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    Default G5A Presentation Helmets

    Ive seen a lot of guys wearing the cairns G5A Presentation Helmets because the same it is almost the same as a 5A, what does everyone thing about this, have you seen this?
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    A member of my last department had one. Very similar to my N5A, but without the inner shell. He had no problems wearing it, but it wasn't ready to try it in a fire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rawbff15 View Post
    Ive seen a lot of guys wearing the cairns G5A Presentation Helmets because the same it is almost the same as a 5A, what does everyone thing about this, have you seen this?
    The G5A should only be used as a presentation/parade helmet. It does not meet even osha it is strictly a gift helmet i would believe that if anyone were to get hurt wearing a presentation helmet OSHA would come down on that department like a ton of bricks. Spend the money and buy a real 5A I know they are heavier but you'll want that protection when you need it. and I am sure your department will find away to pass on both the fines and any criminal acusations on to a member of the department. its not safe dont do it

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    Although I am not necessarily condoning it, I am sure it is plenty safe. Just because it isn't OSHA or NFPA tested doesn't mean that it won't take a lick better than your noggin.

    Its kinda like mandating the use of a helmet at the top of a 100' aerial, its not really going to matter.
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    Here we go, the NFPA police will come and arrest you. You better not. One of the good things here in MA is that the fire service in Massachusetts is not mandated by OSHA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MassFireGuy View Post
    Here we go, the NFPA police will come and arrest you. You better not. One of the good things here in MA is that the fire service in Massachusetts is not mandated by OSHA.
    NIOSH rules carry the same weight and penalties..and they can write up violations in Massachusetts...
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    NFPA or any other initials aside, I would think real hard about protecting my noggin with anything that had "presentational" in its product name.

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    Better not take this discussion to any Boston fire house. Half the guys there wear them. Its going to be my next lid!

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    Quote Originally Posted by WebFire View Post
    NFPA or any other initials aside, I would think real hard about protecting my noggin with anything that had "presentational" in its product name.
    Never mind NHPA, OSHA, NIOSH, or any other "alphabet agency": Ask your spouse, child, parent or any other loved one who cares about your well being what their feelings are on you relying on a helmet intended for display purposes in protecting your grape on the fireground...wanna guess what MY wife would say?

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    Half of the guys in Boston and 99.99% of the San Francisco Fire Dept. wear a pre-impact Cairns 5A New Yorker. Some of the helmets in San Francisco are from before the 60's, and have to be retro fitted with four suspension straps and the clips for a chin strap. While protecting your noggin is a key thing on the fire ground, is the object falling from five stories up NOT going to break your neck when it hits your NFPA wiz-bang helmet? I hardly think so. If my helmet has more impact protection than my body, thats weight I don't need to carry around and a null point. And for the Knight, it's NFPA, not NHPA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyirons2 View Post
    Better not take this discussion to any Boston fire house. Half the guys there wear them. Its going to be my next lid!
    That's interesting. I didn't realize people were wearing these for duty. Is it primarily the reduction in weight that makes them desirable? I didn't look at pricing. Perhaps that is part of it too.

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    Listen, if you are going to get hit in the head that hard or going to take a fall from that high it is not going to matter what the hell is on your head. It's not like a 5A or a G5A offers no protection. Many of many of many firefighters used that helmet for their career and they made it out just fine. I am sure more than a couple of them took lickings on their noggins. Lets make sure our underwear and socks are NFPA complaint too while we are at it. How about we all take off our Bourkes? Just my opinion, we all got 'em.

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    The G5A is basically a remake of the old 5A New Yorkers. The newer of the old 5As had a chin strap and ear flaps. These are the two items that the G5A does not have (standard). A lot of guys will take a G5A and add a newer head liner with ear flaps and a chin strap(both items are available through many fire equipment distributers).

    I wear a 70's 5A that I put a new liner in because the old one was worn and the paint was chipped.....and I had to repaint it to the color we wear at my dept. The helmet was in very good to near new shape. I have had no problems and it is holding up very well.

