1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    7

    Default lights on POV's?

    I'm with a rural all volunteer department and I respond out of an outstation where there are five on the roster each travelling from 1-4 miles to the station. Our SOG's allow for red and white flashing lights on our POVs during emergency response within district. These lights allow us to travel up to ten MPH over the posted speed limits and requests other road users to yield us the right of way.The roads we travel enroute to station have light traffic and are posted at 55 MPH with little to no shoulders and not many good safe passing zones. We have a young FF that has been on just one year that consistantly runs at excessive speeds with lights flashing. I'm concerned that he's going to either run himself or someone else off the road and I'm very close to asking our Chief to take away the flashing lights priviledge, not just for him, but for our entire department. The way I see it, responding to the station is the most dangerous thing we do because not only do we tend to push the limits but there's nobody looking over our shoulder holding us responsible for our actions. In a 55 MPH zone most vehicles other than farm equipt. will be running from 50-60 mph and so even to sit behind them for the entire distance of the response would only delay a responder a maximum of thirty seconds. If we can already run 5 mph over the posted speed limit without worries of law enforcement pulling us over the extra 5 mph given to us through the use of the lights doesn't seem like much of a benefit, instead, I think it tends to add to the adrenoline raising the speeds which increases stopping distances dramatically and causes other drivers to exhibit bizarre behaviour when attempting to yield to our lights. Have any of your departments recently revised SOG's pertaining to lights on POV's? What are some arguments pro or con that I'm not considering here?

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    7

    Default

    oops, I'm just new to this forum and didn't understand the 'search topics' function yet. I can see that people are sick and tired of talking about this so I'll just say I'm sorry if for some reason you felt compelled to open up a topic that you don't want to read. Still in the learning curve.

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    We have a young FF that has been on just one year that consistantly runs at excessive speeds with lights flashing. I'm concerned that he's going to either run himself or someone else off the road and I'm very close to asking our Chief to take away the flashing lights priviledge, not just for him, but for our entire department.
    Out of all the "lights on POVs" threads here, this is the most rational statement I have ever seen posted on the forum!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  4. #4
    55 Years & Still Rolling
    hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Thumbs up Yep.............

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Out of all the "lights on POVs" threads here, this is the most rational statement I have ever seen posted on the forum!
    Agreed! Chad, you need to get with your Chief and rein in this Cowboy before someone gets hurt. Your reaction to this problem speaks VERY well for you, and most likely more of your department. Please keep us posted. Thanks, Stay safe out there.

    If I may ask, what State are you in?
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    ndvfdff33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Winterpeg Manitoba
    Posts
    2,461

    Default

    I agree with Gonz.

    I don't feel there is any need to have lights in a POV unless of course your in a fairly built up town with a fair bit of traffic or stop lights. But in those cases it should be tightly monitored so that you don't have the people like the young lad you describe. Where I am from there is no lights, unless your a Chief or Deputy and there is never an issue with people arriving to the hall in a fairly quick and safe time.


    BTW, your light thread is not the typical light thread that drives people insane. Yours is a concern,not somebody asking what type of light they should get next or that sort of crap. Definitely nothing to be sorry about.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

  6. #6
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    65

    Default

    I am a volunteer and in my department we are not allowed to have any sort of lights or sirens on our POV's. Our department does not even allow responding to the scene in POV. In order to respond you have to first go the station and get on a rig. It works fine for us and we have no problems with it.

  7. #7
    makes good girls go bad
    BLSboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    On the beach, Fla/OCNJ
    Posts
    2,859

    Default

    If there is a problem with one person, revoke that persons use of them. Like anything else in the fire service, lights in POVs are a TOOL. The person using them shouldn't be one too!
    I scan my pages. Elevator rescue? Activated Fire Alarm for the 5th time this month? Activated pull station at the local restraunt, with calls to 911 to confirm it was a prank?
    I go normal traffic, no lights, no speeding.
    Smoke in a structure, calls reporting a fire, an AFA in a commercial structure, I use my lights, and go no faster then 10 mph over the speed limit. I have actually been passed by civilians while "responding" to the station.
    My 1st priority is MY safety. If I make 2nd due apparatus, or have to take the Utility, so be it. Its just not worth the risk.

    And besides, I will NEVER get hired if I have an accident thats my fault, so theres some extra incentive!
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
    Member, IACOJ.
    FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    7

    Default

    hwoods asked me what state I'm in and the answer to that Q would be Oregon. Someone else stated that their department doesn't allow POV response other than just to the station and our depatment is the same yet there are times with this rule as with most rules that sometimes there are execptions and so I'm currently working on understanding all the issues surrounding POV's so we can properly re-write our SOG. At the moment, our spoken (not written) policy is that POV arrival at the scene is allowable when the scene is in the direct route to the station and the FF arriving by POV is merely attempting a sizeup for getting better info to incoming units or to call for additional resources. POVs in general tend to block access for other incoming units that will be arriving carrying proper rescue equiptment and proper staffing numbers. Sometimes a hero will be the one who stops bloodloss or pulls someone from a burning vehicle but for the most part I don't want to operate with any heros as I see a hero as someone who acts on their own and freelancing is more often a problem than a soloution. I've had a very hard time driving past a scene en-route to the station before, but all the gear I need for a proper response is there just another couple miles down the road and I'll be most effective properly supported. I've even got woken up by my pager with a call for a wildfire at my own address. I certainly wanted to go drive the quarter mile of property line that leads away from the station just to know what was going on but my training and good sense made me respond to the station first and then investigate when I had the resources to do something about it.
    I had a teacher once say that it's vitaly important to understand the reasons behind all rules so that we can know, when necessary, how to break them properly. I try to keep that in mind anytime I'm the person making or enforcing a rule. Something else about rules are that they are only good IF people can follow them.

