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The address numbers that were

The address numbers that were posted on this street were confusing to say the least.
When you know that you are at the right address, yes investigate that address, breaking in if needed.
Even to this day half of the houses on the other end of this street have not even made an effort to mark their house numbers, anywhere.
WHY? Because the sentiment has been toward the head hunting and not on the root cause of the problem.
As far as punishment goes most of those fired never even got as far as the address. They were acting in their best judgement for the information they had been given.
The first in unit had at least 3 people who were unable to determine the location of the address so they continued looking in the area until the Bn. Cheif advised them to return to station. The same goes for the second in unit, when they made their way to the end of the street to turn around none of them spotted the address.
When this happens there is something more going on than negligence can explain.
Dekalb County has well defined levels of punishment. Although the Department head can at any time for any reason insist on the maximum, his lack of experience in the field and in fire services may have caused him to be over zealous.
The obvious breakdown in the system was NO ADDRESS NUMBER POSTED.
It CANNOT be explained any other way.

It can be explained if you

It can be explained if you include negligence or complacency as possibilities. I'm sorry, but I'm glad you are retired and not on my department. If these men could count and reason, they could have located the address. Assuming that they could do both, only complacency or negligence can explain their failure to act in accordance with their sworn duties. Also, to those who say the punishment is too harsh - a lady died. Enough said.

 First, it has been my

 First, it has been my experience that at the very least, contact should be made with the person who originated the call. 


Secondly,1001 things can happen between the time a person calls, and units arrive on scene, regardless of how short or long response times are. 


Additionally, if contact  cannot be made with the originator of the call, and you are on the  scene where the call came from, then it must be assumed that there is a problem until an investigation proves otherwise. As a Paramedic in NYC, I have had ESU and the FD make entry on many apartments and homes where the caller did not greet us or answer the door when we arrived. More often than not when entry was made, the caller was found incapicitated, un-conscious or even in cardiac arrest on the floor somwewhere in the home.


The in-action of the officers was irresponsible, and neglegent. Termination of the officers was just in my opinion, however I feel a lesser punishment with a stern warning is in order for the subordinates with the understanding that they also should have done the right thing. 

I cannot support the

I cannot support the firings.  There are too many avenues of punishment available to go that far on a first offense.  It seems that only one had any pryor offenses.

A lady died! These

A lady died! These firefighters did not even bother to get out of their rig! I have to ask, If that was your wife, mother, or child would you feel the same way?

The possibility that the

The possibility that the victim had succumbed to smoke or flames by the time the firefighters arrived does not detract from (at best) the poor judgement of these men. The cause of the fire has no bearing in determining the rightness or wrongness of their actions either. Once the fire started, they had a duty to protect life and property to the best of their ability. Maybe the indicated reasoning for their firing is worded to favorably, for this seems to be the sticking point for many. Maybe it should read negligence in the performance of duties and failure to obey their sworn oath, in addition to failing to obey standard operating precedures. I'm not placing blame for the victim's death. The firings are justified based on the facts presented in the official incident report.

All the misdirected anger and

All the misdirected anger and publicity could be better used to inform the public of things that may well prevent a similar tragedy in the future.If the firefighters had located the given address they certainly would have gone up the driveway to the door.  The lack of an incident command did not cause the death of this victim and the firefighters did not cause it either.  However many other factors did contribute to her death and that is where this investigation should be headed instead of head hunting.Now try to pay closer attention.       1. Anyone who does not have their address clearly marked (so that it's visible from the street) needs to do it immediately and if possible in more than one way.    2. If you are aware of out of sequence numbering or anything else unusual in an area, make it known immediately to your local fire station.  Ask them to post it in the station and notify their neighboring stations to do the same.    3. If you or anyone else you know of commonly uses an automatic garage door for entrance and exit of their home, be sure everyone in the home is aware of how to open it or take the next best exit in case the door malfunctions in an emergency.    4. Install smoke detectors throughout your home, each bedroom, each hallway, each utility area and on all floors regardless of use. Test them monthly and replace the batteries yearly. They are inexpensive and many fire departments (such as Dakalb County GA) provide them free of charge if you cannot afford them and will even install them and provide replacement batteries.    5. Keep a check on your elderly loved ones and be sure these things are done.  Also be aware of their method of use with respect to things like oxygen equipment.Any one of these things could have saved this woman's life.Rest assured the firefighters will get their due if they are negligent.  However, every firefighter I've ever met would rather fight a fire in its early stages instead of when it becomes an inferno.  No matter how lazy or tired or hungry or cold or wet or burned out they may be.  

Lets say it was a medical

Lets say it was a medical call, they identified the address, found the door to be locked, and simply left. That is basically what occurred here, except they didn't even identify the address. Read the report, houses on either side were clearly marked. Common sense would lead one to think that the house in the middle might be the correct one. Complacency is very dangerous in our profession. This tragedy is a clear example of why.

  This certainly was and

 


This certainly was and still is a tragic situation, but the vast majority of those commenting on this have no idea what they are even discussing. It has only been made worse by the injustice of the politically motivated knee jerk over-reaction perpetrated on these fire fighters by a manager who is obviously unfamiliar with fire service operations.


If Dekalb County fired every fire officer who did not properly implement the incident command system within the last 6 weeks, they would probably have to shut down the service until they could hire, train and promote several hundred firefighters. There are many reasons to fire someone but an honest mistake is not one of them.


If the firefighters had located the given address they certainly would have gone up the driveway to the door. The lack of an incident command did not cause the death of this victim and the firefighters did not cause it either. However many other factors did contribute to her death and that is where this investigation should be headed instead of head hunting.


All the misdirected anger and publicity could be better used to inform the public of things that may well prevent a similar tragedy in the future.


I would not be surprised if the remaining firefighters chose not to act as officer in the future for fear of loosing their jobs. Under this kind of scrutiny, who would want to risk it? It's hard enough to make decisions in that position without being second-guessed by everyone.

Submitted by gunner1263 on

Submitted by gunner1263 on Thu, 02/04/2010 - 20:09.

 


I understand East/West coast Fire tactics are most certainly different, however, not even doing a 360?  Confirming address?  Calling the RP to verify address?  In all fairness to the individuals involved, we can assume they didn't show up and not give a damn, but I think we can all agree that there could have been a little more "Investigation" rather than just leave the scene.  Is firing the 5 justified?  Noone knows, because we weren't there. 


 


I think that most officers are trainined to a level of understanding IC, and how it operates, functions, and in this case, it just wasnt initiated.  I feel for the individuals involved and can only imagine the grief they must have, that might be punishment alone, lets all try to learn from this and see if these things can be averted in the future....


 


I can see where one says lack of an Incident Command did not kill anyone, however, lack of an Incident Command on this specific Incident, didn't save an individual who relied on her "Fire Dept" to do their job.


 


Im not defending the deceased family, rather, pointing out there is room for improvement. 


 


I wish the best for the families and all FF's across the country....

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