Peter Matthews talks with Battalion Chief Grant Tinker about the normalization of deviance, often mistaken for complacency, and how deeper in the fire service and carries serious consequences.

In this episode the two discuss how it shows up in day-to-day habits at home or the fire service and can result in dangerous consequences. They talk about crew resource management, pioneered by the aviation industry and adopted by the fire service, and how aviation incidents have prompted headlines and questions about checks and balances in both industry and end-user operations.

Tinker shares real-world examples of the normalization of deviance and the need for accountability and hard discussions to prevent close calls.