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  1. #41
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithA8 View Post
    Fyredup:
    As usual you go on and on about points I have already covered with you many times in the past. Like I said if someone is in fact infringing upon another unions job then they are in my opinion scabs too. My comments are not a cop out in my dept. We are very much aware of how our part time job infringes on others jobs. As far as protecting other unions rights - I never said I don't - I just said I can not speak as an expert on the interests of other trades because I am not in that trade.

    I do not belong to a union in my part time job because one does not exist. I sell mortages. There is no "international assosiation of mortgage originators". If there was I would join.

    The fact that you volunteer in a town of 700 people does not make a difference. You still put yourself at risk for being denied presumptive health care and give your city amunition to bargain against your local for your next contract. You talk about hypocrisy - asking for a raise and better benefits when you are willing to do it for nothing next door is hypocrisy!
    There are several members of my career FD that volunteer, including a Deputy Chief.

    Dude are you a politician? What the hell kind of double speak jibberish is this statement by you:

    We are very much aware of how our part time job infringes on others jobs. As far as protecting other unions rights - I never said I don't - I just said I can not speak as an expert on the interests of other trades because I am not in that trade.
    Please, you don't give one thought to those other Union Brothers and Sisters because it doesn't affect firefighter jobs. Just other Union members. So much for Union solidarity...


  2. #42
    Forum Member KeithA8's Avatar
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    Fyredup:
    You are clueless!!!! You should go back to school and relearn english so you can understand simple language. I don't understand what is so confusing for you!
    IAFF member, Love this job! Remember the oath!

  3. #43
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithA8 View Post
    Fyredup:
    You are clueless!!!! You should go back to school and relearn english so you can understand simple language. I don't understand what is so confusing for you!

    Why? Because you think saying you are "AWARE" of how your fellow firefighters working part-time jobs affects other Unions but don't say that you discourage it as harmful to Union Brothers and Sisters? What am I missing?

    Look to me ths issue is CHOICE, plain and simple. You may like to ride snowmobiles at 95 miles an hour across a frozen lake. I won't stop you because it is your choice and it is legal. I and others want to volunteer where we live. Why do you think you should be able to tell those people that they shouldn't do it. Both are assuming the risks of their off duty activities knowing full well the cost if they are injured or killed while doing them.

    That is it to me, plain and simple. Choice.

    Look I don;t want this to turn into a ****ing match. I just want someone to explain to me why some dangerous and potentially deadly activities are okay and being a volunteer firefighter isn't.

  4. #44
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Look I don;t want this to turn into a ****ing match. I just want someone to explain to me why some dangerous and potentially deadly activities are okay and being a volunteer firefighter isn't.
    Brother FyredUp,

    The only explanations I have ever heard that make sense to me, is in a place where this is truly an issue, and we all know where that is. The whole origin of Resolution 43, and all.
    The other deals with the heart and lung/presumptive cancer bill. The local here felt that being a member of another department could cause the member, or the member's family too much of a head ache should the city decide to fight the claim. They felt the only way the city could fight a claim is if the said member were to be a member of another department. Something I can think about, and even accept. If it saves a question on a claim, great. They are there to help us, because we are dues paying members. I don't know why we can still smoke, etc... That doesn't make much sense to me. I would love to see them try and show the lung cancer/heart disease was job related, as opposed to the two packs of smokes per day.
    Of course though, it's only meaningless posturing on my local's part, because we have city residency. Hence, no one really has a need to volunteer in their home community. When the policy was put into place no cried a whole lot, because it only affected a small number of guys.

    I'll say it again, and the same argument will come back at me again. I wish my local and the IAFF would fight against private EMS as ardently as they fight against volunteering. In my opinion there are as many risks for communicable disease performing private EMS, as there is in being a member of a volunteer department.
    My local has a policy, as does the IAFF against volunteering in a fire department. However, my local has no policy in place against working for a non-union private ambulance service, that works in our fire-based EMS. We see it all the time when we call for a transport unit. Here comes the private, with members of another IAFF local staffing it for 9 dollars an hour. Are these guys not taking jobs or over time away from our members?

    My only point in all of this is that we have a lot of house cleaning to do, and we're not always 'uniform' in how we address these issues. If we want to address the no volunteering on a health basis, we need to take a more aggressive posture on the private EMS companies, as well. Hepatitis is as much of a career ender as is a heart attack, or cancer.
    Last edited by jasper45; 04-11-2008 at 01:32 PM.