  9. #9
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Eastern Ct.
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Regardless of your SPO's, state law has the higher authority. No state law would allow use of lights in any vechicle without "due regard" for others on the road. Use of a light is priviledge and if used without "due regard" should be pulled. We recently changed our SOP to restrict personal lights until after a member has a state certification. If you dont get trained, we can not use you so no need to rush to the station.

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    volfirie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    558

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chadbutler View Post
    I had a teacher once say that it's vitaly important to understand the reasons behind all rules so that we can know, when necessary, how to break them properly.
    I like that one! By the way, don't think of speaking to the Chief, do it.

    PS. No lights/sirens allowed on personal vehicles here.
    "Professional" means your attitude to the job...

    Nullus Anxietas ..... (T Pratchett)

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Southern Indiana
    Posts
    497

    Default

    First, I agree lights etc are a privledge and should only be used when actually needed. I actually don't own a blue light and really haven't needed one.

    Our area, all volunteer with the station in the middle, has half or so of our members on one side, half on the other. From that, for each call, half of the members are closer to scene than the station. Our SOG's reflect this distribution so its common for responders to go direct more often. To support this, we issue gear to FF to carry (bunker gear, pagers, radios and tec kits for EMT's/First responders). Sometimes, intial resposders are well equipped for initial intervention prior to our trucks rolling from the station. (its easy to be quick if its only a few blocks)

    Do we need lights - well no. They are a tool and sometimes a very useful tool. Its just a tool that has to be used responsibly. For me though, I don't need that tool now. Perhaps if I become an EMT etc, but not now.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    22

    Default

    On our department only officers are allowed to have lights and sirens and can respond directly to the scene. All other FFs must respond to the stations. We are also expected to follow the posted speed limit while doing so.

  13. #13
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1

    Default opinion

    Not to offend anyone, as a young firefighter myself I know what it feels like. To rush out that door and get to the firehouse. It is plainly a rush. Granted speeding and driving recklessly to get to the firehouse is irresponsible. But eliminate everyones ability to use a blue light. Punish all for the lack of respo0nsibility of a few. Makes no sense.

  14. #14
    makes good girls go bad
    BLSboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    On the beach, Fla/OCNJ
    Posts
    2,859

    Default

    Once you can control that adrenaline rush, then you may have a blinky. I was once like you. Then I realized, getting there late, or sitting in the bay, sipping a soda, waiting for them to return, is a LOT better then being extricated, having your name dragged in the mud over internet forums, having your dept dragged through the mud, the possible legal ramifications, the loosing of light privedges for all, and actually doing harm to another, when we are sworn to protect.
    Slow down. Listen to your call. AFA at the usual place? Go with the flow of traffic, no lights, no worries. Who cares if you are first there, or jotting down names on the call sheet? Arrive alive.
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
    Member, IACOJ.
    FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    44

    Default

    what is this rookie in such a hurry for? is anyone with less that 1 year in a department that important to have to travel that fast and reckless to get to a scene? Im thinking he must have a current cpr card!

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    VinnieB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    On the couch in my skivvies
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    My thoughts on PoV lights has always been the same....

    Blue Light and Fire call......Equals and erection that pins down the accelerator. I see no need for lights on a PoV and they should be banned entirely. IMO.
    IACOJ Member

  17. #17
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    465

    Default

    I have lights on my POV....headlights, turn signals, brake lights, backup lights.

    I agree that in MOST situations having lights on your POV makes no difference. We are required to respond out of our station, and we are lucky that most of our members live within town limits, so time really isn't a factor.

    Now of course there are other departments with different circumstances where an argument could be made for light use. But as an overall topic I prefer to not have them.

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    KEEPBACK200FEET's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    East Carolina University
    Posts
    1,176

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BLSboy View Post
    Once you can control that adrenaline rush, then you may have a blinky. I was once like you. Then I realized, getting there late, or sitting in the bay, sipping a soda, waiting for them to return, is a LOT better then being extricated, having your name dragged in the mud over internet forums, having your dept dragged through the mud, the possible legal ramifications, the loosing of light privedges for all, and actually doing harm to another, when we are sworn to protect.
    Slow down. Listen to your call. AFA at the usual place? Go with the flow of traffic, no lights, no worries. Who cares if you are first there, or jotting down names on the call sheet? Arrive alive.
    I agree wholeheartedly.
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi View Post
    Go put your pussy 2 1/2" lines away kiddies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer343

    By the way KEEPBACK200FEET, you're so dramatic!

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1

    Default

    I am a volunteer firefighter and in this county we have paid and volunteers. The volunteers are allowed to respond to calls in their personal vehicles and we have no lights/seirens and are expected to follow the speed limit/traffic laws. I know how you addrenaline can get the best of you on the way to a fire but you have to have a little more self control than to let yourself do something like that all of the time. It sounds like to me he isnt ready for that kind of responsibility. I am only 18 and I have cought myself speeding 15mph over the speed limit once or twice before but as soon as I noticed that i was speeding I immedately slowed down to just above the speed limit. Having lights/seirens on a POV makes people feel like they have more control and that they can do as they please and they need to know that that is not the case. Something needs to be done.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Amber lights and POV's?
    By XRaysJL in forum Probie House: The Place for Newbies
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 02-19-2008, 11:25 AM
  2. emerg. lights and/or sirens on POV's
    By fireslayer75 in forum Emergency Vehicle Operations
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 04-11-2006, 04:06 AM
  3. Lights On Pov's????
    By firefighter7160 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-30-2005, 10:09 AM
  4. Lights on POV's
    By central51 in forum Volunteer Forum
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 11-15-2004, 10:06 AM
  5. Lights on POV's; how far is too far?
    By FireWood1 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 87
    Last Post: 12-09-2002, 09:54 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register