Draeger SCBA's

[firegod101]

Can anyone tell me if Draeger SCBA's meet the new NFPA standards?
Thanks

[jbrescue]

According to their website they are.

[kd7fds]

As of yesterday, when we talked to our local sales rep, they have not passed the 2007 compliance testing (they failed in feb) but expect to pass in April when they are scheduled for retesting.

Our rep told us that they have a plan to fulfill all current orders by the end of June, if they pass the April tests.

We are a Draegar department that really wants Draegar packs, but Scott is making a heck of a pitch to us, and we are listening closely.

[firegod101]

Thanks for the response. So they plan on passing in April.....
Well that kind of puts a wrench in the 2008 AFG. Guess Scott is our choice. Priced better anyhow

[kd7fds]

We got identical quotes from MSA, Draegar and Scott, $5000 per pack including extra bottle. Imagine that.

We got Draegar to agree to include their quick change bottle system at that price since Scott did as well. With Draegar though, we have to buy adaptors for our compressors and cascade systems to fill the bottles.

[neiowa]

We got identical quotes from MSA, Draegar and Scott, $5000 per pack including extra bottle. Imagine that.

We got Draegar to agree to include their quick change bottle system at that price since Scott did as well. With Draegar though, we have to buy adaptors for our compressors and cascade systems to fill the bottles.

Scott will now make the NxG with the EzFlo regulator for same price as the AP75 pack with EzFlo (former had to buy the EzFlo II with NxG). Talk to your Scott rep. You now want the NxG with EzFlo and you want him to provide Voice Amps w/brackets. He can do it for $5k per. Scott regional rep does not want you to go to Draeger.

[kd7fds]

The Scott Regional rep doesn't want us to stay with Draeger. The Draeger regional rep doesn't want us to switch to Scott.

We are definately seeing a lot of competition between these two. Each one keeps trying to sweeten the deal. We are only pricing the NxG's with quick connect. Their latest offer is to toss in enough 2nd stage regulators so that each fire fighter has their own regulator to go with their mask.

The Scott Rep has an advantage that the Draeger rep doesn't have. They have a technician in the area a couple times a month. They can come right to the station and flow test the packs every year. We have to send our Draeger packs out for flow testing. Of the four brands of packs we evaluated, Scott was the only one who could demonstrate that level of service.

That is kind of a big deal.

We really liked the new Draeger pack though. The mask has a much improved field of vision, accessories like voice amps are more streamlined, don't get caught on stuff. The pack is very comfortable to wear and is very adjustable to different firefighters. The straps are a new material that is supposed to be easily deconned.

The engineer in me likes the design of the Draeger quick connect better than the Scott one. Both are easy to use, but I just like the Draeger one better.

But we have to buy adapters for the Draeger for compressors and cascade systems. Advantage there is then we can quick connect compressors and cascade systems too. Disadvantage, price ($400 per adapter) and in mutual aid situations we have to take an adapter with us. It is possible to unthread the quick connect adapter from the bottle and use a standard DIN connector fill the bottle, then put the quick connect adapter back on.

Choices Choices Choices

[medic190]

"The mask has a much improved field of vision, accessories like voice amps are more streamlined, don't get caught on stuff. The pack is very comfortable to wear and is very adjustable to different firefighters."

The AV3000 mask from Scott has a great field of vision. The new EPIC voice amp is very streamlined (and it turns itself off, saving batteries... smarter than a lot of my firefighters!!) I find the AP 50 / 75 very comfortable (personally, better than Drager, but this a personal choice...)

[mikey51]

For inquiring minds,

What is the difference between the 2007, 2002, 1997, and any older standards for SCBA's. That is a question on the grant. I would like to thing everyone gets there stats right.

[steelman]

Go with SCOTT.............No to Draeger.......18 yrs experience with Scott speaking, a local industry has Draeger, Scott is heads and shoulders the better pack....

[neiowa]

I'm and engineer also and can readily appreciate the variances in designs. But also have to recognize that there are two dominant brands of SCBA in the US. For a reason. I certainly can't think of anything a Scott does or fails to do that is important to a FF. Pack is affordable. Parts are readily available and in vast majority of the US has a competent distributorship that has POSTSALE service. As you pointed out you have NO service after the sale. You might as well be buying mailorder from Europe. You don't even have a price advantage with brand x.

Think there is ANY SCBA dealer in the US would give up, in an instant, their current SCBA franchise if they could sign up for the the Scott (or MSA) line. Why is that.

Owning a Citroën, or other euro crackerbox, might also have some novelty value, some have unique design or performance/kg capability, etc. But other than forcing her to sit really close to you what unique value for the $ does it bring to the table?

Sometimes the market leaders are out in front for a reason. And everything else are just the wannabees/also rans. At one time a MIS type could never go wrong buying Big Blue. Today same in SCBA brand(s).

[the24fireman]

Go with SCOTT.............No to Draeger.......18 yrs experience with Scott speaking, a local industry has Draeger, Scott is heads and shoulders the better pack....

I agree with you that scott is the better pack. I have used both and always preferred scott. But you should never tip your hand when dealing with the rep. You need to get prices from everyone you can, even if you know that you will go with a certain company from the get go. Bounce them off each other so the company you are going to go to with has to bring their price down for you. Its not sneaky or underhanded its just the way to keep these companies fair.

