...or FF1 and FF2?
    John & Sheila
    McMechen Volunteer Fire Department
    "Always Ready Always Faithful"

    www.mcmechenvfd.com
    jdavis@mcmechenvfd.com

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    As Kurt B stated earlier in the thread. The 08 guidence wants to see in your narrative what improvments or plans you have in place to upgrade your department to the FF1/2 standard. I do not believe PG mandates certification for the application.

    Every fireman should strive for this standard. It is basic FF skills and knowlege.

    As far as major changes to 1500, I have only overviewed the new standard somewhat. I will read it in detail. I am in fire prevention, but also responsible for the safety of our department. All departments paid and volunteer should be aware of these standards and have some knowlege of them.

    Education is the key to any successful fire department!

    Only my opinion.

    mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by morgancity View Post
    Education is the key to any successful fire department!

    Only my opinion.

    mark
    Mark--i share your opinion. Our department is 100% (presently) FF1/2 certified. We currently have 8 members going through Fire Officer Strategy and Tactics (FOST). Last Thursday night i grumbled about having to go to the station to sit through the Building Collapse module. When i got home, i used words like "okay", "good review", and so on to tell my wife how it was. The next day, as i watched the news of a building collapse in Salisbury, NC unfold--i wondered if the outcome would have been different if those guys would have had the same "good review" the night before.

    Our department has developed an attitude of training. It's led to a full volunteer roster, nearly double what we had 5 years ago. The certs don't take the place of 15 or 20 years experience, but they give us a better chance of being able to hang around long enough to gain experience. I'm grateful to serve under a Chief and Assistant Chief who are committed to training.

    Obligatory grant content--it's way cool to answer the 1001 question with "100%"!!!

    earl

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    Ditto Greenacres2 on the"100%" It is an achievement for any fire department and personnel to have those certs/training. Firemen are competitive by nature. Lead your county or parish in training,education,leadership,grants,standards, and set the example. The others will be sure to follow!!!!!

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    Training took us from a half roster to a full roster in 5 years, and it wasn't terribly expensive. (which is good--'cuz i seem to suck at SAFER ). The environment it created kind of left some long-timers on the outside looking in--a few guys who came to the business meetings and 6 or 7 calls a year. The commitment came from the top down--great leadership and they enlisted the core group to participate which folded the rest of us into following. It works.

    earl

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    Kudos, I am greatly impressed. Safety starts with attitude and training, and they both run hand in hand in every fire we fight. Firefighting is an on the job training situation to a point. But you have to have the basics and you have to continually build on that base to keep your guys safe. FF1 and FF2 are a great start, but you have to keep your eyes open for new and different training and methods of training. Again, Earl I applaud you and your department, keep up the good work. PS If you figure out SAFER, you know the email address.

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    Lime/Greenacres Good morning!

    I am a past student of Kurt's and recently found out from Kurt about the wealth of information on the forums section. I hope that you will allow me to pick your brains apart.

    It is my understanding that the both of you have made some significant changes to your departments throught these grants. I have already learned alot from the both of you guys and Derrick from Hazard Ky.

    Thanks again,

    mark

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    Hey Morgan,
    There's some real good folks that hang out here. Picking any one of our brains may not help a ton, but together we might make a little sense.

    By the way, Limeforever's first name is Derrick and he's from Hazard, KY also--small world!!

    earl

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    Ok, I got a little confused I have met and talked to many people in the last few days. I did talk with Derrick on the 12th. I picked his brain for 1 hour.

    mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by morgancity View Post
    Ok, I got a little confused I have met and talked to many people in the last few days. I did talk with Derrick on the 12th. I picked his brain for 1 hour.

    mark
    took that long to find it huh?

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    He's still looking, I had him on hold for that long.

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