  5. #45
    Forum Member KeithA8's Avatar
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    fyredup:
    I think you miss understood me or I wrote it wrong when I said we are aware of how our part time jobs infringe on other jobs. My point is we don't do it. We don't take a job that conflicts with a bargaining unit. You need to realize how your choice to volunteer affects not only you but your family, and your local.

    Jasper:
    You make good points!
    IAFF member, Love this job! Remember the oath!

  6. #46
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Jasper,

    We still need to get together and solve all of Milwaukee county's problems.

    I agree with all you said about presumptive health issues. But the point I am trying to make is it should be my choice as to whether I want to push the odds and risk that battle not the Union or the admin telling me what I can do off duty.

    Lung cancer or any other type of cancer has many causes, smoking, chewing tobacco, painting cars, use of solvents, cleaners, glues, mastics, paints, stains, dust from refinishing wood and metal who knows what else. My point? How can we possibly prove that the cancer we have wasn't caused by one of those things from off duty activities? Basically if the city wants to fight your cancer cause they will...

    Moreover I 100% agree with your beef with private ems, especially when guys that do that rip on me for volunteering. My volly FD 100 miles away from where I work is no threat to my Union Brothers and sisters...the numerous private ems agencies are and haven't even tried to hide the fact.

  7. #47
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithA8 View Post
    fyredup:
    I think you miss understood me or I wrote it wrong when I said we are aware of how our part time jobs infringe on other jobs. My point is we don't do it. We don't take a job that conflicts with a bargaining unit. You need to realize how your choice to volunteer affects not only you but your family, and your local.

    Jasper:
    You make good points!
    I see it clearly and it is once again my CHOICE. My family has never said to me you shouldn't volunteer.

  8. #48
    MembersZone Subscriber JaredMTFD's Avatar
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    I reside in the district that I volunteer in. It is 20 miles away from the city where I am a career FF. What I do on my days off, is my business. As long as I show up to work on time, do my job, and do it well, there's nothing anyone can say.

    If I want to skydive, jump of bridges, race cars, put out fires, go to MVA's/EMS calls, or train wild horses....it's MY LIFE and MY BUSINESS and NO-ONE is going to tell me what I can or can't do on my days off.
    When I'm home off the clock, I do what I want. If I choose to volunteer and serve the community that I live in, then I will.

    When it's time to be at work, I'm there, and do my job well. When I leave at 7AM to go home, I do what I want. I may catch run at 7:25 as I'm coming back into town. I'm off the clock; I'll do what I want.

    I really have no idea what the local IAFF thinks about it, and personally I don't care. They can encourage it, or be ****ed, it matters not to me.

  9. #49
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I see it clearly and it is once again my CHOICE. My family has never said to me you shouldn't volunteer.
    Then you're family is betting that you never get permanently injured as a volunteer. I don't live in an area where volunteering is available. But if I did I wouldn't do it for a couple of reasons. The potential for injury being the most significant. In CA, disability is based upon the wage of the occupation you were working at the time. Pretty hard to make the house payments when you're being paid nothing or next to nothing.

    But don't let anyone stop you. By all means continue.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  10. #50
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Then you're family is betting that you never get permanently injured as a volunteer. I don't live in an area where volunteering is available. But if I did I wouldn't do it for a couple of reasons. The potential for injury being the most significant. In CA, disability is based upon the wage of the occupation you were working at the time. Pretty hard to make the house payments when you're being paid nothing or next to nothing.

    But don't let anyone stop you. By all means continue.

    In Wisconsin volunteer firefighter workers compensation is paid at the rate of the closest full time fire department firefighter pay. For me that would be the City of Madison and would be a pretty decent wage.

    My guess is you need to research that in California and be sure of your facts before you declare workers comp at nothing for volunteer firefighters.

  11. #51
    MembersZone Subscriber JaredMTFD's Avatar
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    Oh..and in addition to my post above...

    I also volunteer as a reserve deputy sheriff in my county. I am a sworn law enforcement officer and I can get suited up and go out and serve as a police officer any time I wish. Chances are much more likely for me to be shot or injured as a police officer, these days. No-one on my crew pokes fun at me or complains about that.

