1. #1
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    Default Brush Fire Tools/Hose

    Reposted from Wildland Forum in hopes of more feedback...

    I am looking for some feedback on a good assortment of tools to carry to work a brush fire while awaiting adequate compliment of brush trucks to arrive. Currently we have brush rakes and a few brooms, but not much else. I'm looking at the pulaski and mcleoud type tools from fire-hooks unlt'd. With no expierence using these tools, I'm asking what would be preferred to cut off the fire using only hand tools. What about expierences with the water jacket vests?

    We also carry 300' of forestry hose in a bag, rolled up, on our structural engine. None of it is connected together. it is 6 rolls, not connected. What is a good way to store this to deploy quickly?

    Thank you in advance.

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    MG- Just a broad question.

    A polaski and McCloud are great all around tools to have. Are you thinking about chainsaws too?

    Please PM me so we can chat on the phone.

    Thanks, Bou

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    Quote Originally Posted by MG3610 View Post
    Reposted from Wildland Forum in hopes of more feedback...

    I am looking for some feedback on a good assortment of tools to carry to work a brush fire while awaiting adequate compliment of brush trucks to arrive. Currently we have brush rakes and a few brooms, but not much else. I'm looking at the pulaski and mcleoud type tools from fire-hooks unlt'd. With no expierence using these tools, I'm asking what would be preferred to cut off the fire using only hand tools. What about expierences with the water jacket vests?

    We also carry 300' of forestry hose in a bag, rolled up, on our structural engine. None of it is connected together. it is 6 rolls, not connected. What is a good way to store this to deploy quickly?

    Thank you in advance.

    Do you have an open top compartment around the pump panel that you could flat lay it into and preconnect it? That's how we have ours. Makes for superfast deployment and works very well. If nothing else could you connect it, then roll it up so that each coupling starts a new roll parallel to each other?
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

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    What type of tools will work well sorta depends on your fuel type and terrain.

    In some cases, such as ours a shovel and brush rake work fine at cutting line in our rock-less soil. We generallly don't need to do more than scrap the pine needles off in about a 8"10" swath and that will stop the spread. Also if we have to cut line we very rarely need to take down any vegataion.

    Your situation may be different.

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    Also might find some info here-

    http://www.fire.ca.gov

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    Pulaski's and McLeoud's are some good universal choices. What tool you need all depends on the fuel type. If you have deep duff and heavy ground fuels, the pulaski is a good choice for grubbing and cutting. If you are fighting fire in more light and open fuels, the mcleoud would work better. Personally, if your already on an engine, get a bigger and better assortment of wildland hose, and leave the hand tools for mop up. I would suggest 1" and 1 1/2" single jacket hose, synthetic, not cotton, because of the weight difference, and in 100' sticks, not a 50' length. If the fire is small enough, 1" will work fine, but if you actually have a good, working brush fire, you will need 1 1/2" for safety. This is the only time I would advocate actually buying a TFT automatic nozzle, but they are the best for wildland fires. A 100 or 125GPM automatic nozzle WITH a pistol grip (again, only for wildland) is your best choice. There are several websites you could look at; The Supply Cache.com, Wildlandfire.com and try the links on these sites. Hope this helps, any questions, PM me on here.
    NorCal Firefighter

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    I agree that if you are working from an engine, your best tool is water. We carry about 300' of forestry hose on our engines, plus the 200' booster, which gives us a practical reach of 500' w/ a line from the street or hard dirt road.

    Our brush truck and quick attack truck also has a 200' reel(s) and another 200-250' of foresrty line, giving it an off-road reach of 400-450'. That will cover 75% of our brush fires, especially if the ground is hard.

    Another factor is how line your line will have to hold. in our case it's rare that our Kwiff (same as a scratch) line will have to hold more than 10 or 15 minutes until more manpower or mutual aid arrives, which is why we can make it so shallow and narrow, requiring only light duty tools. if your line needs to hold longer, it will have to be deeper and wider requiring heavier duty tools and chainsaws.

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    A back pack leaf blower does a good and quick job of clearing a fire line in the right condition.
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    MG3610, if CALFFBOU can't take care of you give me a PM. Equipping and TRAINING a structural FD to do wildland is not an easy task to do right. It Can be done...

    As has already been said, what you need depends on where you are and what fuel types you'll be dealing with. What I need on my engine and brush down here in the desert of central AZ is different then what I would need even 2 hours north...
    "The nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten." - (John) Calvin Coolidge
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    D 8 Caterpillar is a great tool to have handy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrfdengine6 View Post
    D 8 Caterpillar is a great tool to have handy.
    Or a JD 450H with a Power Angle Blade and a Line Plow......... But, I got a feeling that he doesn't have the Compartment space to carry it on his Engine..........


    A couple of Council Rakes, A Pulaski, and a couple of McLoeds should do it for putting in a line by hand almost anywhere. Here in the Eastern Hardwoods, we also use ordinary yard rakes as a fast way to move leaves, when a leaf blower is not available. But, all said, a one inch hose line is my weapon of choice, no matter the distance from the rig to the Fire. We run a 1.5 from the Engine to the Fire, put a 1.5x1x1 wye on it and run 1 inch lines around the Fire. As they say, "Works for us".
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    Im not sure what you call the vegetation (technically). its generally grasses/sticker bushes or leaves. The leaves are easy, its the grassy/sticker bush areas that suck.