[islandfire03]

should have bought a pierce! Oh wait wrong thread same yellow kool aid.
:-]

[JD1234]

I am going to respectfully disagree with you. We are presently a SCOTT department surrounded in the shadows of NYC by SCOTT departments. When we did our evaluations of four major brands, from a firefighters standpoint the NEW Draeger in our opinion was head and shoulders above everyone else's we evaluated. The evaluations were done by firefighters. I am an engineer as well, and I thought that from a technical and a firefighter standpoint, the Draeger pack had a superior design.

On service, perhaps this is a problem West of the mississippi in states like Iowa. Draeger has a major organization in Pittsburgh, and there are dealers within close distance on the East Coast--no further than SCOTT dealers.

On cost, in NJ SCOTT has, at least in the past, had a pricing issue. Their packs were 10-15% above $5000.00, and last fall, none of vendors were willing to budge or throw in extras. Around NJ, I think SCOTT realizes it has a near monopoly, and they exhibit a take it or leave it attitude. We tried to go outside NJ to vendors and PA, and if I recall correctly, we were told by SCOTT that we could not do this. Only in NJ. Perhaps it has something to do with our not so clean government--just look at our former Governor.


I think that if Draeger can get its act together in other parts of the country with sales, service and support, they will be a formidable competitor and probably become #2 in the next few years. If you have not seen the new Drager 2007 Compliant SCBA you may conclude after seeing it that all of the others will be wannabes.

I'm and engineer also and can readily appreciate the variances in designs. But also have to recognize that there are two dominant brands of SCBA in the US. For a reason. I certainly can't think of anything a Scott does or fails to do that is important to a FF. Pack is affordable. Parts are readily available and in vast majority of the US has a competent distributorship that has POSTSALE service. As you pointed out you have NO service after the sale. You might as well be buying mailorder from Europe. You don't even have a price advantage with brand x.

Think there is ANY SCBA dealer in the US would give up, in an instant, their current SCBA franchise if they could sign up for the the Scott (or MSA) line. Why is that.

Owning a Citroën, or other euro crackerbox, might also have some novelty value, some have unique design or performance/kg capability, etc. But other than forcing her to sit really close to you what unique value for the $ does it bring to the table?

Sometimes the market leaders are out in front for a reason. And everything else are just the wannabees/also rans. At one time a MIS type could never go wrong buying Big Blue. Today same in SCBA brand(s).

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Kinda hard to see what doesn't exist since they haven't passed yet, already redesigned some parts a couple of times. Had one person I wrote for that wanted the Big D from the start but every time the demo came around it was a different pack. Got tired of stories, bought elsewhere. Personally I haven't had an issue with any pack I've used, and truth be told I liked the 92 version ISIs. Nice small regulator. Worn Scott, MSA, Draeger, haven't really cared one way or the other. When the red stuff is going never really paid much attention.

Although I will pitch service though, if you have to spend $$ on FedEx to get your packs fixed versus someone that comes out and does it there I think that's an easy decision. Service is the difference anymore with all products. That's why Big Blue went down so fast, expensive and no customer service to speak of.

[BLSboy]

I use Draeger now, and have used ISI, MSA, and Scott. I would take a Scott pack ANY day of the week, twice on Sundays. I feel so much more comfortable in a Scott pack, it is more comfortable, there is no rubber on the handwheel to get messed up when you attach the cylander to the pack.

Down with Draeger!

[JD1234]

We informed today that all NIOSH, all CBRN and all NFPA testing of the new Draeger PSS7000 SCBA have been successfully completed. Official word to come when paperwork is in hand. Delivery is on schedule for us.

[kd7fds]

I use Draeger now, and have used ISI, MSA, and Scott. I would take a Scott pack ANY day of the week, twice on Sundays. I feel so much more comfortable in a Scott pack, it is more comfortable, there is no rubber on the handwheel to get messed up when you attach the cylander to the pack.

Down with Draeger!

BTW, I checked with my Chief, that rubber on the handwheel you hate so much, yeah, that's an OPTION that the fire department pays $$ to have added.

Our Draeger packs never had it.

That is good news about Draeger passing the tests finally. We are sending out our bid specs today.

Feeling around the department is that Scott is going to win. 6 months ago, I would never have thought it would happen here. Like some of you pointed out, local service, superior customer service by the local dealer, aggressive pricing are all part of the reasons.

I still really liked the new Draeger pack though. Especially the new quick disconnect. I thought it was a very well engineered design.

[neiowa]

..

Feeling around the department is that Scott is going to win. 6 months ago, I would never have thought it would happen here. Like some of you pointed out, local service, superior customer service by the local dealer, aggressive pricing are all part of the reasons.

I still really liked the new Draeger pack though. Especially the new quick disconnect. I thought it was a very well engineered design.

What more do you want? Free car washes and pizza?

[kd7fds]

Free car washes and pizza's would be nice,

but we will be sad to see our Draeger packs go. We liked how they fit. We liked the masks. We even liked the blue bottles. Made us stand out in mutual aid situations.

We liked everything about the new Draeger pack. It was everything we liked about the old one, just a little better.

We liked the Scott pack, its okay, and we will be happy to have them. It was all the intangibles that I mentioned that are causing the switch, not because we think the pack is better. .