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    It's not a pricing issue, although a new G5A is a little less than an N5A. It's a little thing called tradition, which is the whole reason to wear a leather in the first place. I know in San Francisco some guys wear their dad's 5A leather that was worn a career before. The only real issue is the cotter pins that secure the shields on the older 5A's. It is good to put a backing on them so if and when you do get a little knock on the dome, you don't cut your forehead wide open.
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    I for certain want one! I have 4 old n5a's but nothing is like a G5A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbier57 View Post
    Half of the guys in Boston and 99.99% of the San Francisco Fire Dept. wear a pre-impact Cairns 5A New Yorker. Some of the helmets in San Francisco are from before the 60's, and have to be retro fitted with four suspension straps and the clips for a chin strap. While protecting your noggin is a key thing on the fire ground, is the object falling from five stories up NOT going to break your neck when it hits your NFPA wiz-bang helmet? I hardly think so. If my helmet has more impact protection than my body, thats weight I don't need to carry around and a null point. And for the Knight, it's NFPA, not NHPA.
    Oops, meant NFPA but apparently fat-fingered the keys. Thanks for pointing out my error. And I understand what you're saying, but what do you think would happen if God forbid something happened to someone wearing a G5A and the jackals from the insurance company whose job is to look for technicalities to deny claims found that little declaration that the G5A is for "presentation only"? It wouldn't matter to you because you would be dead..but is it fair to do to your loved ones who are left behind when your benefits are denied because you were willfully wearing unrated gear? And i might be overcautious, but is it really worth taking a chance on unwittingly screwing over your own survivors?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KnightnPBIArmor View Post
    is it really worth taking a chance on unwittingly screwing over your own survivors?
    That's why I wear my annoying traffic vest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KnightnPBIArmor View Post
    what do you think would happen if God forbid something happened to someone wearing a G5A and the jackals from the insurance company whose job is to look for technicalities to deny claims found that little declaration that the G5A is for "presentation only"? It wouldn't matter to you because you would be dead..but is it fair to do to your loved ones who are left behind when your benefits are denied because you were willfully wearing unrated gear? And i might be overcautious, but is it really worth taking a chance on unwittingly screwing over your own survivors?
    I hear ya bro, I just don't like a panel of lawyers telling me the best way to fight fire. This is one of the many issues that gets me fired up and wanting to rip the fire service out of the hands of those who stole it. I guess I'm saying MY personal choice is to wear the BEST gear for the job, consistent with what I feel are the greatest safety risks posed to me, and what gear best protects me from said risks. As of right now, if my girlfriend doesn't get my benefits because I was killed doing something stupid and was wearing an illegal helmet while doing it, that's a risk I'm willing to take. This might change when and IF I ever grow up, or might be magnified the day I get to work for the SFFD. And don't get anyone from SF, the East Bay and the rest of NorCal started on having to wear turnout pants instead of their wools and Pro Warringtons.
    Last edited by dbier57; 04-04-2008 at 12:08 AM.
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    yeah... if I get killed by a collapse or smoke inhalation, the least of my worries right before passing would have been wait, my helmet isnt NFPA approved...

    long as it protects my head, whats the big deal. Oh wait, you have the insurance adjusters who want to save every penny they can. At least the NFPA finally made it where you can have your goggles in your pocket and still meet NFPA approval.
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    I guess I was not getting my original point across so I will say it again #1 I did not mention NFPA, in my opinion NFPA cares more about mfg. than ff's. #2 It has been noted that both your federal, state, and personal benefits will be impacted by wearing a non department issued/approved piece's of ppe this does not just apply to helmets. # 3 OSHA and NIOSH are capable of actually enforcing their laws unlike NFPA this is just my two cents I know that the cairns people do not want you wearing that helmet strait from there mouths. Tradition is wonderful and we have many but you can have tradition and the protection why not have both. and avoid any of these complications.

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    We had a brother at our department who had a building collapse on him and a couple others and he was wearing a pre-impact cap N5A. Let's just say that his helmet is still sitting on the rack at the station.

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    [QUOTE=Calphenix;939422]my two cents I know that the cairns people do not want you wearing that helmet strait from there mouths. QUOTE]

    If they didn't want you to wear them, why would they come in 2 adjustable sizes??? "Strait" is straight! Interesting that you work for a competing helmet mfg.????

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    That's why I wear my annoying traffic vest.
    Yep, same here

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    [QUOTE=ehs7554;939492
    If they didn't want you to wear them, why would they come in 2 adjustable sizes?????[/QUOTE]

    I would venture that would be for parade or demonstration wear, not actual firefighting use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Although I am not necessarily condoning it, I am sure it is plenty safe. Just because it isn't OSHA or NFPA tested doesn't mean that it won't take a lick better than your noggin.

    Its kinda like mandating the use of a helmet at the top of a 100' aerial, its not really going to matter.
    It will help for the first 5-15 feet of the climb. There should then be a hook to hang your helmet on as you go the rest of the wat up.
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