    Our brush rigs are set up with plenty of tools. We have something like 800 feet of forestry hose between our engine and the brush rig. We also have the forestry wyes, several chinsaws, lots of rakes and brooms and some assorted shovels and picks.

    I am just wondering if more task specific tools such as the ones I am asking about are a better investment. It sounds like they are.

    Our engine has 400' each of 1 3/4, 2 and 2 1/2" off the rear. Any of these will enable us to run a 700' line with the addition of the forestry hose. Unfortunately, the other day it was out of service and we were using our backup rig.

    Dont get me wrong, we are pretty capable of fighting these fires, and we've purchased alot of better suited equipment over the last 5 years. My main question centers around being stuck on the engine, awaiting sufficient brush rigs to arrive. What are the best tools for us to get the most bang for our buck with about 4 people.

    Thanks for the info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Or a JD 450H with a Power Angle Blade and a Line Plow......... But, I got a feeling that he doesn't have the Compartment space to carry it on his Engine..........


    A couple of Council Rakes, A Pulaski, and a couple of McLoeds should do it for putting in a line by hand almost anywhere. Here in the Eastern Hardwoods, we also use ordinary yard rakes as a fast way to move leaves, when a leaf blower is not available. But, all said, a one inch hose line is my weapon of choice, no matter the distance from the rig to the Fire. We run a 1.5 from the Engine to the Fire, put a 1.5x1x1 wye on it and run 1 inch lines around the Fire. As they say, "Works for us".


    One of these?

    New Jersey's Forest Fire Service has some incredible machinery, including multiples of this guy.

    They bring us these other trucks within a very resonable time as well.



    http://www.sectionb10.org/b10fire_app.html
    Last edited by MG3610; 03-09-2008 at 08:14 AM.

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    Talking Almost...............

    That's an old JD 350. This is a 450............


    Photo recycled for use elsewhere........
    Last edited by hwoods; 02-18-2009 at 12:42 AM.
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    Harve, although that won't fit in his rig, I can load it onto my 35 ton detachable gooseneck drop deck, fire up my 13 letter $hit spreader corn binder Eagle, and be where he needs me pretty quick.
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    Get some shovels incase you need to make breakfast...


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    Central Jersey?

    Well to me, that sounds like Pine Barrens. Best bet is to stay out of the pines and let NJFFS take care of it. The best tool they use is the drip torch and drive fast down a sand road. lol

    Seriously, they have little use for hand tools down there in those fuels.

    Now, if you are in hardwood forest area, like the hills in Northern Jersey. Then the Council Rake is one of the best tools to get through the duff and vines. For leaf fires, the leafblower is often overlooked. The broom and wire rake are also good for those fuels.

    We don't use Shovels very much and we will use a pulaski every now and then too.

    Bladder bags are great, they don't take up much room on your structural engine and are easy to use.
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    With those fuels, a couple of mcleouds would help out significantly. You can use the tines to rake pretty much anything, grass and leaves included. And the scraping side gives you a good scratch line to hold most ground fire. With the hose again, adding to the 1" and 1 1/2" single jacket compliment will work well. Using anything larger than 1 1/2" is more trouble than it's worth, even as a trunk line, master lead, or whatever you call it. And you now have structure line still in service. Just food for thought, the ICS Type 3 engine classification calls for 1200' of 1 1/2" and 800' of 1" hose. Out here, all of our engines carry that compliment in addition to a full structural compliment.
    Last edited by dbier57; 03-09-2008 at 07:37 PM.
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    Chief,

    Central NJ, as in Trenton Area. Not in the Pinelands, thats about 30 minutes south.

    Speaking of the wildland engine, where can I get the equipment list for an engine that is equipped for structural/wildland. Is it a NIMS thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MG3610 View Post
    Chief,

    Central NJ, as in Trenton Area. Not in the Pinelands, thats about 30 minutes south.

    Speaking of the wildland engine, where can I get the equipment list for an engine that is equipped for structural/wildland. Is it a NIMS thing?
    There is a classification for wildland engines and this document gives you a lot to think about. You'll notice it doesn't specify which handtools, only that you have one per crew person.

    http://www.nwcg.gov/teams/fewt/reports/typ-std.pdf

    Personally, I'm not a big fan of the McCloud. It's a great leaning tool though. Seriously, it takes up a lot of compartment space, is heavy, and the task can be accomplished by the council rake.
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 03-10-2008 at 10:12 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MG3610 View Post
    We also carry 300' of forestry hose in a bag, rolled up, on our structural engine. None of it is connected together. it is 6 rolls, not connected. What is a good way to store this to deploy quickly?
    While some good suggestions have been made thus far, if you REALLY don't have the space to do anything else, depending on the size & shape of the "bag" and how the hose is placed into it . . .

    You could at least roll the hose in a donut roll (start slightly off of the middle & end up with both couplings on the outside when the roll is finished).

    That way you could at least couple them all together for quicker deployment.

    Also if you don't have a dedicated outlet for use with the forestry hose, then keep your atapter(s) in the top of the bag with the hose so you can find them quickly.
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    Would also recommend a good supply of 3/4" synthetic hose as well as some 3/4" low gallonage nozzles (3-10 gpm). Comes in 50ft lengths, doesn't take much space and is very handy. 3/4" hose provides plenty of water for alot of wildland fire and certainly plenty for mop-up. Also consider the combi-tool, also a very handy and universal tool for scratching line, throwing dirt, digging holes, moving rock, pulling roots etc....

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