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  1. #1

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    Default VES question for truck newcomer

    Hey all,

    Had a question about VES. I was wondering what advice would you all suggest if you have to VES for a possible victim and you roll up with a light/less experienced crew. How do you suggest positioning the ladder? I know the book says that to vent a window you want the ladder to the windward side with the tip even with top of window- but then you would have to reposition it for rescue. Some guys have told me they just position the window at the sill turn their head and jab at the window with pike pole. And some have said that they crash the ladder through the window then extend it to the sill (related question would this work with the thick glass we are seeing more and more). Any thoughts.

    Thanks


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber jfTL41's Avatar
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    I have found that the easiest way to do what you are describing is to drop the ladder thru the glass put the butt of the ladder where you need it and use a halligan to clear the window and get in. Remember the point of this is to get in fast and search living areas, hanging out on the tip of the ladder doesn't count as doing your job.
    The method described, ladder to top and side of window, climb (with someone butting the ladder of course!) perform a leg lock, reach off the ladder with a hook and break the glass, then, go back down, move the ladder, climb up and in, seems like alot of wasted time. Probably developed by some armchair firefighter who doesn't really WANT to go in that room anyway...

  3. #3
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    You need to clear that window out entirely. Sash and all.

    You may be exiting that window in a much bigger hurry than when you entered it and you want that opening to be as large as possible.

    That said...you don't want to take alot of time to clear it. But you definitely want it cleared.

    And be careful when breaking the glass that you don't simply shatter the window. This can cause LARGE sections of the glass to slide down the tool you are holding and drop directly onto your wrist/hand. Use strong blows so when the glass does break, it REALLY breaks.

    By climbing to the TOP of the ladder and almost lining yourself up so that the window is almost at your side will make it easier to remove the glass and the sash and will prevent you from breaking the glass over your head. This way when the glass breaks it will fall past you...not ON you. Once the window is cleared, climb down a rung or two and you will be able to enter the window.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfTL41 View Post
    I have found that the easiest way to do what you are describing is to drop the ladder thru the glass put the butt of the ladder where you need it and use a halligan to clear the window and get in. Remember the point of this is to get in fast and search living areas, hanging out on the tip of the ladder doesn't count as doing your job.
    The method described, ladder to top and side of window, climb (with someone butting the ladder of course!) perform a leg lock, reach off the ladder with a hook and break the glass, then, go back down, move the ladder, climb up and in, seems like alot of wasted time. Probably developed by some armchair firefighter who doesn't really WANT to go in that room anyway...
    What he said.

    FTM-PTB

  5. #5
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    What he said.
    Ditto.


    In FF1 school, we are forced to teach the side of window, leg log, reposition method.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Ditto.


    In FF1 school, we are forced to teach the side of window, leg log, reposition method.
    Double ditto. We now teach the ladder into the top sash to FF1 candidates, but we're in the minority in our area. It's amazing that some people are so resistant to change even when it makes so much sense.

  7. #7
    Forum Member NDeMarse's Avatar
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    Lots of info from this thread that was active a few years ago.

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=71444

    It may be a little more than what you wanted, but everything is there.

    Nate
    Good Luck, Stay Low & Stay Safe

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  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    In FF1 school, we are forced to teach the side of window, leg log, reposition method.

    And I guess in it's defence, if you are just venting and don't plan to enter that's probably fine. It is a useful technique for other jobs that must be performed off a ladder as well.

    But I too agree that using the ladder to breach and placing it once is the better solution for this particular VES scenario.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

    IACOJ

  9. #9
    Forum Member DonSmithnotTMD's Avatar
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    Does it matter where you hit an SFD window?
    I am a highly trained professional and can find my :: expletive deleted:: with either hand in various light conditions.

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber dadman's Avatar
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    Busting windows with a ladder. Sort of.

    Dual Pane Vinyl Windows
    Video and comments.
    http://www.vententersearch.com/?p=211

  11. #11
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    wait until you try it on a Hurricane style window....
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  12. #12
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    Great video, we have run into this situation a few times.
    I like the ladder to break the window because it lets the room burp prior to being infront of it.
    Back to the original topic, I would have your most experienced members preform VES. it is a dangerous position and it should have an experienced crew doing it.

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