    So, it's not all about the risk of being injured, at least not here. The main problem is here the career FF's here have no use, or understanding of volunteers. Even though some of them used to do it...they act like they are better than them/us.

    I just show up, do my job, and I don't talk about what I do on my days off.

  12. #52
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaredMTFD View Post
    blah blah blah
    Who are you again? ....

  13. #53
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Did we kill another horse just to beat it, or did the dead one get reanimated in some kind of Frankensteinish experiment:
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  14. #54
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    Thumbs up

    Everyone just do what the hell you want! If it won't get you in trouble, then have at it.

    If you're in NH do things however your local culture does them, same thing for those of you in WI, CA, and TX. Why waste time fighting about it on here?

  15. #55
    MembersZone Subscriber JaredMTFD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45 View Post
    Who are you again? ....

    What's it to you?

  16. #56
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaredMTFD View Post
    I reside in the district that I volunteer in. It is 20 miles away from the city where I am a career FF. What I do on my days off, is my business. As long as I show up to work on time, do my job, and do it well, there's nothing anyone can say.

    If I want to skydive, jump of bridges, race cars, put out fires, go to MVA's/EMS calls, or train wild horses....it's MY LIFE and MY BUSINESS and NO-ONE is going to tell me what I can or can't do on my days off.
    When I'm home off the clock, I do what I want. If I choose to volunteer and serve the community that I live in, then I will.

    When it's time to be at work, I'm there, and do my job well. When I leave at 7AM to go home, I do what I want. I may catch run at 7:25 as I'm coming back into town. I'm off the clock; I'll do what I want.

    I really have no idea what the local IAFF thinks about it, and personally I don't care. They can encourage it, or be ****ed, it matters not to me.
    Well, if you are an IAFF member... don't expect the brothers of your local to bend over backwards should you get hurt doing your volunteer gig or playing Deputy Dawg... If you don't care, then why should they?

    If you are not an IAFF member. then what the IAFF position is doesn't concern you anyways...

    PS: it's not only the IAFF's position. There are communities looking to protect their investments in their firefighters and have the non volunteer firefighting clause written into their contract agreements. If you choose to ignore that, and you do get hurt.. how will you explain it to the Brass?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  17. #57
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    My guess is you need to research that in California and be sure of your facts before you declare workers comp at nothing for volunteer firefighters.
    Already done.

    I stand by my original statement.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  18. #58
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    Your local and international fight for you benifits, pay, safety and job security. Why would you jepardize that to hang around the fire house? Spend time with your family on your days off.

  19. #59
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    I'm the Assistant Chief of my 15 member volunteer fire department that I helped form 12 years ago. The nearest paid department (no local) is a combo department 15 miles away that staffs one paid man 24 hours a day. The nearest IAFF Local is in a department in the next county, about 25 miles away.

    I work as a union firefighter 40 miles from my home. The city and local have no policy against being a volunteer firefighter, as far as I know.

    A few of my co-workers volunteer as well. We don't talk about, make a big deal out of it, or say, "Well at the VFD we do it this way..."

    I didn't decide to be a career firefighter for the benefits (but I like 'em). I decided to be a career firefighter because I love it.

    I didn't decide to help form a VFD because I wanted to be a firefighter (I caught that bug later. I decided to form a VFD because I wanted someone to be able to respond to my home if it caught fire.

    There are days (and today is one of them) that I would like to walk away from the VFD because it's a royal pain in th a**.

    However, I have a lot invested personally in the department, and feel obilgated to help make it as good as it can be.

    Could I get hurt volunteering? Yup. Could I get hurt driving to the grocery store? Yup. I don't come home from work, lock myself in a bomb shelter and hold a blanket over my head so I don't risk losing my benefits from my paid job.
    Bryan Beall
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Well, if you are an IAFF member... don't expect the brothers of your local to bend over backwards should you get hurt doing your volunteer gig or playing Deputy Dawg... If you don't care, then why should they?
    i'm not trying to stoke the fire even more but it sounds like his local brothers are supporting him.

    just a side bar. if you were a volunteer would you like to learn from a person and work side by side with a person who has more experience because they are paid to do the same thing else where? That was not meant to be rude, just some food for thought and maybe get some other opinions waying in. it's always productive to hear other sides of the story.

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